Direction of "M" Division

[Palbay]

Found this at MotorAuthority.A few of my "M" pic's in the article. Thanks! PalBay http://www.motorauthority.com/bmws-m...erm-plans.html

[Alec693]

Wow that's a great article. I love how BMW is going to go into racing accessories and turbochargers.

[nmulax]

X5/X6 M

[UltimateBMW]

Wonder why they chose to post pictures of a tuned aftermarket M3 rather than stock.

I like that M will provide some track compliant components. I think that will turn out great! Esp, if you can get them all added and not have to worry about any warranty issue.

There explanation in not doing a M 7 series is directly contradicted however by the X5 and X6 M cars. They should of simply said there is no market for a M 7 series car.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Wonder why they chose to post pictures of a tuned aftermarket M3 rather than stock.

I like that M will provide some track compliant components. I think that will turn out great! Esp, if you can get them all added and not have to worry about any warranty issue.

There explanation in not doing a M 7 series is directly contradicted however by the X5 and X6 M cars. They should of simply said there is no market for a M 7 series car.

if there is a market for a S amg theres a market for a m7

[iamwiz82]

There was a completely camo'ed X6 by my house yesterday evening. I was assuming it was an X6 M. No camera phone, unfortunately.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

if there is a market for a S amg theres a market for a m7

Not necessarily. M is more of a raw performance badge. I would say AMG is more of a show of force badge. My opinion anyways.

Not saying AMG lacks performance, and I don't want an M vs. AMG fight. I just implying that they are not the same philosophy.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Not necessarily. M is more of a raw performance badge. I would say AMG is more of a show of force badge. My opinion anyways.

Not saying AMG lacks performance, and I don't want an M vs. AMG fight. I just implying that they are not the same philosophy.

im not saying youre wrong

but people who buy S amgs arent in it for the power or performance...its more of a status symbol to them

im sure the same would be said for the m7

[Deda]

Crimson92, i agree with both your posts...however i am happy for x5/x6M...it is going to be interesting to see.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Deda

Crimson92, i agree with both your posts...however i am happy for x5/x6M...it is going to be interesting to see.

i actually wouldnt mind seeing a x5m x6m .....again if merc has a ml63, cayenne turbo, jeep srt8

there def. is a market for M X series.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Wonder why they chose to post pictures of a tuned aftermarket M3 rather than stock.

I like that M will provide some track compliant components. I think that will turn out great! Esp, if you can get them all added and not have to worry about any warranty issue.

There explanation in not doing a M 7 series is directly contradicted however by the X5 and X6 M cars. They should of simply said there is no market for a M 7 series car.

Yes hypocritcal....

[slipknot]

well its obviously u cant compare amg and m , mercedes has more models and engines and amgs than bmw , its like comparing the big show and rey mysterio , they can do anything csl amg whatever , s class amg while bmw cant , take a look at SLR...thats the best damn looking car!..bmw...nah concept this concept that , no m this no m that , piss off M....u say that 7 is way too heavy to be M....oh I suppose X6 is light as mini and X5...wow

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by slipknot

well its obviously u cant compare amg and m , mercedes has more models and engines and amgs than bmw , its like comparing the big show and rey mysterio , they can do anything csl amg whatever , s class amg while bmw cant , take a look at SLR...thats the best damn looking car!..bmw...nah concept this concept that , no m this no m that , piss off M....u say that 7 is way too heavy to be M....oh I suppose X6 is light as mini and X5...wow

i had a hard time reading this, but i think i agree.

[Deda]

Yes,thats true.

[vAnt826]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

im not saying youre wrong

but people who buy S amgs arent in it for the power or performance...its more of a status symbol to them

im sure the same would be said for the m7

M's have been becoming the same way. Next time talk to a random M3 owner parked at the mall, see if they know anything about their car. Chances are, they don't even know what engine code/chasis code is or remember how much horsepower it has. I haven't found a M5 driver yet that didn't know his stuff though

[ik999]

//M is gradually leaning towards what amg was

and amg is gradually leaning towards what //M was

[watrob]

Originally Posted by ik999

//M is gradually leaning towards what amg was

and amg is gradually leaning towards what //M was

"M" is a long way done the alphabet from "A"mg, so there is a lot of catching up to do.

Email AMG in Antwort and ask for a pdf price list of AMG parts to put on your Merc, I have bought diffs, larger axles direct off them, try emailing M division and see what you can buy.

When I bought the AMG you could have AMG or even Brabus pick the car up from the Merc plant in Germany, make the changes, deliever it back and then they put in on the boat, try that with BMW.

Fifteen years ago you could do that with BMW M division, not anymore. I had a BMW 850 ci V12 (built on England Spec) pickup by M turned into a 6 speed manual from a auto, painted a 3 series colour and M badged, re-speced for Australia, a quarter of a million dollars later it arrived in Australia with the speedo showing in Miles not KPH so they had to send a new computer chip out.

Try that now, you ca'nt even buy a brake upgrade for a M3 from them. M is now trying to play catch up.

[josephr25]

Both AMG and M cars are too heavy to be enthusiasts cars. I'd would rather get a Porsche 997 w/ less power.

[ik999]

Originally Posted by watrob

"M" is a long way done the alphabet from "A"mg, so there is a lot of catching up to do.

Email AMG in Antwort and ask for a pdf price list of AMG parts to put on your Merc, I have bought diffs, larger axles direct off them, try emailing M division and see what you can buy.

When I bought the AMG you could have AMG or even Brabus pick the car up from the Merc plant in Germany, make the changes, deliever it back and then they put in on the boat, try that with BMW.

Fifteen years ago you could do that with BMW M division, not anymore. I had a BMW 850 ci V12 (built on England Spec) pickup by M turned into a 6 speed manual from a auto, painted a 3 series colour and M badged, re-speced for Australia, a quarter of a million dollars later it arrived in Australia with the speedo showing in Miles not KPH so they had to send a new computer chip out.

Try that now, you ca'nt even buy a brake upgrade for a M3 from them. M is now trying to play catch up.

you're 100% right, but I was talking more about the general philosophy of car making

look at the black series cars - they are like the antithesis of what amg philosophy was 15 years ago.

M's direction hasn't changed nearly as much, but it still shows. V8 M3, turbocharging future, active suspension, etc. M cars are slowly leaning towards that direction, stepping out of what M is traditionally known for.

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by Kampfer

Both AMG and M cars are too heavy to be enthusiasts cars. I'd would rather get a Porsche 997 w/ less power.

so an enthusiast can't like a "heavy" car? i don't follow the logic...

[ToddPhilly]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

so an enthusiast can't like a "heavy" car? i don't follow the logic...

I can't speak for Kampfer, but I think I know where he was going with this. M stands for Motorsport correct? I guess the origin of M was small, light cars with reasonable power and a proper focus on handling, road feel, and just all-around great driving dynamics. Over the years, BMW's focus of the M brand really had to change a bit to keep up with the HP wars MB and now Audi (and even a few other jap & american competitors) are bringing on. I think M has done a great job of maintaining their focus on handling and driving dynamics, but lets face it, you won't see an X6 (M) or X5 (M) or even very many M5s or M6s out on a track. So 'Motorsport' is more of a badge than an intended use for the vehicle. BMW's M division has trended to produce vehicles more like MB's AMG over the recent years. Not exactly like them, but trending in that direction. In MB's defense, they've really stepped up their game with recent AMG entries. But at the end of the day, neither BMW nor MB make what I would call a true car intended for motorsport use. Porsche has stayed a bit more true to their origin than BMW's M division. It's not really a bad thing for BMW per se. It's just a difference in the market each company is going after. I would love to see BMW produce a true track monster like a 911 GT3. I just don't think it's going to happen.

[watrob]

I was talking to my dealer principal today and he asked about my thoughts on the M3 as he knows I also own AMG cars as well as other BMW's.

The topic ended up on brakes and he said he felt that M division will be heading towards making sports/track option equipment available for there M cars. It sounded like that was the way M had to go due to market forces.

I think the market forces are the actual dealers wanting these option the same as other manufacturers have for there cars. Think there is definitely someting in the wind. I remember in the begining of the year he said there would be option for the 1 series, brakes, sports seats etc and that happenned.

Oh yeh, one other thing, I said no CSL M3 V8, he turned around as he walked away and said "watch this space".

Merc sold either 40 or was it 50 CLK AMG Black Series in Australia this year at $300k each and there's none left as I was offered one on the pre-order. I think the CSL M3 e46 we only got 20 in Australia when they were released some years back and they all got snapped up as well. I think there could be a lot of pressure on BMW to produce the CSL because Merc's AMG Black Series is selling well.

They price these cars that high and pre-sell by orders only they cannot loose anyway. Also manufacturers like BMW & Merc have to get smarter in this tight economy and credit squeeze and supply individual cars to clients as they cannot afford loose one customer, they have to keep sales moving along and just droping the price is not something these companies do anyway. What tends to happen here is we get more option in the car as standard equipment but without price increases.

Yes it will be very interesting times ahead and with this economy we should all benefit, like one of our forum members said "its a good time to buy a new car", specially over the next 6 months, if you cannot make a deal now you never will.

My $0.02