E85/Ethanol Thread

[AUTiger13]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I appreciate the efforts, as do others, I'm sure. I'd be curious to see a similar chart for E85 and 91 octane.

Here is the chart for pump E85 & 91 octane. Looks like you need 6 gallons of E85 to come up with a mix of around 96 octane. Didn't someone say not too long ago that they experienced troubles when they added 3 gallons of E85 to their tank though?

PS: In the chart - please disregard the 2nd column title for both charts - even though it says 93, I changed the variable to 91.

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by AUTiger13

Here is the chart for pump E85 & 91 octane. Looks like you need 6 gallons of E85 to come up with a mix of around 96 octane. Didn't someone say not too long ago that they experienced troubles when they added 3 gallons of E85 to their tank though?

PS: In the chart - please disregard the 2nd column title for both charts - even though it says 93, I changed the variable to 91.

Have been using 4-4.5 gallons without issue for a few weeks.

[MFL]

With my test tune from BPM, my car RIPS. It will step out in third gear presently.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by MFL

With my test tune from BPM, my car RIPS. It will step out in third gear presently.

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by MFL

With my test tune from BPM, my car RIPS. It will step out in third gear presently.

Test tune for E85 specifically? Just got the BMWlogger software, I WANT!!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by AUTiger13

bigjae1976, thank you for that comment - I did not realize ethanol had such an affect on the seals. The only issues I've heard that I have considered being a factor would be 1) maxing out the stock injectors and running out of gas up at 7800+ and/or 2) the corrosive affect on hoses and lines (I have no idea if M3's use stainless or plastic fuel line hoses or not).

Anyway, if you say we are limited at around E10, based on the chart above (if correct), it looks like E10 is approximately 1.66 gallons of E85 based on a M3's 16.6gal (full) tank. For illustration purposes, round down to 1.5gal. That would imply ~15.1gal of premium from the pump (93 here in my case). The result would be a combined theoretical octane rating of 14.1, which is still better than 93, but falls short of the 95-96 sweet spot. It then seems that maybe E85 is more harm than good in the case of individuals wanting to boost octane to take advantage of stock timing targets, like myself.

That occurs pretty quickly with 100% ethanol...not sure what the effect of E10 or E15-20 is. Just something to be mindful of.

Different states have different requirements. For example, max ethanol content in WI is 10.49%. MN is a minimum of 10%...could be 15% plus.

EPA only regulates E10. So E15, E20 and E85 can and do vary widely. Some E85 might be E65...read carefully. This will also differ from state to state. So comparing dyno's from different ethanol sources in different states is likely not an apple to Apple comparison. What is the "best" blend in CA may yield different results in FL.

[MFL]

Test Tune for e30.

[Disturbed]

Forgive me if I'm off a bit. If I understand this thread these cars are picking up about 5-7rwhp from putting in 4gal of E85 Then finish topping off with 93oct.

[MFL]

I don't have a delta between 92 Octane/Pump and and E85, My delta posted is between a 50/50 Mix of Trick 101 and 92 Octane and an E30 Run.

[AUTiger13]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

That occurs pretty quickly with 100% ethanol...not sure what the effect of E10 or E15-20 is. Just something to be mindful of.

Different states have different requirements. For example, max ethanol content in WI is 10.49%. MN is a minimum of 10%...could be 15% plus.

EPA only regulates E10. So E15, E20 and E85 can and do vary widely. Some E85 might be E65...read carefully. This will also differ from state to state. So comparing dyno's from different ethanol sources in different states is likely not an apple to Apple comparison. What is the "best" blend in CA may yield different results in FL.

bigjae, I completely agree with what you said about state regs on pump gas, both gasoline and e85, on the ethanol content. These charts were made solely for a "best guess" scenario and not a true, 100% accurate calculator. While pump e85 can contain fluctuating amounts of ethanol, most people (knowingly or unknowingly) do have access to "pure" e85 and even e98 in some cases for only an extra dollar to 2 bucks more per gallon. I will be using non-pump e85 when testing so I can have better control in actual ethanol content.

[FogCityM3]

Is the tune designed to run with an E85 blend all the time, or is it "backwards compatible" and still produce the same power if you fill up with 91? thx

Originally Posted by MFL

With my test tune from BPM, my car RIPS. It will step out in third gear presently.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by AUTiger13

bigjae, I completely agree with what you said about state regs on pump gas, both gasoline and e85, on the ethanol content. These charts were made solely for a "best guess" scenario and not a true, 100% accurate calculator. While pump e85 can contain fluctuating amounts of ethanol, most people (knowingly or unknowingly) do have access to "pure" e85 and even e98 in some cases for only an extra dollar to 2 bucks more per gallon. I will be using non-pump e85 when testing so I can have better control in actual ethanol content.

Then I think your numbers and data will be more accurate. I'm interested to see how it turns out for you. I just wanted to get these facts out there so when someone pumps e?? thinking its E85 and doesn't get the intended results, they understand why.

[TommyLights]

Would be great if someone can test on a supercharged M. I put in 3 gallons per fill up with no ill effects and the car seems to pull much harder. I have a VF540.

[Shredicus]

I have been doing 4-5 gallons with no adverse effects for a few months now. Maybe it's the tune but I have yet to encounter an issue. Also did the spark plugs recently and they looked good for 30-50k (not sure when PO did them).

[Bashar368]

I put 3 gallons and filled up with 91 octane. When I got to a 1/4 of a tank I noticed rough idle and the exhaust sounded funny, I kept driving keeping it out of boost until I completely emptied the tank and pumped 91 again.

since then car seems to be normal

VT-625 ESS

[MFL]

I still need to dyno my latest tune.

I was at the track a month ago and was hooking well on my 275/35/18 MPSS's. Sunday, I uploaded my new tune and rolled back to the track from my hotel. First run of the day, I couldn't hook and spun them threw third gear, Ultimately I couldn't correct the fishtail and I spun it into the wall in the other lane. I should have lifted, but oh well, the damage was minor and only cosmetic.

I will get my car back next week and I will continue to document my progress.

One thing that I have noticed is that the car seems more susceptible to heat soak. Other than that, this fucker still screams.

[MFL]

Best that I could do at 3000ft of altitude and street tires was a 12.6

.434 Reaction Time
2.049 60'
12.669 1/4 Mile
110.75 Trap

These numbers are deceiving though due to traction and altitude. I'll be doing it again with drag radials in Seattle.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by AUTiger13

Here is the chart for pump E85 & 91 octane. Looks like you need 6 gallons of E85 to come up with a mix of around 96 octane. Didn't someone say not too long ago that they experienced troubles when they added 3 gallons of E85 to their tank though?

PS: In the chart - please disregard the 2nd column title for both charts - even though it says 93, I changed the variable to 91.

Not for nothing, going by octane "rating" is incredibly inaccurate -- Especially when you consider that cars running straight E85 are out powering cars with the same setups and running VP Import/C16.

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by MFL

I still need to dyno my latest tune.

I was at the track a month ago and was hooking well on my 275/35/18 MPSS's. Sunday, I uploaded my new tune and rolled back to the track from my hotel. First run of the day, I couldn't hook and spun them threw third gear, Ultimately I couldn't correct the fishtail and I spun it into the wall in the other lane. I should have lifted, but oh well, the damage was minor and only cosmetic.

I will get my car back next week and I will continue to document my progress.

One thing that I have noticed is that the car seems more susceptible to heat soak. Other than that, this fucker still screams.

I have the same tune and will be putting my car on the dyno this coming Saturday.

[Bashar368]

Is there a reason no one makes a E85 upgrade (injectors and tune)

A few of my buddies are making stupid power with E85

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Bashar368

Is there a reason no one makes a E85 upgrade (injectors and tune)

A few of my buddies are making stupid power with E85

Too much variance in E85 going from one part of the country to another. It's not like the tune would be "FlexFuel" and automatically adjust the Fueling/Ignition/etc tables for different ethanol concentrations.

[MFL]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

I have the same tune and will be putting my car on the dyno this coming Saturday.

Cool,

We're speculating the my MPSS's just didn't sit well with the DHT once they had a chance to cool down over night.

I can't wait to see another dyno though! I'll be taking mine back this weekend maybe as well. It gets out of the shop soon.