MRF X-Pipe - 24 HP/18 TQ gains OVER the Akra Evo?!? Something's in the Kool-Aid

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

That's a lot of money for that x-pipe. What justifies that price tag?

That IS a lot of money for a catless no resonator x pipe.

Originally Posted by W///

What justifies a $2600 Dinan x-pipe?

Ok, first of all, if there are any companies out there that ACTUALLY do R&D and spend the time and money on the products they make, Dinan and Akrapovic are probably two of the top ones, at least as far as our M3s go.

Secondly, the Dinan x pipe is not only made in the US, it features larger piping and 4 very hefty resonators (i.e more material and more labor). That isnt to say its not overpriced, because it is! 2700 plus shipping, tax etc make it almost 3K and thats quite a lot for SS piping.

No offense to MRF, but they are selling a product with no cats, no resonators, just piping with an X for 2K! Seriously, that x pipe will not make any more appreciable power over an ebay x pipe that sells for 500.

I also have a mastermind race x pipe sitting in my garage, and its also catless with no resonators, but new its only 1350 and is almost the exact same pipe as the MRF. Plus look at prices of other catless no resonator x pipes, show me one, other than the GT4 which sells for 2K?

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

Yeah its definitely not cheap but I'm willing to give it a shot to see if it is what its advertised to be for NA cars. I was going to post dyno runs before and after as well as my honest driving impressions and confirm weight comparisons (OEM 40lbs - MRF 19.6lbs) to share with the board.

Posts #61,75 and 94 give more technical information. The wait has been going on over 2 months with no definite date set. I may end up taking advantage of the Dinan deal if nothing is set in stone by next week.

In your opinion why is Dinan worth 2700 if its the same weight basicly as OEM, OEM/Borla like merge section, increase pipe diameter while leaving headers unchanged? I'm in the market so these are legit questions I have so if you can help its appreciated. Warranty is not in the question here because its a race part.

You are comparing apples to oranges though. The Dinan is larger piping and has 4 large resonators which all add weight of which makes no difference. The mid range of this x pipe is phenomenal. Ive run several x pipes and the dinan, while yes, overpriced, is def worth having. Plus ive run catless no resonator x pipes and the rasp they produce sounds cheap and gets very annoying. Unbecoming of a car of this stature.

Plus, the dinan is rare and will always be sought after because of who makes it and what is it and thus retain value. I wont say what I got mine for but it was also a great price, better than the 20% off sale.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Ok, first of all, if there are any companies out there that ACTUALLY do R&D and spend the time and money on the products they make, Dinan and Akrapovic are probably two of the top ones, at least as far as our M3s go.

So are you implying that MRF *doesn't" do R&D and spend time and money on their products?

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Secondly, the Dinan x pipe is not only made in the US, it features larger piping and 4 very hefty resonators (i.e more material and more labor). That isnt to say its not overpriced, because it is! 2700 plus shipping, tax etc make it almost 3K and thats quite a lot for SS piping.

MRF's x-pipes are made in the US, as well.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Seriously, that x pipe will not make any more appreciable power over an ebay x pipe that sells for 500.

Do you have any dyno proof of that or is that just speculation?

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Plus, the dinan is rare and will always be sought after because of who makes it and what is it and thus retain value.

The MRF x-pipe is rarer than the Dinan setup. But I could honestly care less about that. I'm more interested in performance, and we have 2 independently dyno'ed cars that are putting down excellent power by switching to that pipe.

Given all of that, is $2k steep for an MRF? Yup. Just like $2600 is steep for a Dinan. And whatever AK charges for an X-pipe. But as the OP states, he went from an AK X-pipe w/100 cell cats to the MRF catless, and he picked up a substantial amount of power. When asked about a catted MRF pipe, Malek advised that there was minimal power loss when they R&Ded it. Given that, I'd have to say the power gained over the AK has less to do with cats vs no cats.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

MRF's x-pipes are made in the US, as well.

Do you have any dyno proof of that or is that just speculation?


The MRF x-pipe is rarer than the Dinan setup. But I could honestly care less about that. I'm more interested in performance, and we have 2 independently dyno'ed cars that are putting down excellent power by switching to that pipe.

Its pure speculation.

It may very well be, but Dinan is a far more well known brand, and part of why they can command their prices...of which also make no difference to me.

Dynos dont mean a damn thing to me either. Show me REAL WORLD results. Faster trap speed, faster 60-130. I would all but guarantee an mrf x pipe vs an ebay one would not yield any better results. Maybe on the FI cars that need more flow, but still, unless they were tested same day, same conditions, a dyno is just that, a dyno with variables that could be skewing the results.

[pbonsalb]

Who wants to organize an x-pipe dyno day? One car runs. The other cars go on the lift one at a time and the aftermarket x-pipe is removed and fitted to the test car. In a hard day's work, at a cost of about $1000 in dyno time, we would likely determine that some x-pipes make several more hp than other x-pipes. If we use percentages, it sounds much better -- several hp might be 15-20%.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Who wants to organize an x-pipe dyno day? One car runs. The other cars go on the lift one at a time and the aftermarket x-pipe is removed and fitted to the test car. In a hard day's work, at a cost of about $1000 in dyno time, we would likely determine that some x-pipes make several more hp than other x-pipes. If we use percentages, it sounds much better -- several hp might be 15-20%.

I would love to see it.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

That IS a lot of money for a catless no resonator x pipe.



Ok, first of all, if there are any companies out there that ACTUALLY do R&D and spend the time and money on the products they make, Dinan and Akrapovic are probably two of the top ones, at least as far as our M3s go.

Secondly, the Dinan x pipe is not only made in the US, it features larger piping and 4 very hefty resonators (i.e more material and more labor). That isnt to say its not overpriced, because it is! 2700 plus shipping, tax etc make it almost 3K and thats quite a lot for SS piping.

No offense to MRF, but they are selling a product with no cats, no resonators, just piping with an X for 2K! Seriously, that x pipe will not make any more appreciable power over an ebay x pipe that sells for 500.

I also have a mastermind race x pipe sitting in my garage, and its also catless with no resonators, but new its only 1350 and is almost the exact same pipe as the MRF. Plus look at prices of other catless no resonator x pipes, show me one, other than the GT4 which sells for 2K?


You are comparing apples to oranges though. The Dinan is larger piping and has 4 large resonators which all add weight of which makes no difference. The mid range of this x pipe is phenomenal. Ive run several x pipes and the dinan, while yes, overpriced, is def worth having. Plus ive run catless no resonator x pipes and the rasp they produce sounds cheap and gets very annoying. Unbecoming of a car of this stature.

Plus, the dinan is rare and will always be sought after because of who makes it and what is it and thus retain value. I wont say what I got mine for but it was also a great price, better than the 20% off sale.

From what I've read from other owners and been told by Malek this pipe:

1. Has been build as a result of a lot of R&D and testing exclusively on the E9X M3.
2. It is also made in the USA, by hand, on a jig to eliminate deformation during welding.
3. Every single owner that has run it has claimed more power. Several have posted dyno to prove this gain over Akra (like this exact thread). You do not know how much more or less it makes than an ebay pipe and are only speculating.
4. SS321 (SS + Ti) is used and not SS304 like other x-pipe's
5. There are no proven gain's that can be attributed to the increase in the pipe diameter. You can get the same power give or take from another brand with 2.5" (or smaller .38" in Akra case)
6. If Dinan was a true race only pipe how can you claim that all the added weight is justified? Larger pipes that use the same header as stock? 4 heavy resonators really needed? I thought saving weight was the name of the game. 40 lbs to 19.6 lbs
7. connection points were designed to OEM standard to prevent leaking o ver time.

Listen, I agree 2k is a lot for a not catted non resonated x-pipe. Heck i even said so in the early pages on this thread! After learning more and talking with Malek I decided to give it a try and post my results and impressions for everyone to see on an NA car. If the gains Malek advertises at mid-range (30 WHP + 40 WTQ) are true this pipe will blow away the Dinan performance wise. I want to find out.

Dinan is my second choice as I really like all their parts but looking at their mid-section it just looks just like stock but with no cats. Larger piping is not giving the gains here, its the cat removal. If I go with Dinan it will be for quality of the product and sound as it pairs very well with many rear sections. There's a reason MRF and Gintani have seen the most gains. They have similar design traits which noticeably differ from OEM and tuners like Dinan.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Its pure speculation.

It may very well be, but Dinan is a far more well known brand, and part of why they can command their prices...of which also make no difference to me.

Dynos dont mean a damn thing to me either. Show me REAL WORLD results. Faster trap speed, faster 60-130. I would all but guarantee an mrf x pipe vs an ebay one would not yield any better results. Maybe on the FI cars that need more flow, but still, unless they were tested same day, same conditions, a dyno is just that, a dyno with variables that could be skewing the results.

Considering I'm planning on being FI, that would make a huge difference to me. And like you care less about a dyno, I could care less about a brand. That term is over-rated. As long as the product is quality, and does what I need it to do, I don't really care whose name is on it. You have your opinion, and I respect that. At the same time, unless you've personally tried the MRF, just as you said, you're speculating.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Who wants to organize an x-pipe dyno day? One car runs. The other cars go on the lift one at a time and the aftermarket x-pipe is removed and fitted to the test car. In a hard day's work, at a cost of about $1000 in dyno time, we would likely determine that some x-pipes make several more hp than other x-pipes. If we use percentages, it sounds much better -- several hp might be 15-20%.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I would love to see it.

Why?? You *just* finished saying

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Dynos dont mean a damn thing to me either.

So pick one side of the fence and stay there *lol*.

@pbonsalb, I'd volunteer after I pick up the MRF, but I don't think we have too many modified E9Xs in my area. On another note, I'm *REALLY* interested in seeing how this pipe will perform w/the Procede + Meth and appropriate tune.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

From what I've read from other owners and been told by Malek this pipe:

1. Has been build as a result of a lot of R&D and testing exclusively on the E9X M3.
2. It is also made in the USA, by hand, on a jig to eliminate deformation during welding.
3. Every single owner that has run it has claimed more power. Several have posted dyno to prove this gain over Akra (like this exact thread). You do not know how much more or less it makes than an ebay pipe and are only speculating.
4. SS321 (SS + Ti) is used and not SS304 like other x-pipe's
5. This are no proven gain's that can be attributed to the increase in the pipe diameter. You can get the same power give or take from another brand with 2.5" (or smaller .38" in Akra case)
6. If Dinan was a true race only pipe how can you claim that all the added weight is justified? Larger pipes that use the same header as stock? 4 heavy resonators really needed? I thought saving weight was the name of the game. 40 lbs to 19.6 lbs
7. connection points were designed to OEM standard to prevent leaking o ver time.

Listen, I agree 2k is a lot for a not catted non resonated x-pipe. Heck i even said so in the early pages on this thread! After learning more and talking with Malek I decided to give it a try and post my results and impressions for everyone to see on an NA car. If the gains Malek advertises at mid-range (30 WHP + 40 WTQ) are true this pipe will blow away the Dinan performance wise. I want to find out.

Dinan is my second choice as I really like all their parts but looking at their mid-section it just looks just like stock but with no cats. Larger piping is not giving the gains here, its the cat removal. If I go with Dinan it will be for quality of the product and sound as it pairs very well with many rear sections. There's a reason MRF and Gintani have seen the most gains. They have similar design traits which noticeably differ from OEM and tuners like Dinan.

Again, ANYONE can manipulate a dyno to show results. Show me faster times from one x pipe to another. In your case, unless youre 60-130 and other times dont get much faster, it hasnt made a significant enough difference to justify.
For the sake of it and fun, how about you and I with our different x pipes both run a 60-130 and see who's time comes out faster. Well pick days with similar temps and see who comes out on top time wise. Other than that, dyno numbers are meaningless.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Again, ANYONE can manipulate a dyno to show results. Show me faster times from one x pipe to another. In your case, unless youre 60-130 and other times dont get much faster, it hasnt made a significant enough difference to justify.
For the sake of it and fun, how about you and I with our different x pipes both run a 60-130 and see who's time comes out faster. Well pick days with similar temps and see who comes out on top time wise. Other than that, dyno numbers are meaningless.

Dude, your going crazy over here. If you read what I wrote you would see i'm skeptical too and want to find out for myself. That's why i'm getting it, to test it and share the results. It doesn't make sense to believe Esquire is manipulating results considering he had them done at EAS which has ZERO affiliation with MRF. I'm willing to be the test subject to give the unbiased review and results of the swap.

If your anywhere near the Carolina's we can make those runs right now with my TP set up. I don't believe you would pull away at any rate from me with your midsection. I'd really like to get some times with multiple people present so they are verified for everyone's benefit. That would actually be a lot of fun but I have a feeling your not anywhere near the location I have publicly posted as my home. We will never have similar weather unless your local.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Again, ANYONE can manipulate a dyno to show results. Show me faster times from one x pipe to another. In your case, unless youre 60-130 and other times dont get much faster, it hasnt made a significant enough difference to justify.
For the sake of it and fun, how about you and I with our different x pipes both run a 60-130 and see who's time comes out faster. Well pick days with similar temps and see who comes out on top time wise. Other than that, dyno numbers are meaningless.

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

Dude, your going crazy over here. If you read what I wrote you would see i'm skeptical too and want to find out for myself. That's why i'm getting it, to test it and share the results. It doesn't make sense to believe Esquire is manipulating results considering he had them done at EAS which has ZERO affiliation with MRF. I'm willing to be the test subject to give the unbiased review and results of the swap.

If your anywhere near the Carolina's we can make those runs right now with my TP set up. I don't believe you would pull away at any rate from me with your midsection. I'd really like to get some times with multiple people present so they are verified for everyone's benefit. That would actually be a lot of fun but I have a feeling your not anywhere near the location I have publicly posted as my home. We will never have similar weather unless your local.

I'd be happy to go for a run with my setup, which is about the cheapest route you can go (ACM test pipes + straight section instead of secondaries). And our cars are both MT too, although our wheels different.

Personally, if this thing did what it claims to do, it'd be selling like hot cakes. But obviously there's doubt (even with dynos) since the limit hasn't even been met and it's been months. I'd really like to see N/A cars run side by side.

Also, couldn't care less what it weighs to be honest. You are going to save that much on just the xpipes alone.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

Dude, your going crazy over here. If you read what I wrote you would see i'm skeptical too and want to find out for myself. That's why i'm getting it, to test it and share the results. It doesn't make sense to believe Esquire is manipulating results considering he had them done at EAS which has ZERO affiliation with MRF. I'm willing to be the test subject to give the unbiased review and results of the swap.

If your anywhere near the Carolina's we can make those runs right now with my TP set up. I don't believe you would pull away at any rate from me with your midsection. I'd really like to get some times with multiple people present so they are verified for everyone's benefit. That would actually be a lot of fun but I have a feeling your not anywhere near the location I have publicly posted as my home. We will never have similar weather unless your local.

And I doubt that my car with the MRF x pipe would pull away anymore than mine would right now, that was my point.

Ill even buy one of his x pipes just to prove that point if I have to. I will bet the price of it that is wont make substantial power over what I already make.

Theres comes point, especially with NA cars where you have diminishing returns. Deleting the primary cats alone yield 95% of the gains you will get from this car as a bolt on NA car anyway. Im not worried about another 5 whp that wont make any difference.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

And I doubt that my car with the MRF x pipe would pull away anymore than mine would right now, that was my point.

Ill even buy one of his x pipes just to prove that point if I have to. I will bet the price of it that is wont make substantial power over what I already make.

Hop on the list! If it is what it claims to be there will be no better person to advocate for the gain than you. Give Malek a call and ask how long until production starts after you place your order I'm sure the guys on the list would appreciate it. The wait is killing me at this stage. Like a missing family member its the unknown that's the worst part.

If you don't like it someone will gladly take it off your hands in no time.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by W///

I'd be happy to go for a run with my setup, which is about the cheapest route you can go (ACM test pipes + straight section instead of secondaries). And our cars are both MT too, although our wheels different.

Personally, if this thing did what it claims to do, it'd be selling like hot cakes. But obviously there's doubt (even with dynos) since the limit hasn't even been met and it's been months. I'd really like to see N/A cars run side by side.

I'm down for that. We know anyone with a GoPro?

Not too many have been made so only a few people have them and of those almost none drive NA and actually are active on this forum. A side by side 60-130 run with NA cars would be perfect. Even better that the one not running MRF is fully catless. I'm confident this day is soon coming and the cool fall air will only make it even better.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

No argument there, and I agree, but Dinan and Akra (for that matter) get away with it in part because of their reputation, and built quality (mainly Akra and the material).

Again, no argument there. The Dinan mid-pipe (although sounding awesome) is overpriced. My main concern regarding the price is the stiff competition out there, and you can find many, many x-pipes used now due to the end of the e92 platform.

Just my 2 cents...

The build quality of this mid-section far exceeds the build quality of the Dinan product. Akrapovic has excellent build quality and this goes without saying, they make a spectacular product, they always have. Yes the unit is $1999, but this is an instance where the system produces a lot of proven power on various cars vs. their previous cat-less setups. Sure, it's not made of titanium, it's made of SS321 (not cheap either), it doesn't come in a very fancy packaging box either. It is simply engineered for the S65 to make power and to be able to endure the track circuit.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

That IS a lot of money for a catless no resonator x pipe.

Ok, first of all, if there are any companies out there that ACTUALLY do R&D and spend the time and money on the products they make, Dinan and Akrapovic are probably two of the top ones, at least as far as our M3s go.

Secondly, the Dinan x pipe is not only made in the US, it features larger piping and 4 very hefty resonators (i.e more material and more labor). That isnt to say its not overpriced, because it is! 2700 plus shipping, tax etc make it almost 3K and thats quite a lot for SS piping.

No offense to MRF, but they are selling a product with no cats, no resonators, just piping with an X for 2K! Seriously, that x pipe will not make any more appreciable power over an ebay x pipe that sells for 500.

I also have a mastermind race x pipe sitting in my garage, and its also catless with no resonators, but new its only 1350 and is almost the exact same pipe as the MRF. Plus look at prices of other catless no resonator x pipes, show me one, other than the GT4 which sells for 2K?

See above for a bulk of your post and concerns. As said before, the system is engineered and designed for the S65B40. It went through nearly 2 years (3000 hours) of R&D and revisions to arrive at its final iteration. It is not a cookie cutter "ebay X" as you are referring to it.

Your claims on what this pipe will and will not do is pure speculation, while there are many members here on this forum with this pipe that make considerably more power than all their previous setups ranging from Dinan, RPI, Akrapovic, Mastermind.

The whole topic on the system being without resonators and the system cannot justify a price tag of $1999, is null. Quality resonators (such as Vibrant, or AERO) cost $30.00 $45.00 a piece. This system avoids resonators because it is a true Motorsport/Race bred system. It doesn't need resonators, and the buyers of this system want it for its power and light weight.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Again, ANYONE can manipulate a dyno to show results. Show me faster times from one x pipe to another. In your case, unless youre 60-130 and other times dont get much faster, it hasnt made a significant enough difference to justify.
For the sake of it and fun, how about you and I with our different x pipes both run a 60-130 and see who's time comes out faster. Well pick days with similar temps and see who comes out on top time wise. Other than that, dyno numbers are meaningless.

We are now discussing something entirely different here, and touching on the topic of conspiracy. A car that makes more power, will accelerate faster given all else remains equal and no other variables are changed.

I am always open to challenging other cars and setups for the fun of it and in this case, to measure a quantifiable difference.

Originally Posted by W///

Personally, if this thing did what it claims to do, it'd be selling like hot cakes. But obviously there's doubt (even with dynos) since the limit hasn't even been met and it's been months. I'd really like to see N/A cars run side by side.

We chose not to sell many of the systems. It was intended to be a limited production system and that was always its objective. There are major legal/financial reasons behind this. We also perfectly understand the price point of the system as that may be a barrier to some, especially as Team Plutonium mentioned, on an aging platform M3. However, manufacturing is not cheap here in California, neither is SS321, neither is 3000 hours of R&D.

On a side note, I'll put up my N/A 6MT M3 against any N/A M3 out there for the sake of testing.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

On a side note, I'll put up my N/A 6MT M3 against any N/A M3 out there for the sake of testing.

I'd love to see this.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

The build quality of this mid-section far exceeds the build quality of the Dinan product. Akrapovic has excellent build quality and this goes without saying, they make a spectacular product, they always have. Yes the unit is $1999, but this is an instance where the system produces a lot of proven power on various cars vs. their previous cat-less setups. Sure, it's not made of titanium, it's made of SS321 (not cheap either), it doesn't come in a very fancy packaging box either. It is simply engineered for the S65 to make power and to be able to endure the track circuit.



See above for a bulk of your post and concerns. As said before, the system is engineered and designed for the S65B40. It went through nearly 2 years (3000 hours) of R&D and revisions to arrive at its final iteration. It is not a cookie cutter "ebay X" as you are referring to it.

Your claims on what this pipe will and will not do is pure speculation, while there are many members here on this forum with this pipe that make considerably more power than all their previous setups ranging from Dinan, RPI, Akrapovic, Mastermind.

The whole topic on the system being without resonators and the system cannot justify a price tag of $1999, is null. Quality resonators (such as Vibrant, or AERO) cost $30.00 $45.00 a piece. This system avoids resonators because it is a true Motorsport/Race bred system. It doesn't need resonators, and the buyers of this system want it for its power and light weight.



We are now discussing something entirely different here, and touching on the topic of conspiracy. A car that makes more power, will accelerate faster given all else remains equal and no other variables are changed.

I am always open to challenging other cars and setups for the fun of it and in this case, to measure a quantifiable difference.



We chose not to sell many of the systems. It was intended to be a limited production system and that was always its objective. There are major legal/financial reasons behind this. We also perfectly understand the price point of the system as that may be a barrier to some, especially as Team Plutonium mentioned, on an aging platform M3. However, manufacturing is not cheap here in California, neither is SS321, neither is 3000 hours of R&D.

On a side note, I'll put up my N/A 6MT M3 against any N/A M3 out there for the sake of testing.

My post want not meant to bash you by any means. And thanks for the additional info on your x pipe, of which most is new to me.

So would you guarantee me making a substantial amount more power than my dinan/akra makes? What do you consitute as substanital power? Id be willing to try your x pipe but would do so under your own words that it will make "considerably more power than dinan or matermind". Well since I have both the dinan and mastermind x pipes, Id like to see you put your money where your mouth is and test it vs the two I have. Same car, same day and see if it truly puts down CONSIDERABLY more power.

On my own side note, the reason I prefer the dinan x pipe is partly because of the sound and those resonators do that job well. I hate raspy exhaust notes. That is one thing that plagues this car very badly with a catless exhaust...it sounds plain cheap.

[playground]

Some people say Gintani X-Pipe is the best?
MRF what do you have to say about this?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I'd love to see this.

Me too. I think that will actually help you with reaching your pre-production target Malek.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

My post want not meant to bash you by any means. And thanks for the additional info on your x pipe, of which most is new to me.

So basically you're saying that you were badmouthing a product that you didn't even take the time to research? http://www.mrfengineering.com/2011/02/mrf-velaforza/

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

So basically you're saying that you were badmouthing a product that you didn't even take the time to research? http://www.mrfengineering.com/2011/02/mrf-velaforza/

Basically thats exactly whats happening. The word finally came in today so it won't be long now before I put it to real world tests.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

So basically you're saying that you were badmouthing a product that you didn't even take the time to research? http://www.mrfengineering.com/2011/02/mrf-velaforza/

Wrong. I read that page a long time ago when the x pipe came out but that was a while ago. I knew the basic info on it but didnt know how much time was actually spent testing. Nice to know but I still doubt it will provide substantial gains over any other primary cat delete x pipe.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

The word finally came in today so it won't be long now before I put it to real world tests.

Glad you got it, b/c I'm still waiting for it