Could the M3 be the last naturally aspirated BMW sold in the US?

[mkoesel]

Here's what's left (AFAIK):

M3 (should to go to MY2013 in coupe/convertible form)
650i (should be replaced next year, and get the N63 turbo V8)
X3 (should be replaced next(this?) year and get the N55 turbo I6)
528i (coming soon)
328i (replaced for MY2013)
128i (replaced ?)
Z4 3.0i
X1? (coming soon)

The last few will probably be the last vehicles to use the naturally aspirated N52 I6. BMW is known to be working on a turbocharged inline 4 and have already said publicly that it is coming to the US. So, the questions are, will that motor replace the N52 (I think it will) and will it be spread through the model lineup before the M3 is gone (hard to say, but I think there is a good shot). The turbo 4 is supposed to be ready next year, and I would not be surprised to see it debut here on the new X1 and then proliferate quickly to the others. The wildcard might be the new 528i which may be the last to get the turbo 4, with the F10 LCI.

Anyway, it just got me thinking that we might have not only the last naturally aspirated M, but also the last naturally aspirated BMW at least for the forseeable future.

[Mark's M]

Then I guess I bought at the right time sir! As much as I love my 135, the M3's going to be that much better....and very special IMO.

[URBAN LEGEND]

For the time being yes. But let me tell you this: I had a superchargered street Camaro and it only revved to 6500 rpm. However, that thing put out 600 rwhp on a dyno jet. There was no time to look at the tach to see where it revved to while in full boost. So what I am getting to is that it doesn't matter if it revs to 9000 rpm or 5550 rpm, power is power.

I say this because many are butt hurt that so called "high revving engines" and BMW are done.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

So what I am getting to is that it doesn't matter if it revs to 9000 rpm or 5550 rpm, power is power.

I say this because many are butt hurt that so called "high revving engines" and BMW are done.

To some extent you make a point. But, would you buy a diesel M3? What about an electric M3?

[ihyln]

Actually, it does matter. It's called having a wide powerband so you aren't constantly shifting. But hey, streetlight races do matter!

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by ihyln

Actually, it does matter. It's called having a wide powerband so you aren't constantly shifting.

You are kidding right???????????

Please describe what kind of powerful cars you have owned.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

To some extent you make a point. But, would you buy a diesel M3? What about an electric M3?

Diesel M3? If it had over 500 pounds of torque then I would consider it.
Electric M3? We are heading in that direction quicker than you think. Look at the upcoming electric SLS...

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

For the time being yes. But let me tell you this: I had a superchargered street Camaro and it only revved to 6500 rpm. However, that thing put out 600 rwhp on a dyno jet. There was no time to look at the tach to see where it revved to while in full boost. So what I am getting to is that it doesn't matter if it revs to 9000 rpm or 5550 rpm, power is power.

I say this because many are butt hurt that so called "high revving engines" and BMW are done.

Agreed! Who cares about revs when the power is there.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Agreed! Who cares about revs when the power is there.

And for sure BMW doesn't care either since the new suvs don't rev as high.
Bring the low revving 550 horsepower cars.

[JCtx]

I'm glad to own the only V8 M3, and the last NA M3 as well. Having said that, I'm sure BMW could have significantly improved the efficiency of this V8. Using DI and a single TB (or even valvetronic), a taller top gear AND a weight reduction could have bumped fuel mileage A LOT on the next M3. The only advantage of a blown 6 is cost, and I'm afraid that alone was the deciding factor, but could be wrong. Even the new, relatively cheap 2011 Mustang GT is coming out with a DOHC 32V 5.0L V8 with 412 HP and 370 TQ that revs to 7K.

I much prefer NA than more power, but am sure I'm in the minority here . Until I have no more viable NA options, I won't buy a FI car, so my M3 is going to remain my first and only M car in a long time. Good day gang.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Diesel M3? If it had over 500 pounds of torque then I would consider it.

That's just like saying I will only consider an M3 if it rev's over 8000 RPM, right? What counts is not paper specs but how well it performs, so why put a limitation on engine torque?

Electric M3? We are heading in that direction quicker than you think. Look at the upcoming electric SLS...

Quicker than I think? How quick is that exactly?

Anyway, you didn't answer the question. Would you buy one?

[montreal red]

NA cars are generally more manageable on the track because the power delivery is more linear. this is important when going through a corner and rolling on the throttle as you exit the corner. you dont want a sudden surge of power, you want the power to come in a smooth curve so the car remains predictable as you power out of the corner.

this is why a lot of racing cars still stick to NA engines even though FI can give soo much more power for the same displacement.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by montreal red

NA cars are generally more manageable on the track because the power delivery is more linear. this is important when going through a corner and rolling on the throttle as you exit the corner. you dont want a sudden surge of power, you want the power to come in a smooth curve so the car remains predictable as you power out of the corner.

this is why a lot of racing cars still stick to NA engines even though FI can give soo much more power for the same displacement.

+1

Excellent analysis. I couldn't agree more.

[EJ_92606]

I've got a 335, but with all the issues with their turbos and fuel pumps and injectors, I don't think I'll buy another one. Perhaps I get the M3 for a few years while BMW figures out how to build a direct injected turbo motor and fuel pump that work.

[edcvin]

Originally Posted by montreal red

NA cars are generally more manageable on the track because the power delivery is more linear. this is important when going through a corner and rolling on the throttle as you exit the corner. you dont want a sudden surge of power, you want the power to come in a smooth curve so the car remains predictable as you power out of the corner.

this is why a lot of racing cars still stick to NA engines even though FI can give soo much more power for the same displacement.

That makes a ton of sense. I learned something new today.


-Vin

[BMdblU]

Originally Posted by ihyln

Actually, it does matter. It's called having a wide powerband so you aren't constantly shifting. But hey, streetlight races do matter!

You sound confused

A car with real torque can roll around in a higher gear without downshifting and have power at low rmps.

You on the other hand need to be at 5000rpm's to go anywhere fast

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

+1

Excellent analysis. I couldn't agree more.

I agree in general with what you are saying, but current turbo motors are much better and you can't get much more linear than the torque curve in the 335, although I haven't tracked my 335.

[330CIZHP]

Funny how GT-R fans boast about how it has a turbocharged engine and is capable around a race track even when it weighs 4000 lbs.

Fact of the matter is, the ALMS GT-R does not have anything in common with the road going GT-R. It uses a completely different 5.6 liter N/A V8 that competes in the GT1 class and is able to rev up to 9000 rpm.

When it comes to competitive race track performance, N/A high-revving is KING! It is written all over in the F458s, LP670, 997 GT3, GT1 GT-R, Lexus LF-A, Pagani Zonda F, LP560, Reventon, 599 GTB and the list goes on forever! Heck, even NASCAR muscle cars rev up to 9000 rpm all day long.

[BMW269]

No, I think the last NA BMW M will be the Z4 M with the M3 engine. I'am 80% sure it will come. And even then, I do not think BMW will completely stop NA engines.

[URBAN LEGEND]

I see more pages on this thread than snow in Maryland. And that about 28 inches in Maryland with 10 more inches coming in about 24 hours.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Levi

No, I think the last NA BMW M will be the Z4 M with the M3 engine. I'am 80% sure it will come.

I am at least as sure that it won't. Care to place a friendly wager on it?

And even then, I do not think BMW will completely stop NA engines.

Which US-bound engines will be N/A?

[BMW269]

The reason I am so sure about the Z4 M is that there is a Z4 GT3, and this car has to have a street version to be homologated. Do you remember the limited serie of M3 GTR with its M5 V8?