Looking for a supercharger kit for e92 m3

[mikewads]

Originally Posted by termsheet

I just installed the ESS VT-575 a few weeks ago. I was doing the same research you are about 2-3 months ago and this is what I found. There are basically 4 kits out now. GPower from Germany, ESS from Arizona/Norway, AA from Florida and Gintani from SoCal. VF is also developing a kit, but I don't believe you can buy it. There may be more. Again, this is my research and it may not be completely accurate.

Several GPower owners around the world have reported motor failures including a couple in SoCal. I do not know if the flaw in this kit has been remedied but I read enough stories on the topic that I decided to stay away from GPower simply because I value reliability above all else.

If you read enough posts, including other forums, you will learn that there is a lot of drama between the ESS camp and the Gintani camp. In short, the Gintani camp accuses the ESS camp of inflating dyno numbers arguing that their kits don't produce as much power as advertised. There is also some dispute from Powerchip that the Gintani software was developed as a derivative of the GPower software. This arises out of a former Powerchip employee leaving to start OE Tuning who provides software for Gintani. Some believe that a couple of Gintani cars had failed motors and attributed the failures to the Gintani kits or the OE Software. There is more, but my version of someone else's bad drama won't help you find out which kit is best for you so I'll leave it at that.

The amount of time people spend on these forums defending the kit they bought and attacking the others led me to the realization that no one on these boards will probably ever agree on the "best kit". So, I made a few phone calls to try to develop my own opinion.

The Gintani customers on this board rave about their service. I am in SoCal so I liked the idea of doing business with a local shop that has a good reputation. I had a good conversation with Gintani about their kit. They have a meth option which I like because it means more power on our crappy 91 gas. The negative takeaways for me were 1) They had installed less than 10 kits 2) They tune all sorts of cars besides BMW (I like focus) and 3) At the time they didn't even have a website (they did have a facebook page). For me the lack of a website made me question just how serious they were as a company. I just checked and they do have a website now.

I also called ESS. I liked that all ESS did was BMW. During our call Roman said they had over 60 e90/92/93 kits installed and had not had one reported engine failure. That one statement carried a lot of weight with me because again, I value reliability.

After speaking with both companies I feel like I could have done business with either one. Both seemed very knowledgable, Gintani perhaps a bit more enthusiastic. I think both companies will stand behind their products. I just had a little more confidence in the ESS kit because of their BMW only focus and the number of installs. I just wish they were local. Also, I was not trying to squeeze every last HP out of the car. My thinking was that even if it is true that the Gintani kit produces a bit more power and the ESS numbers are inflated, I didn't care because I value power less than I value reliability. This is why there are different kits for different people.

Shortly after I purchased the ESS kit, AA announced their kit. Again, I like the fact that they have a meth option. I also know they thoroughly test their kits having had so much experience supercharging e46s. I would have given AA a hard look had the kit been available when I was ordering. Specifically I would have probed on how many kits had been tested, installed, etc. to gauge what kind of reliability I could expect.

Finally, different people value different things.

Some want the absolute most HP because they are going to the drag strip, rocking vBoxes down the toll road or mexico, or some other reason. I think all other things being equal, meth equipped kits will make more power on bad gas. At this point no one really knows which kit makes the most power because no one has used the same gas on the same dyno on the same day with the same supporting mods on each of the different kits. It's all hearsay with uncontrolled variables. There is someone trying to organize a dyno day with representation from each company, but as one might expect even this has created loads of drama. You will be shocked to learn that getting all of the different companies to show up on the same day is proving difficult. Motives are being questioned by all parties and it's the customers that lose. It's too bad because we all want to know that the best mods are for the price and our individual tuning objectives. Since I would have loved knowing which kit does produce the most power, all other things being equal, when I was buying, I will try to make my car available if the dyno day ever comes together as one example of an ESS VT-575.

Some people are tight on cash and are looking for the most bang for the buck. I think the ESS VT-525 kit shines in the value category.

Some people care about how the kit looks. Appearance is subjective. I could care less what the kit looks like because I don't show off my engine.

Others, like me, care about reliability. At the time of my purchase, with the information I had, I felt like ESS had the best probability of being reliable. So that is the kit I bought. The right kit for you will depend on which factors you value. Do your own detective work. You may care about something I haven't even thought about. Anyway, hope that helps.

Great write up! It was like reading the M3 Supercharger/Forum Cliff Notes.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by termsheet

Some believe that a couple of Gintani cars had failed motors and attributed the failures to the Gintani kits or the OE Software.

The Gintani customers on this board rave about their service. I am in SoCal so I liked the idea of doing business with a local shop that has a good reputation. I had a good conversation with Gintani about their kit. They have a meth option which I like because it means more power on our crappy 91 gas. The negative takeaways for me were

1. Just wanted to state that since production i know for a fact not 1 Gintani car has had a failed motor. Just wanted to say that, without getting into the other drama, cause this is a fact.

2. Their service is phenominal, everyone will tell you that!


Good luck with your purchase! Im sure you will love the power of the SC regardless of what company you go with. They all will do their job well.

[m33]

Originally Posted by Bob MG

I heard that the ESS kits are unbelievably awesome!
Nothing but the best

Bruno knows best

It has an exhilarating effect on your cheekbones which in return burns calories = weight loss > more power to the ground

[m33]

[QUOTE=DD GT3 RD;7817867]1. Just wanted to state that since production i know for a fact not 1 Gintani car has had a failed motor. Just wanted to say that, without getting into the other drama, cause this is a fact.

2. Their service is phenominal, everyone will tell you that!


Good luck with your purchase! Im sure you will love the power of the SC regardless of what company you go with. They all will do their job well.[/
really ?
How many people are driving around with gintani SC'd kits ? I only know of Drew
Could be wrong

[TheKosherStogie]

im glad you like trying to take little punches at a company, they are a smaller and newer...but that doesnt mean anything. Everyone has got to start somewhere. Even ESS was there at a point, and i dont know maybe they had A-holes like you trying to bring them down, if so im sorry...it sucks a good growing car company/tuner has to put up with this crap. You should be a real car fan, and support healthy competition, it is what drives companies to advance there products. ie: ferrari and lambo...dont hate each other but discuss how they challenge each other and make each other advance.

I hope you can change your outlook one day. Enjoy your kit, and try not to have too much hate for anyone.

ricky, drew, brian, dean, alex, josh, joseph, mine is being installed on someone else's car....
there was 1 installed in the other day somewhere pretty special...details will be out soon im sure

[m33]

1)Keep the Ahole comments to yourself bud not a wise comment !
2) my comment was honest and unintended at anyone nor any company ! As far as I know only drew is posting review s, videos and feedbacks of how the Gintani kit is ... The rest of the crew you outlined are the ( uh huh , yup , dats right , yeah , wanna make a bet , I told you so & I swear commanders )
Get the kit installed on your own car do some tests and or share your actual experience with the kit and then point the finger ! Talk is cheap .......

[m33]

Even if someone from Gintani wanted to chim in they would refer to drew as to what and how the kit does!
Yes everyone starts somewhere when starting off but the company proves itself and climbs up the latter like everyone else.....
Have some class and think before you type

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by m33

1)Keep the Ahole comments to yourself bud not a wise comment !
2) my comment was honest and unintended at anyone nor any company ! As far as I know only drew is posting review s, videos and feedbacks of how the Gintani kit is ... The rest of the crew you outlined are the ( uh huh , yup , dats right , yeah , wanna make a bet , I told you so & I swear commanders )
Get the kit installed on your own car do some tests and or share your actual experience with the kit and then point the finger ! Talk is cheap .......

well, i said "a-hole" cause you typically are in gintani attack mode...from what ive seen. Im sure in person your a nice guy, just everyone online between these 2 companys tend to hate each other which needs not be.

the "un huh, yep, dats right" are not gintani...you shouldn't judge a company off some of its customers...who maybe be A-holes as well.

And I had the kit installed on my car! I posted up my VBOX runs, independent dyno, went to the drag strip, racetrack, car was in several magazines, made a few videos, and wrote reviews!!!

[IMG]

wow,lots of heat

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by m33

Even if someone from Gintani wanted to chim in they would refer to drew as to what and how the kit does!
Yes everyone starts somewhere when starting off but the company proves itself and climbs up the latter like everyone else.....
Have some class and think before you type

And that is what they are doing. Nothing unclassy about me expressing how i feel you act toward them. I didnt insult you, just commented on how i feel you behave towards them.

Originally Posted by img

wow,lots of heat

no, typically its a million times worse! were acting like sophisticated gents compared to the normal! Can u pass the tea?

[Meff]

Sometimes it feels like these threads are an episode of the "Real Housewives of Supercharger County"

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by Meff

Sometimes it feels like these threads are an episode of the "Real Housewives of Supercharger County"

Lucky I'm not involved this time

I'm

But I'm

So

[Orange fever]

I would go with a company that included a "full replacement" ( 1-3) year warranty on all the parts =)
im on the same boat, i seen all the kits in action /// except AA and Dinan

1) Kit needs to be reliable
2) Warranty plus customer service
3) Power ( Numbers )
4) Price
The List :
Gpower
Ess
Gintani
Dinan "Stroker"
VF
AA

Not in order

G/L on your Pick /// ---------------

[cheesy9]

Which of the kits have blow-off valve(s)? (either included or as an option/add-on).

I know AA does, but I'm not sure about the others.

Maybe it's superficial, but I love the sound of BOVs

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by termsheet

I just installed the ESS VT-575 a few weeks ago. I was doing the same research you are about 2-3 months ago and this is what I found. There are basically 4 kits out now. GPower from Germany, ESS from Arizona/Norway, AA from Florida and Gintani from SoCal. VF is also developing a kit, but I don't believe you can buy it. There may be more. Again, this is my research and it may not be completely accurate.

Several GPower owners around the world have reported motor failures including a couple in SoCal. I do not know if the flaw in this kit has been remedied but I read enough stories on the topic that I decided to stay away from GPower simply because I value reliability above all else.

If you read enough posts, including other forums, you will learn that there is a lot of drama between the ESS camp and the Gintani camp. In short, the Gintani camp accuses the ESS camp of inflating dyno numbers arguing that their kits don't produce as much power as advertised. There is also some dispute from Powerchip that the Gintani software was developed as a derivative of the GPower software. This arises out of a former Powerchip employee leaving to start OE Tuning who provides software for Gintani. Some believe that a couple of Gintani cars had failed motors and attributed the failures to the Gintani kits or the OE Software. There is more, but my version of someone else's bad drama won't help you find out which kit is best for you so I'll leave it at that.

The amount of time people spend on these forums defending the kit they bought and attacking the others led me to the realization that no one on these boards will probably ever agree on the "best kit". So, I made a few phone calls to try to develop my own opinion.

The Gintani customers on this board rave about their service. I am in SoCal so I liked the idea of doing business with a local shop that has a good reputation. I had a good conversation with Gintani about their kit. They have a meth option which I like because it means more power on our crappy 91 gas. The negative takeaways for me were 1) They had installed less than 10 kits 2) They tune all sorts of cars besides BMW (I like focus) and 3) At the time they didn't even have a website (they did have a facebook page). For me the lack of a website made me question just how serious they were as a company. I just checked and they do have a website now.

I also called ESS. I liked that all ESS did was BMW. During our call Roman said they had over 60 e90/92/93 kits installed and had not had one reported engine failure. That one statement carried a lot of weight with me because again, I value reliability.

After speaking with both companies I feel like I could have done business with either one. Both seemed very knowledgable, Gintani perhaps a bit more enthusiastic. I think both companies will stand behind their products. I just had a little more confidence in the ESS kit because of their BMW only focus and the number of installs. I just wish they were local. Also, I was not trying to squeeze every last HP out of the car. My thinking was that even if it is true that the Gintani kit produces a bit more power and the ESS numbers are inflated, I didn't care because I value power less than I value reliability. This is why there are different kits for different people.

Shortly after I purchased the ESS kit, AA announced their kit. Again, I like the fact that they have a meth option. I also know they thoroughly test their kits having had so much experience supercharging e46s. I would have given AA a hard look had the kit been available when I was ordering. Specifically I would have probed on how many kits had been tested, installed, etc. to gauge what kind of reliability I could expect.

Finally, different people value different things.

Some want the absolute most HP because they are going to the drag strip, rocking vBoxes down the toll road or mexico, or some other reason. I think all other things being equal, meth equipped kits will make more power on bad gas. At this point no one really knows which kit makes the most power because no one has used the same gas on the same dyno on the same day with the same supporting mods on each of the different kits. It's all hearsay with uncontrolled variables. There is someone trying to organize a dyno day with representation from each company, but as one might expect even this has created loads of drama. You will be shocked to learn that getting all of the different companies to show up on the same day is proving difficult. Motives are being questioned by all parties and it's the customers that lose. It's too bad because we all want to know that the best mods are for the price and our individual tuning objectives. Since I would have loved knowing which kit does produce the most power, all other things being equal, when I was buying, I will try to make my car available if the dyno day ever comes together as one example of an ESS VT-575.

Some people are tight on cash and are looking for the most bang for the buck. I think the ESS VT-525 kit shines in the value category.

Some people care about how the kit looks. Appearance is subjective. I could care less what the kit looks like because I don't show off my engine.

Others, like me, care about reliability. At the time of my purchase, with the information I had, I felt like ESS had the best probability of being reliable. So that is the kit I bought. The right kit for you will depend on which factors you value. Do your own detective work. You may care about something I haven't even thought about. Anyway, hope that helps.

Great write up, nice contribution to the forum.

Originally Posted by Meff

Sometimes it feels like these threads are an episode of the "Real Housewives of Supercharger County"

LOL

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by skierman64

Great write up, nice contribution to the forum.

+ 1

I started a thread however there was not much interest in commenting, however the points raised show how different each kit is, and how each difference appeals to different consumers

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408198

[KaHo]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

Stay tuned for the VF- Engineering kit

Dang!! I am waiting....

[MspiredM3]

My vote goes with Gintani hands down. They have proven to be most powerful and extremely reliable.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I know you know where to find the Dyno Database, so I think you might want to check it because it could be very helpful before giving out advice.

I'm still pretty sure that 132 MPH in the 1/4 mile is faster than 131 MPH, and 604 whp SAE corrected on a dynojet and stock internals is also higher than 601 whp SAE corrected on a dynojet and stock internals.

Dyno Database:
http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/DynoDB.html

604 whp: http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=191
601 whp: http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=233

It should be noted - I did 11.4 @ 130MPH on the Vbox after dynoing 515whp, the Korean ESS car did 11.4 @ 132MPH with 606whp, this is one example of why dyno's mean very little to me. Anyway you slice it that Korean car is moving and has a nice kill list as well, I'd love to see those vids and his Vbox graphs.

FWIW I hit 131MPH at a track, after this run I dynoed and hit 570whp, FWIW generally the Vox reads 1mph higher than the track.

[AJ@ESS]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Two different screen names on those korea cars. I'm not sure if that means they are different cars. But it doesn't change anything, MSpired stands corrected on both counts.

There are currently 3 Korean cars running the VT2, the 4th one is installed next week.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Two different screen names on those korea cars. I'm not sure if that means they are different cars. But it doesn't change anything, MSpired stands corrected on both counts.



At the Mojave andTexas Mile, the speed is measured as an average of 1-Mile, and 1-Mile minus 132 feet (or something like that...I'm not going to look up the exact distance). When I used my vBox at Mojave, you'll recall my official time was 181.8 MPH, but my vBox time was 182 and change. However, when I calculated my speed with the vBox data using the same formula as the official rules, I also calculated 181.8 MPH (I think it was actually 181.895 MPH). I believe I read that the 1/4 uses a similar technique, but is the average of the 1/4 and 1/4 mile minus 60 feet. Maybe you could confirm that since you're the resident expert on that stuff. If that's correct, then you could definitely use your vBox to still calculate an official timeslip; and yes, it would be lower than the final speed.

It appears Mike is clairvoyant lol, I hit 11.25 @ 133.3MPH, 91 + Meth, this morning.

I'm sure you could calculate it and be quite accurate, but generally in the community 1/4 mile ET's and Traps are not accepted from Vbox runs as "official," you need an actual slip, but of course we can measure here to see how the car is performing.

[m33]

What's the common whp needed for a 130 mph trap ?