M3 drawbacks

[techimo]

Well I rented an e92 M3 with 9,000 miles on it and drove it 150 miles today. My initial post was based on a 5 mile test drive with a sales guy. This time, I took the car out on the highway and up in the twisty two lane mountain roads of Napa county so this was a much better test.

Wow this is an amazing car. I "get" all the comments in this thread now. The engine is sublime - it has limitless power, which reminds me of the 997 turbo but to me, it's maybe even a bit more responsive with the M settings enabled than the Porsche and feels more sure footed and better balanced. The handling in either normal or sport around twisty corners is incredible not to mention the growl of the V8 in 2nd gear at 7500rpm.

The steering wheel thickness no longer bothers me, nor does the hood bump. The ride quality is great, the engine/V8 is great.

I really enjoy the quality of the interior as well. The leather definitely feels and looks nicer than the 335i.

This car screams "DRIVE ME FAST". I found myself going full throttle from lights and wanting to gun it up to 90 on every on ramp. Driving at 65 on the highway was torture, boring, the car was urging me to stomp on it. It felt like the car just wasn't content at <90mph.

At 100mph+ the car shines - amazing limitless pull, amazing sound.

The torque issue really doesn't bother me as long as I keep it in the right gear, 3k RPM or so minimum for power.

The '08 idrive bothers me. It is clunky clunky clunky. Maybe it takes some getting used to as others have said but damn.

As good as it is, is this the car for me, as a daily driver, that probably won't ever see a track nor the Napa county twisties on a regular basis? Probably not:

-This car has way more power than I can use since I'm not driving around at 150mph, and I'm tempted to use it all on a daily basis. That's going to get me into trouble for damn sure - let the tickets pile on. Plus, when I can't use the power it feels frustrating in this car -- i.e. stuck behind cars on two lane roads going 50 mph for 30 minutes is torture. And I can't use the power when anyone else is in the car because it will totally freak them out.

-The gas mileage does bother me. I ate up 3/4 of a tank in under 200 miles and averaged 14.3 mpg. I'm used to much better mileage in my 330i. Yes I know I was driving more aggressively than would be normal.

-I do feel like it is more work to drive the M3 than the 335i or my 330i. More rewarding in the twisties yes, but more work the rest of the time. I think this is due to its crispier clutch and transmission, and throttle response, plus the high revving V8 wanting to always be in the mid-rpm range.

-Some have said that the cabin/road noise is low, but I find it to be a bit high and tiring, for me. The engine sound and feel, while fantastic when driving aggressively, does add to fatigue a bit on the highway.

I think the M3 is a bit too much car for me right now. Maybe a bit too big of a leap from my e46 330i. Maybe I'm a better fit for the quick but more docile 335i as an interim step, so that when I adapt to it, I can more fully appreciate all that the M3 can do, down the road.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by techimo

I think the M3 is a bit too much car for me right now.

Not to make you feel like a wimp, but my sister has a new M3 as her daily driver.

[techimo]

That's cool, I just prefer more of a relaxed experience. The M3 is an awesome car and the power is addicting.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by techimo

I think the M3 is a bit too much car for me right now. Maybe a bit too big of a leap from my e46 330i. Maybe I'm a better fit for the quick but more docile 335i as an interim step, so that when I adapt to it, I can more fully appreciate all that the M3 can do, down the road.

OMG, you loved it and then you say this. Do you withdraw from sex, just when it gets good??? This is the same kind of thing. Now that you "get it" about the M3, you may miss the chance to own one if you don't act now.

To assure that you can handle the car, add to the fun and either take Performance Center delivery or take a Performance Driving Course from BMW. It's great fun, it'll make you a safer driver and you'll fully understand the potential of your car.

Dave

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by pepper

your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai

no offense as my girl is..she says I like the 335 but why pay so much when I can get a VW for cheaper..... HAHAHA


anyways, hyundai will always be hyundai. kinda like the Z06, it will always be a chevy.

Wow.

In a single post, you've managed to convey everything everyone needs to know about you.

Namely, you've gotten across that you're a prejudiced, IQ-challenged badge whore.

That's a lot of information in a single post.

Bravo.

Bruce

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by FStop7

Can we restrict the M3 forums to owners only, please?

You must be proud of the M3-owning author of note 78, right?

Yeah. I guess incest is best.

Bruce

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by techimo

That's cool, I just prefer more of a relaxed experience. The M3 is an awesome car and the power is addicting.

C'mon....Go for the M3 bro! hahah...you can't go wrong with either one, if the 335 fits you better and is more of what your looking for, I'd say go for it, its one of the best cars out there dollar for dollar. The great thing about the M3, at least IMO when I drove it is how it can be sleek and subtle; and within seconds can turn into an absolute beast that begs you to push it faster and harder. Again, its entirely up to you and what your looking for; good luck with your purchase man.

[Advskier]

Originally Posted by dcstep

We're both in the Rocky Mountain region, maybe I could show you a thing or two about handling at an autocross or track day. I'd love to see who has "a clue" about handling. Of course, we'd be driving our M3s.

As I said, the X3 I drove was a base level with leather, NOT "M" suspension and 19" wheels. What does that option cost, BTW? No doubt you can option out an X3 beyond the loaner I used. The brakes, in normal use, felt about the same in both vehicles. I've not done laps in either and don't plan to.

I thought that was your GF's Santa Fe not yours. Is it a Limited? Why would you buy an X3 for performance??? The leather is very nice in mine.

Notice that I haven't called you a moron, yet. You can join in the discussion, but I'd appreciate a refrain from calling me names. Some shithead questioned my ethnicity up the thread, so your implication that I'm a moron if I don't agree with you is perhaps more disgusting than usual because of his stupidity.

Dave

The Santa Fe is my GF's. We did look at the limited a few months ago. It's a great car for the money. Nowhere near the X3.
When I purchased the X3 it was to use as my only car. I forget how much the M suspension with 19" wheels where. In hindsight I would have skipped the wheels (because of snow here) but when you get the M suspension they raise the top speed. The X3 is a great all around vehicle, and there is a reason BMW markets it as a Sports Activity Vehicle.
Since you live in the region, you know how mountainous our roads are. I take my car up the canyons every weekend (to ski) and love the way it handles. It doesn't have any problems keeping up with all but the most aggressive drivers.You mention the transmission in the Santa Fe not being up to the X3's in auto.... I can leave mine in auto going up the canyons, not even put it in sport mode, and it still works great.

As to your question about wanting performance in an X3, why get it in any car? Porsche, LR, Mercedes, and others are making performance SUV's. Seriously, if you are into Santa Fe's, you don't get it. Because they are basically cheap wagons with a lot of features for a relatively good price.
Nothing about their ride, quality of features, brakes, engine, transmission, interior noise, handling, etc. compares.

As to meeting you on the racetrack, if we can do it on bikes I'd be glad to. It's been years since I've autocrossed, but I spend plenty of time on motorcycles at Miller Motorsports Park.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Advskier

As to meeting you on the racetrack, if we can do it on bikes I'd be glad to. It's been years since I've autocrossed, but I spend plenty of time on motorcycles at Miller Motorsports Park.

I'm totally not a biker, but I haven't autocrossed since the mid 1990s either. I bought the M3 to get back into it and maybe do some track days. If there's a way, I'd love to meet you and have a friendly challenge. I'm Dave Stephens and live in Denver.

Oh, I "get" the X3, particularly with a better suspension than stock, it's just not a high priority for me. If I skied every weekend, then I'd probably value its virtues (as optioned, not stock) more like you. My wife, OTOH, doesn't "get" the X3, other than the label. Thankfully, at least so far as cars go, she's not into label envy, so we're free to buy vehicles that suit her needs. We hardly ever get off the plain here, so her Santa Fe Limited really does the trick. It's a wonderful vehicle with no apologies needed.

BTW, you get a lot of winter conditions like here in Colorado, with snow, then dry and cold, then relative warm, then cold again. I just put some Pirelli Sottozero IIs on the M3 and they've been incredible so far. It was dry and warm when I put them on and only gave up a little performance to the dry weather Michelins. We've had single-digit temps and snow and ice lately and the M3 is sticking like a tree frog. I think these are going to be great winter tires, with all the elements that I seek, good dry performance, low noise and great ice and snow performance.

Dave

[Advskier]

Originally Posted by dcstep

I'm totally not a biker, but I haven't autocrossed since the mid 1990s either. I bought the M3 to get back into it and maybe do some track days. If there's a way, I'd love to meet you and have a friendly challenge. I'm Dave Stephens and live in Denver.

Oh, I "get" the X3, particularly with a better suspension than stock, it's just not a high priority for me. If I skied every weekend, then I'd probably value its virtues (as optioned, not stock) more like you. My wife, OTOH, doesn't "get" the X3, other than the label. Thankfully, at least so far as cars go, she's not into label envy, so we're free to buy vehicles that suit her needs. We hardly ever get off the plain here, so her Santa Fe Limited really does the trick. It's a wonderful vehicle with no apologies needed.

BTW, you get a lot of winter conditions like here in Colorado, with snow, then dry and cold, then relative warm, then cold again. I just put some Pirelli Sottozero IIs on the M3 and they've been incredible so far. It was dry and warm when I put them on and only gave up a little performance to the dry weather Michelins. We've had single-digit temps and snow and ice lately and the M3 is sticking like a tree frog. I think these are going to be great winter tires, with all the elements that I seek, good dry performance, low noise and great ice and snow performance.

Dave

I've been considering doing some track days with my M3, but not sure yet. It's expensive and time consuming enough to do them with the bikes, and I'm not sure I want to do those things in my M3.
My name is Brad Richlin. If you decide to take a trip to Salt Lake City, pm me and I could probably be talked into a track day out here.
My M3 sits in the garage when it's snowing (like today) and that's why I have the X3. The X3 also does well hauling a small motorcycle trailer with 2 bikes and gear.

[dcstep]

Nice to meet you Brad. Hopefully we'll meet someday. Yeah, track days are expensive, but autocross is not so much, at least at the friendly club level. I used to race against the serious SCCA National guys in Dallas and that's another story.

The M3 is a ball to drive in the snow, so long as it's not too deep. Man, the 50-50 weight distribution and great snow tires and Dynamic Stability Control (M-mode or not) make it incredibly responsive. You DO need to make big allowances for those clueless souls around you.

Dave

[techimo]

Originally Posted by dcstep

OMG, you loved it and then you say this. Do you withdraw from sex, just when it gets good??? This is the same kind of thing. Now that you "get it" about the M3, you may miss the chance to own one if you don't act now.

To assure that you can handle the car, add to the fun and either take Performance Center delivery or take a Performance Driving Course from BMW. It's great fun, it'll make you a safer driver and you'll fully understand the potential of your car.

Dave

I understand the potential of the car. I understand that I will go looking for on ramps and other reasons to go 0-60 in 4.1 and drive 150mph but normally won't use the car to its full potential in normal driving. The performance of the 335i, however, is something that I'm more likely to max out regularly, which makes it a better fit for me since it's a more docile and refined DD as well.

The DD cons of the 6MT M3 (higher dBA cabin noise, higher RPM in 6th at 65mph, hard edged clutch/transmission/V8, 14mpg and 200-230 mile range and 25% more pollution output of a 335i, less available torque at low rpm's, and a massive power range that I will rarely use) outweigh the pros for me and no, I won't buy a DCT. Damn I think everyone here must be 21. You're all so stuck on yourselves and believe that the M3 is God's gift to man, and so quick to attack others for having an opinion that doesn't match your own. I don't want the M3 as a DD for the same reasons that I don't want a 997 Turbo as a DD. They're still both fantastic pieces of engineering.

And LOL if I choose not to buy one, I'm not going to "miss" the opportunity -- even if they stop making them later. I don't feel like I'm "missing" anything because I choose not to put a Porsche, M3, M5, in my garage. My self worth and enjoyment of life isn't directly proportional to the cost of, or top end performance of, what I drive.

[dcstep]

Ok, so maybe you don't get it. In that case your should buy the 335i. No harm done.

It's great that you put so much effort into the decision. The 335i is a great car and should be fun for you.

Dave

[Splinter4784]

WOW

everything you listed in the OP (and i do not use this word a lot only when someone has really said or done something stupid) is a FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tim3less]

obviously the m3 is not the car for you..i think a toyota prius w/ a supercharger suits you pretty well.

[Stunnerable]

Originally Posted by techimo

I understand the potential of the car. I understand that I will go looking for on ramps and other reasons to go 0-60 in 4.1 and drive 150mph but normally won't use the car to its full potential in normal driving. The performance of the 335i, however, is something that I'm more likely to max out regularly, which makes it a better fit for me since it's a more docile and refined DD as well.

The DD cons of the 6MT M3 (higher dBA cabin noise, higher RPM in 6th at 65mph, hard edged clutch/transmission/V8, 14mpg and 200-230 mile range and 25% more pollution output of a 335i, less available torque at low rpm's, and a massive power range that I will rarely use) outweigh the pros for me and no, I won't buy a DCT. Damn I think everyone here must be 21. You're all so stuck on yourselves and believe that the M3 is God's gift to man, and so quick to attack others for having an opinion that doesn't match your own. I don't want the M3 as a DD for the same reasons that I don't want a 997 Turbo as a DD. They're still both fantastic pieces of engineering.

And LOL if I choose not to buy one, I'm not going to "miss" the opportunity -- even if they stop making them later. I don't feel like I'm "missing" anything because I choose not to put a Porsche, M3, M5, in my garage. My self worth and enjoyment of life isn't directly proportional to the cost of, or top end performance of, what I drive.

Dude, you really really don't get it. Please don't buy an M3.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

Dude, you really really don't get it. Please don't buy an M3.

It's funny how people is trying justify why they shouldn't buy an M3 on an M3 forum.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Kev

It's funny how people is trying justify why they shouldn't buy an M3 on an M3 forum.

I think, at least suspect, that the OP's query was real. After all, the 335i is a hell of a car. Particularly around here, in Colorado, I'd recommend the 335ix over the M3 to most of my friends, due to great combination of performance and particularly good performance on snow and ice. A much smaller portion of my friends would be candidates for the M3 and it's very clear who those friends are. Also, they're very near the same price point, so the comparison is natural.

As M3 lovers we need to be realistic that the M3 is not THE car for everyone. (Thank goodness). Still, people are likely to come here asking if they're uncertain, why wouldn't they??? Where else are they going to find more views about the positive points of the M3?

Dave

[Kev]

Originally Posted by dcstep

I think, at least suspect, that the OP's query was real. After all, the 335i is a hell of a car. Particularly around here, in Colorado, I'd recommend the 335ix over the M3 to most of my friends, due to great combination of performance and particularly good performance on snow and ice. A much smaller portion of my friends would be candidates for the M3 and it's very clear who those friends are. Also, they're very near the same price point, so the comparison is natural.

As M3 lovers we need to be realistic that the M3 is not THE car for everyone. (Thank goodness). Still, people are likely to come here asking if they're uncertain, why wouldn't they??? Where else are they going to find more views about the positive points of the M3?

Dave

I find it funny because the OP keeps defending his choice using what we consider as merits of the car. Don't get me wrong, I came from two 335xi, an E90 and then an E92. I live in Boston and know how well they behave in snow and the low end TQ of the car for city driving. I drive a good bit in traffic in Boston so the additional TQ is very beneficial to the car. However, once I stepped into the M with the intoxicating engine noise and superb handling, I tend to forget about my heavily modified 335xi, even though it might be quicker than the M in a straight line.

Just an observation, that's all.

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by techimo

I understand the potential of the car. I understand that I will go looking for on ramps and other reasons to go 0-60 in 4.1 and drive 150mph but normally won't use the car to its full potential in normal driving. The performance of the 335i, however, is something that I'm more likely to max out regularly, which makes it a better fit for me since it's a more docile and refined DD as well.

The DD cons of the 6MT M3 (higher dBA cabin noise, higher RPM in 6th at 65mph, hard edged clutch/transmission/V8, 14mpg and 200-230 mile range and 25% more pollution output of a 335i, less available torque at low rpm's, and a massive power range that I will rarely use) outweigh the pros for me and no, I won't buy a DCT. Damn I think everyone here must be 21. You're all so stuck on yourselves and believe that the M3 is God's gift to man, and so quick to attack others for having an opinion that doesn't match your own. I don't want the M3 as a DD for the same reasons that I don't want a 997 Turbo as a DD. They're still both fantastic pieces of engineering.
And LOL if I choose not to buy one, I'm not going to "miss" the opportunity -- even if they stop making them later. I don't feel like I'm "missing" anything because I choose not to put a Porsche, M3, M5, in my garage. My self worth and enjoyment of life isn't directly proportional to the cost of, or top end performance of, what I drive.

Guys, techimo is right. There are a lot of members on this forum that are very closed minded when others come on here asking questions about the M3. When people say stuff like "your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai" or "dude, you don't get it, the M3 is not for you," what is constructive with any of those comments? I read through techimo's post, and he has a lot of legitimate and valid points. So why flame or make fun?

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Guys, techimo is right. There are a lot of members on this forum that are very closed minded when others come on here asking questions about the M3. When people say stuff like "your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai" or "dude, you don't get it, the M3 is not for you," what is constructive with any of those comments? I read through techimo's post, and he has a lot of legitimate and valid points. So why flame or make fun?

+1.

[NoSubstitute]

Your soul wants to connect with the machine, and it is only possible with this. I was in your shoes 1 year ago and took 2 steps up from my 2006 Toyota Camry, jumped the 335i and the M3 and boy now I know what they mean when I drive this machine! That is if it won't break the bank