Update on fix for UUC DSSR issues

[TLud]

The issues with the UUC double shear selector rod (DSSR) are well documented. Rather than tightening up the shifter mechanism as advertised, the UUC DSSR actually introduces additional slop into the system. On November 11, 2009, Rob Levinson promised a fix within a week, but nothing more has been heard from UUC since then and no fix has materialized. I plan to post a scathing review/warning regarding UUC shortly, but that's another story. This thread is about a possible fix for the DSSR that I'm working on with my local shop, so let's try to keep this thread on that topic.

Last month, MMMorish noted that using thicker teflon washers than the washers supplied by UUC eliminated some (but not all) of the lateral play in the shifter. The washers that UUC supplied with the DSSR were just a tad too thin. I took my car in earlier this week to try this fix, and it did eliminate some of the lateral play in the shifter, but there's still too much for my tastes (i.e., more than stock).

While they were poking around, they noticed that the pins that secure the DSSR to the stock mechanism are too small. The pins connect the DSSR to the shifter mechanism via bushings (the bushings are OEM). The inner diameter of the bushings is slightly too large for the outer diameter of the connecting pins. This wiggle room between the bushings and the pins creates a slight amount of play between the DSSR and the shifter mechanism, and this slight movement is multiplied by the length of the shift rod so that it's very noticeable at the shift knob. This defect accounts for the remaining lateral play in the system.

So basically, while the DSSR is a good idea in theory, the execution by UUC was extremely poor. Ignoring the fact that the initial batch of DSSRs had prongs that were too narrow to even fit at all, even the corrected version has an issue with the thickness of the supplied washers and the diameter of the supplied pins. Absolutely inexcusable.

Since UUC obviously can't be relied on to provide us with a timely solution, my shop is working with a fabricator to create pins that are the correct diameter. Since the pins will be thicker, the holes in the DSSR itself will also have to be bored out slightly.

EDIT: I spoke with my shop again today, and my initial understanding of the problem was incorrect. I have edited this post accordingly.

[H Bomb]

me personally i would just take the DSSR off. by doing what you are doing, you are just doing there job for them and what should have come to you in the first place. now you have to spend more money and more time.

i only say this bc you said you liked it without the DSSR when only had the shifter.

good luck either way you decide

[JCtx]

TLud, I'd first try to get my money back any way possible based on the reasons you listed. I didn't buy one, but we all seem to agree something like this is not about the money, but the fact you guys have spent countless hours dealing with this crap, not to mention the inconvenience and money spent on shops trying to fix the part.

If they don't own up to their blatant and obvious mistake, then I'd try your solution since nobody would buy those parts, BUT (and it's a big but) only if you're assured it'd be better than stock. Otherwise why bother? Just take your losses and stop dumping money on a crappy product. Oh, and if UUC doesn't do the right thing, hope the owner of this board drops them as vendors. Although smart people probably won't buy from them anymore regardless. Best wishes to all.

[MMMorish]

TLud,
Thanks for the valiant effort in trying to correct this problem. I think it's safe to say that both of us have tried to get this issue fixed and have done so going above and beyond the effort of UUC themselves. A part of me wants to fix this because, like most anyone, I don't like the feeling of having something that doesn't live up to its hype and more so, I don't like having to waist my truly hard earned money on something that should have been right the first time.

But, I have to agree with H Bomb and elp_jc on this one. I mean, by the time I install those bushings and pay the extra labor (this would be the 3rd time paying labor to have this thing done right), I would be spending a lot more than I want to spend on this mod. This mod has truly proven to be a complete waist of money.

I'm probably going to drive the car as is for the spring and perhaps in the summer I may just jump on to another SSK, perhaps the Autosolutions one that looks to have a supplied selector rod that looks to be of good quality. That and the reviews of the older models seem positive.

I just don't want to bother with UUC ever again. I wouldn't even buy their exhaust if I was in the market for one, and they don't even make it themselves. But just having the UUC name on there would bother me.

Let us know if this does fix the problem, who knows, I may change my mind.

All in all, thanks for the effort either way.

Nick

[2000gsr]

I spoke with uuc and i was told they were possibly going to announce the "fix" in the 2nd week of January...

[TLud]

Update: I've edited the original post to correct my earlier misunderstanding of the issue. I may try to draw a diagram to illustrate the issue better.

I definitely understand your suggestions to take the DSSR out altogether and/or demand my money back. I will request compensation from UUC, and if they don't comply, I have already prepared a detailed description of their shoddy product and worse customer service, which I will post here and in other forums.

However, the concept of the DSSR is a good one (although badly executed by UUC), and I'd like to try to make it work for my own sake. I've come this far, and the remaining issue is a fairly easy fix, so I feel like I might as well finish it. I'm confident that when I'm finished it will work better than stock, I just wish that UUC had simply done what they needed to do upfront rather than rushing this into production and leaving their customers holding the bag. I'm not going to rely on UUC for a fix at this point. They've already had three opportunities to get this thing right, and failed miserably all three times. After the previously broken commitments and lack of communication, I have no faith that their promised fix will arrive in January or that it will actually fix anything.

For those of you not willing to go the extra mile on your own, I'd at least take the DSSR out or possibly try out one of the other SSKs on the market for the E9X M3. For those of you considering a SSK, STEER CLEAR OF UUC.

EDIT: Nick, thanks again for your help and efforts to figure this thing out. Much appreciated.

[MrHarris]

I got my DSSR and the slop feels the same as stock.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

I got my DSSR and the slop feels the same as stock.

Glad your DSSR worked out of the box and that you haven't had to go through the same ordeal.

[MrHarris]

I asked for a replacement and the replacement worked. The original was real bad.

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Hope you guys get it worked out!

sometimes its actually really fun to figure out a solutions to things on your own. SOMETIMES ONLY

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

I asked for a replacement and the replacement worked. The original was real bad.

When did you get it? I wonder if they fixed the original design.

[2000gsr]

Originally Posted by MMMorish

When did you get it? I wonder if they fixed the original design.

I think he was referring to the original swap out. To my knowledge there was no new revisions made after that.

[gthirtyfizle]

im starting to hate the kit. They better have a fix

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by gthirtyfizle

im starting to hate the kit. They better have a fix

After I got the larger washers installed like TLud mentioned in his original post, the slop becaue MUCH less and the shifts are now a lot tighter than before. Nothing like stock, which in my car had zero slop, but there is now about 3-4mm which is way better than UUC's 10mm!! Still pathetic if you ask me.

I too am waiting on the so called fix from UUC, but given their track record, I'm not holding my breath.

TLud, keep us updated on your fix.

[Griz]

Originally Posted by 2000gsr

I spoke with uuc and i was told they were possibly going to announce the "fix" in the 2nd week of January...

Timeline is subject to change based on their findings from the work done by TLud...

[TLud]

I promised a better explanation of my shop's findings, so here goes. The attached diagrams are from UUC's own DSSR webpage.

Both the OEM selector rod and UUC's double sheer selector rod (DSSR) serve to connect the pivot point at the bottom of the shifter with the transmission itself.



The OEM selector rod bolts up to the passenger side of the shifter pivot point and the transmission linkage via pin and bushing connections (the pin passes through the bushing and is held in place by a clip on the driver side of the two connection points).



UUC contends (probably rightfully so) that because the OEM selector rod only bolts on to one side, this setup exerts a large amount of torque, which has the potential to deform the plastic bushing in the selector joint over time, which will result in lateral play or slop in the transmission. See the gifs below:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/dssr/OE_SRGJ2.gif
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/dssr/OE_300.gif

To mitigate this potential slop, UUC came up with the double sheer selector rod (DSSR), which has two prongs on either end to bolt up to both sides of the shifter pivot point and the selector joint. Keep in mind that none of us should be feeling the slop that the DSSR is designed to prevent after only 10k or so miles. The DSSR is designed to prevent the slop that occurs once the plastic selector joint bushing wears out. UUC's DSSR kit replaces the selector rod itself (of course) and also the pins and retaining clips, but does NOT replace the selector joint bushing (the OEM bushing is re-used).

The idea is a good one, but the problem occurred in UUC's execution (at least in the DSSRs that Nick and I received). One issue, which Nick and his shop isolated, is that the supplied washers with the DSSR kit aren't quite thick enough. Following Nick's lead to solve this problem eliminated about half of the lateral slop that I was experiencing, and I could actually live with the DSSR at this point if I weren't a perfectionist. The second issue, which my shop found when they took a look at it, is that the pins provided with UUC's DSSR kit are just a touch too small in diameter, which creates wiggle room between the aft pin and the selector joint bushing. Ironically, this is the very problem that the DSSR was designed to prevent. Both of these issues allowed the DSSR to slightly torque independently of the selector joint. This play is amplified by the length of the shifter, which translates into a significant amount of lateral movement at the shift knob.

The description and diagrams above debunk UUC's explanation that the lateral play that Nick and I were experiencing was due to inherent slop in the transmission. Neither Nick nor I experienced this slop before installing the DSSR, which means that the slop must be occurring at (1) the connection between the DSSR and the selector joint or (2) the connection between the DSSR and the shifter or (3) both.

The solution that I am pursuing with my shop to address this second issue is to fabricate a very slightly larger diameter pin that will fit snugly in the selector joint bushing. Consequently, this may require us to very slightly drill out the holes in the aft end of the DSSR, but we won't know that until we try it.

Obviously, I could go back to stock, but my bushings would eventually suffer the wear that the DSSR was designed to prevent. As I plan to keep this car for some time, I'd like to avoid that situation. Sure, I could always replace the plastic bushings when they wear out, but that's treating the symptom, not curing the disease. Another nice feature of the DSSR is that it's heavier than the stock selector rod, which noticeably smooths out some of the notchiness of the shifts, similar to a weighted shift knob.

I hope this post helps to clear up any confusion regarding the issues with the DSSR. For those of you waiting on UUC's purported fix, if it ever comes, I wouldn't be satisfied unless it addresses both issues described in this post. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.

[MMMorish]

Hmm, interesting! I'm curious to see if your shop will be able to fabricate a pin that will work. If so, I just may jump on your fix, even though I said earlier in the thread that I wouldn't. Unfortunately, I too am a perfectionist.

I'm curious to know what size washers your shop used to fix the issue that my shop fixed earlier. The reason why I ask is because my shop told me that they only used the larger washers on one side of the DSSR, because using them on both sides would have deemed a tight fit that just wouldn't work. Ultimately, due to the washers only being larger on the one side, my shifter is slightly angled to the right. Not noticeable to anyone else, but since it's my car, I notice it. If your shop used larger washers on both sides, and are able to fabricated a pin that works, I would be willing to buy both from your shop as a kit so that I can fix my shifter to be tight like I want it.

In the end, I could just buy the Autosolutions/Rogue SSK, but I would end up paying way more than I would want to for this whole mod, that should have been easy from the beginning.

All in all, UUC, where are you and why aren't you reading these threads???

[2000gsr]

patiently awaiting the "fix" from uuc..............

[MrHarris]

I wonder, what if mine is defective but I can't tell because the slop is the same as stock.

When I had my e46 and added the full rogue SSK kit, it took away almost all the slop.

This UUC kit with DSSR has same slop, and the DSSR didn't really change the feel of the shift. Can anyone explain how they feel the UUC + DSSR changed it over stock?

[gthirtyfizle]

Anything from uuc yet?

[2000gsr]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

This UUC kit with DSSR has same slop, and the DSSR didn't really change the feel of the shift. Can anyone explain how they feel the UUC + DSSR changed it over stock?

It went from a spongy type slop to a more loose precise slop.

[Optherion]

You should have gone with DCT !!! Mine has no slop

Sorry but I HAD to. With all you guys that chime in on the DCT lag thread and say "should have gone manual" lol