Install an N54 6cylinder Engine in E92 M3 Body?

[Savage_M3]

As Longboarder said, just S/C your car and you'll keep up with any 335 that is not on the verge of detonation. It will be just as expensive as an engine swap without the headaches. Doesn't a S/C kit take less than 16 hours to install?

[AtlantaDude]

You know. Best of both worlds. Gintani is close to finishing their Twin Turbo setup for the M3. It's putting down some serious numbers, and hopefully it won't be that much more expensive than a SC kit.

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by M3M3CAR

I want to build a project car because there were a few things I clearly remember not liking about the V8, mainly being it's body weight, the inefficiency of the V8 engine and how expensive it is to tune compared to a 335IS.

According to BMW at the 2007 E9x M3 release: "The resulting V8 engine weighs 202 kg (445 lb): 15 kg (33 lb) lighter than the straight-6 engine it replaces, while also being shorter."

So to talk of any weight savings by converting to a turbo I6 seems to be a false promise.

[M3/4 life]

Supercharge the M & call it a day bro!

[IzzyGray]

Got nothing to add to the OP but wanted to add some tidbit from some of the posters in the thread:

Gintani's TT is supposed to be north of 15k. Definitely more than an ESS 650 but not sure by what margin. Still probably cheaper than the engine swap.

SC install should take about 10-12 hours. I took 16 hours and it was my first time doing such work, let alone on the e92 M3 that I've never worked on before(bought the car about 5-6 mths ago). Additionally I had installed the AA kit which I believe is a tad more work for install(that and I took some other parts off since I didn't want to cut stuff). With the right tools, and a lift, I could see this being a 8-10 hr job. It really isn't rocket science and I'm very glad I DIY-ed.

[AtlantaDude]

Originally Posted by IzzyGray

Got nothing to add to the OP but wanted to add some tidbit from some of the posters in the thread:

Gintani's TT is supposed to be north of 15k. Definitely more than an ESS 650 but not sure by what margin. Still probably cheaper than the engine swap.

SC install should take about 10-12 hours. I took 16 hours and it was my first time doing such work, let alone on the e92 M3 that I've never worked on before(bought the car about 5-6 mths ago). Additionally I had installed the AA kit which I believe is a tad more work for install(that and I took some other parts off since I didn't want to cut stuff). With the right tools, and a lift, I could see this being a 8-10 hr job. It really isn't rocket science and I'm very glad I DIY-ed.

Their base kit (they're developing different levels) better not be north of 15k. They're E90 right now is basically a bolt on. Hopefully the base kit will be something close to the SC kits, with the larger ones being the big money.

[IzzyGray]

Not sure which level specifically they were discussing when the"north of 15k was thrown". It's on the "other" forum ;p

[Hujan]

I understand where the OP is coming from. Guys with a 335i can drop $800 on a Cobb, $1000 on some downpipes, and $800 on an FMIC and be pushing ~400 whp/460 wtq. $2600 goes a long way on the N54.

Cost aside, the N54 is also a fun motor. My other car is a Z4 35i and it is a blast to drive around town even with a Cobb Stage 1. The low-end torque is nice, especially putting around urban areas from stoplight to stoplight, which is the only environment where the M3's weight and lack of low-end torque really shows itself.

All that said, if you want to capture some of the feel of the N54 but with all the upside of the M3, it would definitely be more cost effective to buy a supercharger (e.g., the ESS 585 kit) and perhaps even a modified differential with a higher final drive. A used ESS 585 kit can be had on the cheap.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I understand where the OP is coming from. Guys with a 335i can drop $800 on a Cobb, $1000 on some downpipes, and $800 on an FMIC and be pushing ~400 whp/460 wtq. $2600 goes a long way on the N54.

Cost aside, the N54 is also a fun motor. My other car is a Z4 35i and it is a blast to drive around town even with a Cobb Stage 1. The low-end torque is nice, especially putting around urban areas from stoplight to stoplight, which is the only environment where the M3's weight and lack of low-end torque really shows itself.

All that said, if you want to capture some of the feel of the N54 but with all the upside of the M3, it would definitely be more cost effective to buy a supercharger (e.g., the ESS 585 kit) and perhaps even a modified differential with a higher final drive. A used ESS 585 kit can be had on the cheap.

You can also buy a gtr and tune it to beat just about any exotic you will run into for a 3rd of the price. Yet people still spend 300k to have a v12. There are more to the m3 than it's power. Or how far a tune will take you.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

You can also buy a gtr and tune it to beat just about any exotic you will run into for a 3rd of the price. Yet people still spend 300k to have a v12. There are more to the m3 than it's power. Or how far a tune will take you.

Well said. The GTR looks like ass to me, but that's just one man's opinion. I would rather spend $300,000 to get a Ferrari if running with exotics was my goal. (Or, more likely, I would spend $190,000 on a Porsche 911 Turbo S.)

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by Bear From Jax

Their base kit (they're developing different levels) better not be north of 15k. They're E90 right now is basically a bolt on. Hopefully the base kit will be something close to the SC kits, with the larger ones being the big money.

TWO turbochargers. Two of everything pretty much. It's expensive. Especially considering they are using TiAL SS turbos with billet wheels. I still want to see the increases thermally before considering it. Not sure how happy these turbos will be running WOT for 20 minutes.

[wheatpaste]

Why not just swap in a 2JZE? I heard you can make like 1000 HP with one of those.

[MasterP]

TT LS1? LS1 or one of it's many derivatives is the engine answer to everything

[wheatpaste]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

TT LS1? LS1 or one of it's many derivatives is the engine answer to everything

Yeah, even better.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

According to BMW at the 2007 E9x M3 release: "The resulting V8 engine weighs 202 kg (445 lb): 15 kg (33 lb) lighter than the straight-6 engine it replaces, while also being shorter."

So to talk of any weight savings by converting to a turbo I6 seems to be a false promise.

The S54 is closed iron block. The N54 is aluminum open deck. And don't buy that S65 lighter thing, fully dressed it weighs more than a S54.

[coloradoe92m3]

Seems everyone missed the point being the v8 is too pricey to tune to Hus liking of power. Although I disagree in that a cat less, tuned e92 M3 with 93 plus octane will a FBO tuned 335 on pump gas. Once they get methanol it upgrade turbos than you would need to supedcharge M3.

However the drive train in the M3 wasn't designed for ton of engine torque. Was made lighter, including tranny ( same reason n54 dct guys are limited in tuning potential) as dct isn't made to handle a load of torque and neither is M3 driveshaft and other parts meant for high revs, lower torque.

So I don't think it would last long

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by coloradoe92m3

Seems everyone missed the point being the v8 is too pricey to tune to Hus liking of power. Although I disagree in that a cat less, tuned e92 M3 with 93 plus octane will a FBO tuned 335 on pump gas. Once they get methanol it upgrade turbos than you would need to supedcharge M3.

However the drive train in the M3 wasn't designed for ton of engine torque. Was made lighter, including tranny ( same reason n54 dct guys are limited in tuning potential) as dct isn't made to handle a load of torque and neither is M3 driveshaft and other parts meant for high revs, lower torque.

So I don't think it would last long

While I'm no die-hard S65 worshipper (see my prior post), the OP can't complain about the M3 being too pricey to mod if he's considering transplanting an N54 into an M3.

Yes, it's cheaper to mod an 335i than an M3 for more power. But unless he's willing to live with the 335i's chassis/suspension, everyone's point is that it would be far cheaper to supercharge an M3 than to transform a 335i into an M3 or to transplant an N54 into an M3.

From cheapest to most expensive:

Buying and tuning a 335i >>>> supercharging his existing M3 >>>> dropping an N54 into an M3 >>>> modding an 335i to handle/look like M3

[Z K]

Originally Posted by M3M3CAR

It's great that it can be done, but don't you think all that body work will be significantly more expensive than to simply do an engine transplant?

You can't just drop in an N54 engine and expect it to work. There's a lot of rewiring and programming to do. Not as much as swapping an engine from another manufacturer but it isn't plug and play. If cost is a concern, I wouldn't even bother.

Also, to make it worthwhile you should really love this car and expect to keep your car until you die. With a N54 engine swap, the car is worthless to most perspective customers. The money you put into it, you will never get back.

[ailikesiliu]

What is DTC?
Would't it make more sense just supercharging your s65? the cost of swapping a n54/n55 into a m3 will cost more i assume?

[WarrantyTracker]

It's doable but it's not a job for a first-timer. We don't have a get a step-by-step DIY. How many motor swaps have you done, and what kinds? You might have to fabricate some mounts and stuff too. Is that any problem for you?

Or are you just a troll?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Z K

You can't just drop in an N54 engine and expect it to work. There's a lot of rewiring and programming to do. Not as much as swapping an engine from another manufacturer but it isn't plug and play. If cost is a concern, I wouldn't even bother.

Also, to make it worthwhile you should really love this car and expect to keep your car until you die. With a N54 engine swap, the car is worthless to most perspective customers. The money you put into it, you will never get back.

Exactly! How can the OP possibly think that it's a simple plug and play swap? Still don't understand why you wouldn't just sell the M3, and start off with a 335i in the first place.

[Cbozz]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Think this is "NOT" the right place for your question,because 99% of the people on here adore their ///M "NA" V8 high rev engine !
Also be prepared man ! For some negative comments ,especially with the "inefficiency" of our S65 V8 engine ?!?!
Personal i think you smoked the wrong thing !

+1, no hold on, +1,000,000,000,000!!!