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      12-11-2017, 11:11 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by MaximusJ View Post
Incoming NSX.

Gnarly!!!
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      12-12-2017, 07:45 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
Absolutely agreed!

Why own it when it's going to cost you the same whether you buy outright in cash or lease (of course dependent on interest/money factor)? One is just a lot less riskier and if you want to take the risk of owning a depreciating asset.. do that when the lease is over, because now you have at least had 2-3 years to figure out what it's worth to the market and whether it's worth keeping.

On the lease:
- You are penalized for every extra mile. Be careful how you spend your miles or your math will go down the pipe. Yeah, no Freedom.
- You will be dinged for damage when the lease is up and you have to return it to the dealer. “Wear and tear" is a term that is very flexible in dealer’s eyes
- Your payment is usually a lot bigger than financing. Wonder why?
- You do pay interest, while financing has a lower interest rate than lease, sometimes is 1% or even zero. Put the money towards the house and use manufacturer’s money.
- If you think you are smart and the manufacturer is stupid think again.
- While you paid to drive a vehicle which you don't own, after the same period of time I own my vehicle. After 4 years you walk, I drive. You have nothing; I do have some money in there. You need to re-lease to drive, I only need to decide if I keep it or not, but I am not forced to have new payments. You never know, life is a funny thing...
- We own a "depreciating asset". Funny, you just paid the depreciation for something you don't own.
- if during the lase you decided to ditch it, you just paid the depreciation and you paid interest too.
- If you like it and want to keep it, well you paid more than the finance guy.
- Today there is no such thing like vehicle "prone to breaking". There are owners and owners though. And there is mass media brainwash that feeds you that. If you are respectful with your vehicle and take care of it, you will have a good vehicle. Period. I had vehicles that were considered unreliable yet, they proved to be good vehicles.
- If you buy your vehicle cash and keep it in good shape you might end up with a pretty nice deal overall. Also if you keep the vehicle in a good shape you will get a nice percentage back. I always sell my vehicle for more than market, but always sell because they are in an absolute perfect condition.
- That will also eliminate the “won’t sell factor’. A well maintained and good vehicle always sells.

If you can write it down the payments, yeah, lease might work, but even then make sure that you end up better. Writing it down does not mean more personal revenue after you look under the bottom line.
If the payments can be deducted (unlikely for sport/exotics/expensive cars - government gives you a bottom line), and looks better than finance, then yes Lease is better.


Lease might work for some but make no sense for many. Depends on each case.
Having generic conclusions based solely on your situation is just wrong.

Enjoy your car!

Last edited by Tracus; 12-12-2017 at 07:51 PM.
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      12-12-2017, 08:51 PM   #135
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best thing about Porsche leasing. They have a 12 month pull ahead and they don't prorate the miles! I traded in our cayenne at 29 months with 47450 miles and no excess penalty!
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      12-12-2017, 10:35 PM   #136
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Tracus, you appear to have never heard of residuals or open leases.
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      12-12-2017, 11:50 PM   #137
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Tracus, you appear to have never heard of residuals or open leases.
Well, isn't open lease more detrimental since the buyer bears the risk that the asset depreciates more than was expected by the end of the lease?
Very unlikely to be in a positive position and get something back from the lessor...
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      12-12-2017, 11:57 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Tracus, you appear to have never heard of residuals or open leases.
Well, isn't open lease more detrimental since the buyer bears the risk that the asset depreciates more than was expected by the end of the lease?
Very unlikely to be in a positive position and get something back from the lessor...
Open leases, like BMW's Owners Choice allow you to either get out of a lease, or continue it with no penalty and in many states, not pay sales tax a second time.

With something like our boring af 3er with known residuals, it's nice. We'll trade the car in a few months before the lease ends, get a small amount of equity back (enough to cover TT&L) on the next thing and not worry about curbed wheels or door dings.


So for 32 or so months, we'll have less equity than if we'd purchased it with financing, but will have paid significantly less in payments and interest (same rate, lower payment.)

Obviously only works if you don't keep cars long (I own mine) but you can always roll it into traditional financing or pay off the balance if you decide you want to keep the car.
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      12-13-2017, 01:17 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Open leases, like BMW's Owners Choice allow you to either get out of a lease, or continue it with no penalty and in many states, not pay sales tax a second time.

With something like our boring af 3er with known residuals, it's nice. We'll trade the car in a few months before the lease ends, get a small amount of equity back (enough to cover TT&L) on the next thing and not worry about curbed wheels or door dings.


So for 32 or so months, we'll have less equity than if we'd purchased it with financing, but will have paid significantly less in payments and interest (same rate, lower payment.)

Obviously only works if you don't keep cars long (I own mine) but you can always roll it into traditional financing or pay off the balance if you decide you want to keep the car.
In my experience lease interest rate is higher always. It was never lower. Right now 3 series is at 1.9% finance and 2.9% lease. Open lease is more expensive than finance as well. There are different options for different scenarios. For me owning the car is the best choice.
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      12-13-2017, 01:21 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
A few more $$ will get you the Bugatti beating Tesla Roadster (0-60 in 1.9 seconds, 250+ top speed, quarter mile in 8.9 seconds, 0-100 in 4.2), all for just $200k, oh yeah and 610 mile range. (200 kWh battery, twice as much as model s P100d
Assuming u could even get one. Preorders are out the door and its starting at $200K it will be more for sure after u add in everything else.
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      12-13-2017, 05:25 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyM View Post
Absolutely agreed!

Why own it when it's going to cost you the same whether you buy outright in cash or lease (of course dependent on interest/money factor)? One is just a lot less riskier and if you want to take the risk of owning a depreciating asset.. do that when the lease is over, because now you have at least had 2-3 years to figure out what it's worth to the market and whether it's worth keeping.

On the lease:
- You are penalized for every extra mile. Be careful how you spend your miles or your math will go down the pipe. Yeah, no Freedom.
Those miles are proportional to depreciation on the same car. ie the value of your finances vehicle similarly goes down when you add miles.

Quote:
- You will be dinged for damage when the lease is up and you have to return it to the dealer. “Wear and tear" is a term that is very flexible in dealer’s eyes
It is flexible and usually in the leaser?s favor. They give you a guide on how big scratches and dents can be before it incurs a charge. It?s quite generous. I?ve lease returned dinged cars with no charge.

Quote:
- Your payment is usually a lot bigger than financing. Wonder why?
Your payment is lower on a lease.

Quote:
- You do pay interest, while financing has a lower interest rate than lease,
That depends on the lease.

Quote:
sometimes is 1% or even zero. Put the money towards the house and use manufacturer’s money.
That small % savings on financing is very small. You are better off putting the difference between a lease payment and a finance payment towards your house. That?s actually the point of a lease: more liquidity.



Quote:
- While you paid to drive a vehicle which you don't own, after the same period of time I own my vehicle. After 4 years you walk, I drive. You have nothing; I do have some money in there. You need to re-lease to drive, I only need to decide if I keep it or not, but I am not forced to have new payments. You never know, life is a funny thing...
I have a brand new car under warranty after 3 years. Will I save more if I drive an old car? Sure! That?s why I have multiple. Gotta pay to play. Some people want to pay a bit more to have a new car every 3 years. In this case, financing wouldn?t be that smart.

Quote:
- We own a "depreciating asset". Funny, you just paid the depreciation for something you don't own.
It?s the same thing. When you buy your car and sell it later, the new purchase price - your selling price = depreciation. In both cases you?ve paid the depreciation.

Quote:
- if during the lase you decided to ditch it, you just paid the depreciation and you paid interest too.
How is that different than financing?

Quote:
- If you like it and want to keep it, well you paid more than the finance guy.
That?s the fault of the leaser, not the lease.



Quote:
- Today there is no such thing like vehicle "prone to breaking". There are owners and owners though. And there is mass media brainwash that feeds you that. If you are respectful with your vehicle and take care of it, you will have a good vehicle. Period. I had vehicles that were considered unreliable yet, they proved to be good vehicles.
Agreed. Some cars, however, aren't meant to be long term. That's why I lease bmw and I own Japanese.
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