Electronic Steering

bimmergoat · 11-20-2012, 08:20 PM

So I drove a 2013 c63 with the P package and the steering felt very light to me. It's so different than the M and I don't like it. Maybe it's because I'm used to the M but it seems like the light steering does not match the brutish appeal of the car. Can anyone explain to me what I'm supposed to expect when driving an electrically assisted steering system? If the new M feels like this then I'm keeping what I have.

adc · 11-20-2012, 08:55 PM

Not all EPS are created equal. The one in my Mini Countryman is fairly light in normal mode, but in Sport it weighs up very nicely, it's well judged and perfectly in character with the car.

So weight can be easily dialed in, feedback however not necessarily so.

clar · 11-20-2012, 11:35 PM

EPS feedback has always been, and continues to be the Achilles's heel even in the new Porsche 991. I am really not looking forward to the EPS on the next M3.

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 11-21-2012, 09:06 AM

EPS can be very good. The 991 911 has proven that. It is equal in almost all aspects to a GT3 which says a lot considering the GT3 is regarded as one of if not the best in steering feel.

I am not looking forward to BMW implementing EPS on the M3 because the EPS bmw has used so far hasnt been very good to say the least.

adc · 11-21-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

EPS can be very good. The 991 911 has proven that. It is equal in almost all aspects to a GT3 which says a lot considering the GT3 is regarded as one of if not the best in steering feel.

No it isn't.

The performance is almost as good as the GT3's, but the steering feel is not even close. I think many people confuse precision with feel.

Whatever, since I'm not in the right demographic for a 991 it's all academic as far as I'm concerned.

Majdnoon · 11-21-2012, 04:15 PM

EPS can be pretty good at times.... I had a Jetta GLI before my E36 and it didn't feel very numb to me. Although admittedly my M's steering feels much better than my Jetta did, the VW's steering wasnt bad or terrible

urBan_dK · 11-21-2012, 04:24 PM

EPS has not been executed well on any car. For instance, on my S2000 I would consider it the car's biggest flaw. On the M3, I consider the 6MT feel to be the biggest flaw (whereas it has steering feel in spades compared to the S2000).

Z K · 11-21-2012, 04:53 PM

EPS can be done right. The Honda NSX has EPS, S2000 has EPS, the 991 has EPS and all are cars with a ton of feedback and positive steering feel. The EPS in the current BMW 5 series is terrible though.

PhillyNate · 11-21-2012, 06:02 PM

When they FINALLY get EPS completely right, meaning feel and accuracy, we will be in a new era. Porsche has gotten accuracy part mastered already. I'm guessing they will be the first to marry the two, everybody else will follow suit from there. At that point hydraulic will be a distant memory. For right now I'd rather have hydraulic we have in our M3's until BMW gets a handle on this. As a side note, steering FEEL doesn't feel quite as good on my M3 as it did on my 328i but accuracy is in another league. Go figure.

DiscoZ · 11-22-2012, 04:24 PM

I actually find the steering my C63 much better weighed and responsive than the one in my M3. I didn't have M-dynamic mode though.

At the limit on the track, the M3's steering was slightly more precise, but that was likely the weight and traction playing in as well.

gthal · 11-22-2012, 05:56 PM

I find the C63 steering to be precise, similar to the M3, but IMO a little too light. The M3 had better weight. Having said that, I found the M3 a tad too light as well but definitely better than the C63.

clar · 11-23-2012, 01:50 AM

Accuracy is very much an inherent trait of EPS due to the nature of the technology compared to hydraulic. Feedback and feel however, will need time to develop and mature. As it is, even the EPS on the 991 that i tried, does not come close to being satisfying.

soberin · 11-23-2012, 05:03 PM

Feedback and feel on the E90 M3 has always been good, not great. You cannot compare the hydraulic steering on the M3 to the pre-991 Porsche, Lotus, Sti or EVO. The M3 is overboosted, and lacks the true feedback through the fingers that define a great sports car. But it ain't bad.

However, compared to the C63, and I have driven every model year, the M3 steering is magnificent. The C63 steering is a numb piece of crap; like dialing and old rotary phone. No feel, huge play off center. This is particularly upsetting in a car with such outrageous hp and torque.

ASAP · 11-23-2012, 05:10 PM

The S2000 has the best usage of EPS I have ever seen as well as the NSX. One word of note is that it is still the largest complaint about both cars...

bimdo · 11-23-2012, 10:07 PM

i have no complaints about the steering feel of the eps on the nsx-it's great.it only assists until about 15 mph,and after that there is no power assist. so it doesn't have to be a negative,it just has to be done properly.

Wolfinwolfsclothing · 11-26-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

No it isn't.

The performance is almost as good as the GT3's, but the steering feel is not even close. I think many people confuse precision with feel.

Whatever, since I'm not in the right demographic for a 991 it's all academic as far as I'm concerned.

At speed, that car is pinpoint accurate and has feel and precision levels that nearly match a GT3. Ive had plenty of time in both to know this.
Nearly every review has also come to this conclusion. If Tiff and Randy Pobst who are decorated pro drivers who are much more honed in than anyone on this forum can also make this assessment, then it sure is.

**************************car-videos-12...Episode-01.htm

hakaida442 · 11-27-2012, 08:58 PM

I'd still take a GT3's steering feel over the 991C2S electric steering. Maybe it's the PDCC option that makes it feel a bit odd at times. I also like the steering feel of the 996 GT3 over the 997.1 and 997.2 variants even though it's not as fast around the track.

11-20-2012, 08:20 PM	#1
bimmergoat Private First Class 44 Rep 180 Posts Drives: M3 E90 Jerez Black Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: charlotte iTrader: (0)	Electronic Steering - M3 vs C63 Performance package So I drove a 2013 c63 with the P package and the steering felt very light to me. It's so different than the M and I don't like it. Maybe it's because I'm used to the M but it seems like the light steering does not match the brutish appeal of the car. Can anyone explain to me what I'm supposed to expect when driving an electrically assisted steering system? If the new M feels like this then I'm keeping what I have.
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11-20-2012, 08:55 PM	#2
adc Major General 2750 Rep 6,759 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MD/DC iTrader: (12)	Not all EPS are created equal. The one in my Mini Countryman is fairly light in normal mode, but in Sport it weighs up very nicely, it's well judged and perfectly in character with the car. So weight can be easily dialed in, feedback however not necessarily so. __________________ 2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i
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11-20-2012, 11:35 PM	#3
clar Major 144 Rep 1,440 Posts Drives: M5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Singapore iTrader: (0)	EPS feedback has always been, and continues to be the Achilles's heel even in the new Porsche 991. I am really not looking forward to the EPS on the next M3. __________________ - Frozen Grey F10 M5 DCT - Rosso Corsa 458 Speciale Sold - Frozen Grey E92 M3 Sold
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11-21-2012, 09:06 AM	#4
Wolfinwolfsclothing Banned 37 Rep 1,312 Posts Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: B-roads iTrader: (2)	EPS can be very good. The 991 911 has proven that. It is equal in almost all aspects to a GT3 which says a lot considering the GT3 is regarded as one of if not the best in steering feel. I am not looking forward to BMW implementing EPS on the M3 because the EPS bmw has used so far hasnt been very good to say the least.
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11-21-2012, 04:15 PM	#6
Majdnoon Welek Ya Kelb 33 Rep 139 Posts Drives: 1998 E36 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	EPS can be pretty good at times.... I had a Jetta GLI before my E36 and it didn't feel very numb to me. Although admittedly my M's steering feels much better than my Jetta did, the VW's steering wasnt bad or terrible
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11-21-2012, 04:24 PM	#7
urBan_dK First Lieutenant 25 Rep 395 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Mill Creek, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2013 Subaru WRX [10.00] 2000 Aprilia RSV Mi ... [10.00] 2008 BMW E90 M3 [10.00] 2005 Honda S2000 [10.00]	EPS has not been executed well on any car. For instance, on my S2000 I would consider it the car's biggest flaw. On the M3, I consider the 6MT feel to be the biggest flaw (whereas it has steering feel in spades compared to the S2000).
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11-21-2012, 04:53 PM	#8
Z K Major General 1889 Rep 5,506 Posts Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (3)	EPS can be done right. The Honda NSX has EPS, S2000 has EPS, the 991 has EPS and all are cars with a ton of feedback and positive steering feel. The EPS in the current BMW 5 series is terrible though.
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11-21-2012, 06:02 PM	#9
PhillyNate ENTHUSIAST 135 Rep 2,097 Posts Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 Porsche Cayman [0.00]	When they FINALLY get EPS completely right, meaning feel and accuracy, we will be in a new era. Porsche has gotten accuracy part mastered already. I'm guessing they will be the first to marry the two, everybody else will follow suit from there. At that point hydraulic will be a distant memory. For right now I'd rather have hydraulic we have in our M3's until BMW gets a handle on this. As a side note, steering FEEL doesn't feel quite as good on my M3 as it did on my 328i but accuracy is in another league. Go figure. __________________ "what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson 2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt 2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15) 2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14) 2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11)
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11-22-2012, 04:24 PM	#10
DiscoZ Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 273 Posts Drives: 991.1S, G05 X5 50i, LR Disco Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: T.Dot iTrader: (0)	I actually find the steering my C63 much better weighed and responsive than the one in my M3. I didn't have M-dynamic mode though. At the limit on the track, the M3's steering was slightly more precise, but that was likely the weight and traction playing in as well. __________________ 2015 Porsche 911 C2S \| 2019 BMW X5 50i \| 2020 Land Rover Discovery 2007 Ducati Monster S4RS \| 2016 BMW RNineT \| 2018 Aprilia RSV4 \| 2019 Speed Triple RS
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11-22-2012, 05:56 PM	#11
gthal Major General 1904 Rep 5,678 Posts Drives: 2018 340i xDrive Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (2)	I find the C63 steering to be precise, similar to the M3, but IMO a little too light. The M3 had better weight. Having said that, I found the M3 a tad too light as well but definitely better than the C63. __________________ 2020 X3 M40i \| Black \| Current DD 2020 C8 Corvette \| Z51 \| Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 \| Long Beach Blue \| 6MT 2015 M4 \| Austin Yellow \| DCT 2012 MB C63AMG \| 2011 E92 M3 \| 2010 E92 M3
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11-23-2012, 01:50 AM	#12
clar Major 144 Rep 1,440 Posts Drives: M5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Singapore iTrader: (0)	Accuracy is very much an inherent trait of EPS due to the nature of the technology compared to hydraulic. Feedback and feel however, will need time to develop and mature. As it is, even the EPS on the 991 that i tried, does not come close to being satisfying. __________________ - Frozen Grey F10 M5 DCT - Rosso Corsa 458 Speciale Sold - Frozen Grey E92 M3 Sold
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11-23-2012, 05:03 PM	#13
soberin Second Lieutenant 31 Rep 242 Posts Drives: M3 E90 Join Date: May 2010 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Feedback and feel on the E90 M3 has always been good, not great. You cannot compare the hydraulic steering on the M3 to the pre-991 Porsche, Lotus, Sti or EVO. The M3 is overboosted, and lacks the true feedback through the fingers that define a great sports car. But it ain't bad. However, compared to the C63, and I have driven every model year, the M3 steering is magnificent. The C63 steering is a numb piece of crap; like dialing and old rotary phone. No feel, huge play off center. This is particularly upsetting in a car with such outrageous hp and torque.
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11-23-2012, 05:10 PM	#14
ASAP Major General 10158 Rep 8,626 Posts Drives: '23 X3 M40i Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	The S2000 has the best usage of EPS I have ever seen as well as the NSX. One word of note is that it is still the largest complaint about both cars... __________________ 2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
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11-23-2012, 10:07 PM	#15
bimdo Lieutenant 42 Rep 486 Posts Drives: 2008 e90 m3 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: usa iTrader: (0)	i have no complaints about the steering feel of the eps on the nsx-it's great.it only assists until about 15 mph,and after that there is no power assist. so it doesn't have to be a negative,it just has to be done properly.
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11-27-2012, 08:58 PM	#17
hakaida442 First Lieutenant 3 Rep 371 Posts Drives: 11 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV iTrader: (0)	I'd still take a GT3's steering feel over the 991C2S electric steering. Maybe it's the PDCC option that makes it feel a bit odd at times. I also like the steering feel of the 996 GT3 over the 997.1 and 997.2 variants even though it's not as fast around the track.
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