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[Speedtrap]

Mine came with 19s and Pilot Sports Cup +, and taking it on a track is amazing. The grip is amazing but you are talking about 4K miles max on these tyres.

[lucid]

Mine are down to 2/32"-3/32" tread (from the original 6/32") after about 2.5 track days and 1500 miles on the street. There has been a few post stating that the PSC+ compound is slightly different than PSC compound, but I have not been able to locate any specific/datailed release on this. If anyone can locate a Michelin publication, that would be great.

[jk6672]

lucid,

Did you use the same size as stock on your set up?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by jk6672

lucid,

Did you use the same size as stock on your set up?

Yes. The only PSC+ tires that will fit the OEM 19" wheels come in the stock 19" tire sizes (245/265). There are PSC tires in other sizes though (not +), but I don't think they will fit the OEM 19" wheels.

[argonboy]

Originally Posted by lucid

Mine are down to 2/32"-3/32" tread (from the original 6/32") after about 2.5 track days and 1500 miles on the street. There has been a few post stating that the PSC+ compound is slightly different than PSC compound, but I have not been able to locate any specific/datailed release on this. If anyone can locate a Michelin publication, that would be great.

Not a direct response but in Edmund's review of the 997.2 GT3 they talk about the modifications to Porsche's OE PS Cup tires.

Personally I think the BMW spec PS Cup+ are far superior to the PS2, and as far as normal driving around wet grip (not mentioning hydroplaning) I thought they were comparable to the PS2.

I don't mean take it to 155mph in the rain, but I expected more understeer and the rear end to swing out in sharper turns. These are both things I got used to with the PS2 in the rain.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by argonboy

Not a direct response but in Edmund's review of the 997.2 GT3 they talk about the modifications to Porsche's OE PS Cup tires.

Personally I think the BMW spec PS Cup+ are far superior to the PS2, and as far as normal driving around wet grip (not mentioning hydroplaning) I thought they were comparable to the PS2.

I don't mean take it to 155mph in the rain, but I expected more understeer and the rear end to swing out in sharper turns. These are both things I got used to with the PS2 in the rain.

I wish they said more about the differences.

I experienced hydroplaning when driving on a freeway in heavy rain at 70 mph with 40% tread on these tires (not under braking, but the highway had standing water in many spots), so my hydroplaning comment was not limited to track driving. I don't mean to bring this up constantly to prove something, but I do want folks to understand there is a safety issue here with semi-worn PSCs in the rain at even highway speeds. I'd hate to see someone being forced into an emergency braking sitaution and bite it. Be safe! My 2 cents...

On another note, I put in 3-4 sessions last weekend in heavy rain on the track with the PS2s. They rocked. I could dive into a braking zone with standing water at high speed and get away with it--for the most part...

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by FStop7

Tire Rack has them on the website

Sport Cup+ - BMW
Serv. Desc: (93Y)
Load Range XL

$360 each for the fronts, $419 each for the rears

What sizes are those prices for??

[ben@tirerack]

Those are the stock 19" sizes. 245/35R19 currently $353 (pricing accurate 7/1/09 and subject to change) 265/35R19 Rear $416 (same story on pricing).

The Pilot Sport Cup+ does have a different tread pattern with more void area than the original Pilot Sport Cup . That makes it safer in rain, but not quite as hardcore on the track. I am trying to find anything official about the differences, and will post anything I discover.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ben@tirerack

I am trying to find anything official about the differences, and will post anything I discover.

If you can find anything on any potential compound differences, that would be great. Thanks.

[ben@tirerack]

Ok here is the file that Tire Rack has on the differences. None of this is official from Michelin. This is our tire information department's own conclusions based on inspection of both types:

This is from back when the first “plus” SKUs were being released as the Porsche N-Spec variant of the Pilot Sport Cup. Recall that the BMW-OE tires are designated as “Plus”, while the N-Spec tires do not say “Plus” on the sidewall. Michelin won’t elaborate on any design differences, but outwardly both OE derivatives share the same tread pattern. OE tires are developed in conjunction with the vehicle manufacturer, and their exact design specifics are considered proprietary and confidential.



Pilot Sport Cup Plus (BMW OE) and Pilot Sport Cup N-Spec (Porsche OE)

Observations

*The BMW/Porsche OE version has a narrow circumferential groove in the wide outside shoulder, where the conventional tire is solid (both have alternating oval openings).

*The circumferential grooves on the BMW/Porsche-OE version are much wider and the intermediate ribs much narrower than the conventional version.

*Not readily visible is the change to the inside shoulder. Where the notches are molded at partial depth on the conventional PSC, the BMW/Porsche-OE version has partial on the inside half, and is full-depth on the outside half of the tread block.

*Both versions are molded at 6/32" tread depth.

*All of these tread pattern changes indicate a move towards improved hydroplaning resistance with the BMW/Porsche-OE version versus the conventional tread pattern.

*The BMW/Porsche-OE version does not have a rim protector, while the conventional version does.

*The BMW/Porsche-OE version has one layer of Rayon for the body ply material, while the conventional tire has two layers.

*The BMW/Porsche-OE version is manufactured using Michelin's highly automated C3M manufacturing process, while the conventional version appears to be manufactured with standard hand-operated machinery.

[ben@tirerack]

Originally Posted by lucid

If you can find anything on any potential compound differences, that would be great. Thanks.

Could not find anything on the compound. Michelin is not saying, so until someone takes a core sample and sends it to a lab, we are left to speculate. They are all 80 treadwear, and the regular Sport Cup has an outer dry weather compound and an inner wet compound. The N-Spec and + versions are undisclosed with regard to compound.

[lucid]

OK. Thanks for the info.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

What sizes are those prices for??

Check out the tirerack website for available sizes and prices.

[KINGLEH]

is anyone running a PS cup 295-30 in the rear?

[OC ///M]

Lucid: You said the difference between the PS2's was noticible, can you elaborate? Would you recommend them over the OEM PS2's? I don't drive the car in the rain, so I'm not as concerned about the lack of grip in the wet.

[shimmy]

i was told by as michelin rep that the PS2 rubber compound(s) is used on the PSC+ whereas PSC uses different grades in both areas. He was not sure if the difference was entirely across the whole tyre or just on the outer block which on the PSC has shallow scoops

Pic showing both together

[lucid]

To date, I have not seen an official document detailing the compound differences between regular PSC and PSC+ althought I searched pretty hard about a year ago. I have a hard time believing that PS2 and PSC+ have exactly the same compound.

In my experience, PSC+ dealt with heat better, and did not get greasy as quickly as the PS2. PSC+ did feel like they had more bite on the track although I can't say that it was a significant difference.

I used regular PSC on my E30 M3 track car last year, and the regular PSC is noticably stickier than PSC+ when it reaches operating temp.

OC, given how expensive PSC+ tires are, I don't see the benefit/cost ratio being favorable, especially if you will be using them on the street. You can buy my used PSC+ set for $300 and try them if you want as long as you won't be doing wet driving.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259749

[OC ///M]

Originally Posted by shimmy

i was told by as michelin rep that the PS2 rubber compound(s) is used on the PSC+ whereas PSC uses different grades in both areas. He was not sure if the difference was entirely across the whole tyre or just on the outer block which on the PSC has shallow scoops

shimmy:

Thanks for the info and really appreciate the side-by-side pic.

Originally Posted by lucid

To date, I have not seen an official document detailing the compound differences between regular PSC and PSC+ althought I searched pretty hard about a year ago. I have a hard time believing that PS2 and PSC+ have exactly the same compound.

In my experience, PSC+ dealt with heat better, and did not get greasy as quickly as the PS2. PSC+ did feel like they had more bite on the track although I can't say that it was a significant difference.

I used regular PSC on my E30 M3 track car last year, and the regular PSC is noticably stickier than PSC+ when it reaches operating temp.

OC, given how expensive PSC+ tires are, I don't see the benefit/cost ratio being favorable, especially if you will be using them on the street. You can buy my used PSC+ set for $300 and try them if you want as long as you won't be doing wet driving.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259749

lucid: Interesting bit about the material discrepancy between the two. With less than 3 mo left on the lease, my plan was to literally shred through a set of rears by hitting as many track and canyon carving events as I can, ensuring a proper send-off. Your tires or a local used set may be the ticket. Perhaps PSC's would better fit the bill?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by OC kid

Perhaps PSC's would better fit the bill?

I don't think you can find regular PSC tires for this car that will fit on OEM rims. You can try the 235/35 and 265/30 combo, but the loading rating is lower. And you'd have to pay ~$1500 (also, the rolling dia would be ~1" less).

[OC ///M]

Originally Posted by lucid

I don't think you can find regular PSC tires for this car that will fit on OEM rims. You can try the 235/35 and 265/30 combo, but the loading rating is lower. And you'd have to pay ~$1500 (also, the rolling dia would be ~1" less).

OK, then No. PSC+ it is.