To update ECU tune or not

cmichaelo · 09-18-2021, 10:53 AM

I've had the ESS NA tune for my E92 M3 w/ESS HFC X-pipe for a while now. It was a great combination with HP gains particularly noticeable at high RPM.

Now, I've removed the ESS X-pipe and replaced with Macht Schnell test pipes on my stock exhaust.

So essentially the change in the X-pipe is that I used to have

200cpi primary cats w/secondary cat delete

but now I have

Primary cat delete w/200cpi secondary cats

Interestingly, the car is now clearly quieter than with the ESS X-pipe. I like this actually. There is now zero rasp and it's less loud at WOT. Secondly, as for the HP changes, there is now clearly more pull in the midrange RPM. I hear the V8 so much more. (Maybe because the rasp is gone.) The car is overall easier and more pleasing to drive around town. At high RPM I'm unable to feel any differences though. If I had to guess, I might have lost some HP at the top, or maybe I'm just imagining since it's a little quieter at WOT.

Anyway, I called ESS and asked if I should upgrade their ECU tune now that I essentially have relocated the 200cpi cats from the primary position to the secondary position. But they said "No need. What you have will be just fine."

As much as I have always respected ESS and they seem extremely knowledgable about tunes, I would like to get some second opinions...

So would I benefit from a new ECU tune from say BMP, Alex, Evolve, Epic, etc?

alfalfa · 09-18-2021, 11:39 AM

You can waste money if you want but ESS is absolutely right here. There is no change of the tune needed.

Asking here will give you a lot opinions but you should ask yourself: which one would I trust, the guys telling you to change your tune because Alpine, Evolve, Epic is so much better but they don't even know whats in there. Or would you trust the tuner who can sell you another tune even when there is nothing else in it. But this tuner say, no its not necessary.

cmichaelo · 09-18-2021, 01:43 PM

I hear you and I wish I could trust the initial info I got from ESS. However, I don't know this guy who replied to me from ESS. For all that I know, he may not be knowledgable. All I can do with that info is to take it as a data point, and a likely credible data point.

For one thing, I noticed that Evolve and BMP (and Alex too I think) offer separate "Stage 2" tuning options for catless (test pipe) setup.

So wondering if this is just all smoke or there really is more HP to be had from a "Stage 2" catless tune.

Redd · 09-19-2021, 06:51 PM

Two different questions here. Is there a need to change the tune? Probably not. Engine tunes can adapt to small changes like a cat removal. So the ESS tune will run fine.

Can you gain a bit more with a specific Stage 2 tune? Maybe yes. Stage 2 tunes are a bit more aggressive since a cat delete allows for better airflow. I'm don't know how aggressive your ESS tune is, so you may or may not see much difference with a specific Stage 2 tune.

cmichaelo · 09-20-2021, 12:20 PM

The ESS NA tune is specific to their HFC X-pipe w/200cpi cats. I got both in 2017.

Since then, it seems that ESS has abandoned their exhaust line (for e9x at least) and based on the description for the NA tune, it seems they have not updated this in a long time.

I'm getting the impression from ESS that they are totally focusing on forced induction and that they really only are supporting the old, and possibly not too lucrative, NA customer base just to keep them happy. But otherwise they have no intension of putting any more research and options into the NA tune.

So that's another reason why I'm probing on this. Sure, if I just gain 2-3HP on top from a stage 2 tune from BMP, or whatever, then it's not worth it.

tom @ eas · 09-20-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmichaelo

The ESS NA tune is specific to their HFC X-pipe w/200cpi cats. I got both in 2017.

Since then, it seems that ESS has abandoned their exhaust line (for e9x at least) and based on the description for the NA tune, it seems they have not updated this in a long time.

I'm getting the impression from ESS that they are totally focusing on forced induction and that they really only are supporting the old, and possibly not too lucrative, NA customer base just to keep them happy. But otherwise they have no intension of putting any more research and options into the NA tune.

So that's another reason why I'm probing on this. Sure, if I just gain 2-3HP on top from a stage 2 tune from BMP, or whatever, then it's not worth it.

Most updates since have been emissions related past 231/240E, keep in mind the platform has been out of production for 8 years.

There's no gains from moving to a later OS, as the tunes perform great in current form.

09-18-2021, 10:53 AM	#1
cmichaelo Second Lieutenant 46 Rep 221 Posts Drives: '10 E92 M3, '22 Toyota Rav4 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Peekskill, New York iTrader: (0)	To update ECU tune or not I've had the ESS NA tune for my E92 M3 w/ESS HFC X-pipe for a while now. It was a great combination with HP gains particularly noticeable at high RPM. Now, I've removed the ESS X-pipe and replaced with Macht Schnell test pipes on my stock exhaust. So essentially the change in the X-pipe is that I used to have 200cpi primary cats w/secondary cat delete but now I have Primary cat delete w/200cpi secondary cats Interestingly, the car is now clearly quieter than with the ESS X-pipe. I like this actually. There is now zero rasp and it's less loud at WOT. Secondly, as for the HP changes, there is now clearly more pull in the midrange RPM. I hear the V8 so much more. (Maybe because the rasp is gone.) The car is overall easier and more pleasing to drive around town. At high RPM I'm unable to feel any differences though. If I had to guess, I might have lost some HP at the top, or maybe I'm just imagining since it's a little quieter at WOT. Anyway, I called ESS and asked if I should upgrade their ECU tune now that I essentially have relocated the 200cpi cats from the primary position to the secondary position. But they said "No need. What you have will be just fine." As much as I have always respected ESS and they seem extremely knowledgable about tunes, I would like to get some second opinions... So would I benefit from a new ECU tune from say BMP, Alex, Evolve, Epic, etc? __________________ 2011 E92 M3 mods: Alex tune, mod'd X-pipe, MPEv2, MS intake stage 2, ESS power pulley, Monoball bearings, SSFBs, PFv3 rotors, MFactory DSv3, RE SSK, Voltphreaks Li batt. For sale: E92M3: BW Race muffler, front thrust arms, stock muffler, 19" Vorsteiner VFF103 rims Z4MC: KW V3 coilovers (rears)
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09-18-2021, 11:39 AM	#2
alfalfa Private 39 Rep 61 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Munich iTrader: (0)	You can waste money if you want but ESS is absolutely right here. There is no change of the tune needed. Asking here will give you a lot opinions but you should ask yourself: which one would I trust, the guys telling you to change your tune because Alpine, Evolve, Epic is so much better but they don't even know whats in there. Or would you trust the tuner who can sell you another tune even when there is nothing else in it. But this tuner say, no its not necessary.
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09-18-2021, 01:43 PM	#3
cmichaelo Second Lieutenant 46 Rep 221 Posts Drives: '10 E92 M3, '22 Toyota Rav4 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Peekskill, New York iTrader: (0)	I hear you and I wish I could trust the initial info I got from ESS. However, I don't know this guy who replied to me from ESS. For all that I know, he may not be knowledgable. All I can do with that info is to take it as a data point, and a likely credible data point. For one thing, I noticed that Evolve and BMP (and Alex too I think) offer separate "Stage 2" tuning options for catless (test pipe) setup. So wondering if this is just all smoke or there really is more HP to be had from a "Stage 2" catless tune. __________________ 2011 E92 M3 mods: Alex tune, mod'd X-pipe, MPEv2, MS intake stage 2, ESS power pulley, Monoball bearings, SSFBs, PFv3 rotors, MFactory DSv3, RE SSK, Voltphreaks Li batt. For sale: E92M3: BW Race muffler, front thrust arms, stock muffler, 19" Vorsteiner VFF103 rims Z4MC: KW V3 coilovers (rears) Last edited by cmichaelo; 09-18-2021 at 01:55 PM..
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09-19-2021, 06:51 PM	#4
Redd Brigadier General 3900 Rep 4,165 Posts Drives: 2010 BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Malaysia iTrader: (0)	Two different questions here. Is there a need to change the tune? Probably not. Engine tunes can adapt to small changes like a cat removal. So the ESS tune will run fine. Can you gain a bit more with a specific Stage 2 tune? Maybe yes. Stage 2 tunes are a bit more aggressive since a cat delete allows for better airflow. I'm don't know how aggressive your ESS tune is, so you may or may not see much difference with a specific Stage 2 tune.
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09-20-2021, 12:20 PM	#5
cmichaelo Second Lieutenant 46 Rep 221 Posts Drives: '10 E92 M3, '22 Toyota Rav4 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Peekskill, New York iTrader: (0)	The ESS NA tune is specific to their HFC X-pipe w/200cpi cats. I got both in 2017. Since then, it seems that ESS has abandoned their exhaust line (for e9x at least) and based on the description for the NA tune, it seems they have not updated this in a long time. I'm getting the impression from ESS that they are totally focusing on forced induction and that they really only are supporting the old, and possibly not too lucrative, NA customer base just to keep them happy. But otherwise they have no intension of putting any more research and options into the NA tune. So that's another reason why I'm probing on this. Sure, if I just gain 2-3HP on top from a stage 2 tune from BMP, or whatever, then it's not worth it. __________________ 2011 E92 M3 mods: Alex tune, mod'd X-pipe, MPEv2, MS intake stage 2, ESS power pulley, Monoball bearings, SSFBs, PFv3 rotors, MFactory DSv3, RE SSK, Voltphreaks Li batt. For sale: E92M3: BW Race muffler, front thrust arms, stock muffler, 19" Vorsteiner VFF103 rims Z4MC: KW V3 coilovers (rears)
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