I need reasons NOT to buy the GTR.

[Optherion]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Read the long term test via R and T I think... Feb edition quite possibly. At 17k miles they only had to replace the tires (YMMV) and had one service for a whopping 245 dollars or close to it. I dont believe everything I read but the magazine long term test cars do get brutalized.

Bottomline is if you are remotely worried about maintenance- the BMW is the no brainer- the GTR is truly pay to play mentality unless its your non DD.

We have been spoiled with BMW free maintenance. Going to other dealers does seem like gouging. The GT-R maintenance isn't outrageous like everyone says. Nothing beyond what a gt3 with PCCB or an R8 is.

Keep your GT-R stock and you wont have anything to worry about. They made so many changes from 09 to 10, I bet 2011 models have even more improvements.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Optherion

We have been spoiled with BMW free maintenance. Going to other dealers does seem like gouging. The GT-R maintenance isn't outrageous like everyone says. Nothing beyond what a gt3 with PCCB or an R8 is.

Keep your GT-R stock and you wont have anything to worry about. They made so many changes from 09 to 10, I bet 2011 models have even more improvements.

Yes BMW has a good thing going on the service front. I just had a service on my wife's Cayenne GTS and was $450.

[IE#02]

I have an 08 M3 mt and an 09 r35. Both are completely different cars. The gtr has mind blowing performance which you will never get bored of. It is so competent in power delivery and handling. The M3 feels very soft in comparison, but I have to say the manual trans m3 makes for a more involved driving experiance which in some cases makes it more fun - and i love the v8 with no lag. If you don't mind a very firm suspension setup and phone camera paparazzi on every street corner get the gtr!

[STIto335]

[QUOTE=IE#02;6937308]and i love the v8 with no lag/QUOTE]

The M3 V8 has lag with no turbos it's an amazing engine. how they make a 335 have zero lag with 2 turbos and a m3 have a lot of lag with no turbos is quite an engineering accomplishment

[Stunnerable]

My hang up is pretty simple.

No manual, no intrest.

[IE#02]

[QUOTE=STIto335;6940324]

Originally Posted by IE#02

and i love the v8 with no lag/QUOTE]

The M3 V8 has lag with no turbos it's an amazing engine. how they make a 335 have zero lag with 2 turbos and a m3 have a lot of lag with no turbos is quite an engineering accomplishment

To say a 335i has zero lag is nonsense. Its media hype. I had an 07 coupe and when you plant your right foot the car literally yells out in a dopey voice "huh" prior to knocking you into your seat with a sledgehammer.

[Fuzzz]

I've driven both extensively, and they are both amazing machines, but with very different attitudes. It really comes down to what kind of car you want, how you are going to use the car, and if you have other cars to use in different situations.

Regarding the maintenance cost issue... In general I think it is fair to say that BMW is simply charging us upfront for the cost of maintenance by bundling it into the cost of the car, while other manufacturers choose to make us pay as we go.

The one real advantage of the BMW way is that while the car is under warranty you simply bring it in, bitch about everything and anything, and it gets taken care of... there is conversation about what is a warranty issue and what is a service issue... it just gets done.

That being said... if you want a GTR, buy a GTR, just make sure you remember in your head that you still have to pay for service... no big deal .

[///M3Landshark]

Originally Posted by Optherion

We have been spoiled with BMW free maintenance. Going to other dealers does seem like gouging. The GT-R maintenance isn't outrageous like everyone says. Nothing beyond what a gt3 with PCCB or an R8 is.

Keep your GT-R stock and you wont have anything to worry about. They made so many changes from 09 to 10, I bet 2011 models have even more improvements.

Your stable of cars is amazing (F430, R8, M3), as are your sold cars. I'm curious as to the order that you went through purchases and sales and briefly why. Pretty please...

[ucla1995]

I read through this entire thread and I'll add my 2cts since it seems different than most here.
I drove both cars extensively (100 miles in a GT-R, about 50 in an M3) and chose to buy an M3. Why? Well the GT-R felt to me like programming yourself into 'God' mode in a video game - it required no skill to drive like a pro - it was completely uninvolving except for the push. M3 - you needed skill to control the car well and place it into corners properly etc. It was more fun to drive even though it was clearly much slower.

So to me - if you're someone who likes to play video games in 'God' mode (unlimited lives and ammo) - buy a GT-R. If you like the challenge - get the M3.

What I'm most afraid of in the GT-R - is the unskilled drivers who buy one. When those people go back into normal cars I think half of them will wrap themselves around trees because they'll think their abilities are well beyond what they actually are.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

What I'm most afraid of in the GT-R - is the poor drivers who buy one. When those people go back into normal cars I think half of them will wrap themselves around trees because they'll think their abilities are well beyond what they actually are.

Yeah that's it.
Poor schmucks.

[ucla1995]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Yeah that's it.
Poor schmucks.

I meant poor as in unskilled.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

I meant poor as in unskilled.

It still is a weird post. So BMWs are more difficult to handle at the limits? If so, are more BMW drivers crashing than GTR drivers? Or are you just saying GTR owners are unskilled hacks and a true sports car driver would only buy an M3?

[ucla1995]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

It still is a weird post. So BMWs are more difficult to handle at the limits? If so, are more BMW drivers crashing than GTR drivers? Or are you just saying GTR owners are unskilled hacks and a true sports car driver would only buy an M3?

I'm saying that the GT-R is such a good car that it corrects a lot of errors that would get you in trouble with an M3 - so if an unskilled driver got used to that then moved back to a car without that type of technology they could find themselves getting into trouble. That's all I'm saying. There are plenty of skilled drivers who buy GT-Rs too who I wasn't talking about. The GT-R is a better car, but I didn't find it nearly as fun to drive - that's my opinion.

[bobbyd1961]

did you see that back seat in the gtr? no one fits back there.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Optherion

We have been spoiled with BMW free maintenance. Going to other dealers does seem like gouging. The GT-R maintenance isn't outrageous like everyone says. Nothing beyond what a gt3 with PCCB or an R8 is.

Keep your GT-R stock and you wont have anything to worry about. They made so many changes from 09 to 10, I bet 2011 models have even more improvements.

I'm confident that the GT R's maintenance is not high as you say, but it is certainly higher than a gt3 with or without PCCBs. For the record, I have no problem with the GT R as I respect it very much for what it's capable of and more so given its price.

[Htown09]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

I read through this entire thread and I'll add my 2cts since it seems different than most here.
I drove both cars extensively (100 miles in a GT-R, about 50 in an M3) and chose to buy an M3. Why? Well the GT-R felt to me like programming yourself into 'God' mode in a video game - it required no skill to drive like a pro - it was completely uninvolving except for the push. M3 - you needed skill to control the car well and place it into corners properly etc. It was more fun to drive even though it was clearly much slower.

So to me - if you're someone who likes to play video games in 'God' mode (unlimited lives and ammo) - buy a GT-R. If you like the challenge - get the M3.

What I'm most afraid of in the GT-R - is the unskilled drivers who buy one. When those people go back into normal cars I think half of them will wrap themselves around trees because they'll think their abilities are well beyond what they actually are.

Where did you get 100miles in bed with Godzilla?

[ucla1995]

Originally Posted by Htown09

Where did you get 100miles in bed with Godzilla?

One of my best friends owns one. I gave him my boat for a Saturday in exchange.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

I'm saying that the GT-R is such a good car that it corrects a lot of errors that would get you in trouble with an M3 - so if an unskilled driver got used to that then moved back to a car without that type of technology they could find themselves getting into trouble. That's all I'm saying. There are plenty of skilled drivers who buy GT-Rs too who I wasn't talking about. The GT-R is a better car, but I didn't find it nearly as fun to drive - that's my opinion.

I accept that but this whole video gaming anaolgy stuff people keep repeating drives me crazy. It is an ultra high performance car that will still bite you badly if you don't drive well. You can't just point the thing a mash the accelerator.

[Optherion]

Originally Posted by devo

I'm confident that the GT R's maintenance is not high as you say, but it is certainly higher than a gt3 with or without PCCBs. For the record, I have no problem with the GT R as I respect it very much for what it's capable of and more so given its price.

I never said the maintenance was high, I said "The GT-R maintenance isn't outrageous like everyone says. Nothing beyond what a gt3 with PCCB or an R8 is."

I believe the prices were pretty much the same as my gt3 and R8. In fact, in 10k miles, I spent more on the GT-R than I have on the GT3. Were only talking about $1200 in 10k miles vs $900 on the gt3. $300 difference on a car I paid almost 80k for (GT-R) is not that big of deal. My reference was to the fact when I did sell my GT-R, the dealer was saying they would need to replace all the pads and all 4 rotors before they would take it back. Nissan service department estimate was $6200 and some change. I told them to shove it up their a$$ and sold the car privately. 2nd owner put a whole set of new rotors AND calipers on for less.

[JMD0977]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I accept that but this whole video gaming anaolgy stuff people keep repeating drives me crazy. It is an ultra high performance car that will still bite you badly if you don't drive well. You can't just point the thing a mash the accelerator.

The bottom line is that AWD cars are easier to drive at the limit than RWD cars. Not matter how you put it.

[JMD0977]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I accept that but this whole video gaming anaolgy stuff people keep repeating drives me crazy. It is an ultra high performance car that will still bite you badly if you don't drive well. You can't just point the thing a mash the accelerator.

The bottom line is that AWD cars are easier to drive at the limit than RWD cars. Not matter how you put it.

[JMD0977]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I accept that but this whole video gaming anaolgy stuff people keep repeating drives me crazy. It is an ultra high performance car that will still bite you badly if you don't drive well. You can't just point the thing a mash the accelerator.

It is not an ultra high performance car; its a high performance car... and all AWD cars are easier to drive at the limit than a RWD car, no matter how you want to put it.