BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-12-2012, 02:09 PM   #1
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Worst dyno ever? - Update

Went for my first "baseline" dyno run last week before putting on the Akra midpipe I bought, and the results look pretty bad. Did 4 pulls on their Dynojet, all fairly consistent results. My car is an 08 E90 (2/08 build), 6MT, running Shell 91 Octane and the only relevant mod installed now is an Akra rear section. Overall conditions were warm (high 80s) but that shouldn't have been an issue.

Trying not to go off the deep end here but any suggestions for things to look for as possible issues? I can't believe these results are within normal variance of the S65. I am in Denver but the results shown below have been adjusted. (see further down for unadjusted results)



I am the original owner and never have had a tune. Service issues have been relatively minor. BMW did reprogram the car 12-18 months ago trying to find an electric gremlin in the stereo and it mentioned other "updates"... Thanks in advance.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...

Last edited by signes; 11-14-2012 at 10:57 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #2
j2m
Colonel
j2m's Avatar
Canada
180
Rep
2,446
Posts

Drives: '11 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [10.00]
How many miles are on your car?
__________________

11' E92 M3 Space Grey | DCT | ESS VT2- 625 | Gintani Race (valved) + Quad Res Catless X-Pipe | KW Sleeve's | GC Camber Plates|Arkym Diffuser | Vorsteiner VRS Lip | P3 Boost Guage | Stud Conversion
PHOTO's: Click Here ESS VT2 625 PHOTOS: Click Here
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:32 PM   #3
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

About 38k right now.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:40 PM   #4
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
Singletrack's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
3,850
Posts

Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 19 FG M5C
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (3)

Did they log IAT, AFR, or any timing values?

Did they have significant fans pointed at the correct places on the car?

MT or DCT? Which gear did they dyno in?
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:42 PM   #5
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8058
Rep
18,786
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
About 38k right now.
We've seen the same on MY08s, just had another one last week with gains of ~16whp after updates were applied. If the vehicle was purchased used, there is a chance no updates were ever applied or worse - an early performance tune loaded with no follow-up diagnostics.

A VIN check with your dealer will show maintenance history. Since you're the original owner - this is a bit easier to backtrack. BMW reprogramming for electrical gremlins doesn't necessarily mean the DME was touched.

Check the condition of your plugs and have the DME reprogrammed with the latest updates (v2.46.x) and dyno again with a new tank of fuel. It's certain your lost power is within one (or multiple) of those variables, assuming dyno procedures were properly followed.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:51 PM   #6
1MOREMOD
-
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
11815
Rep
23,187
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

i have an early 08 build also and love the car but am scared i might be in the same boat. i did already have the software updated previously by bmw then again by evolve. seems the later years have a little more hp even though bmw choose not to advertise it.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|apr gt 250 & splitter|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:33 PM   #7
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,555
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

I asked the dealer to update the software in my 08E90M3 and they refused. They will do only what BMW will pay for (meaning the car must "need" an update due to a problem) unless you want to pay them.

I noticed you are in CO and on 91 octane. Altitude costs 3% per 1000 feet and 91 octane costs another 3 percent, but the SAE correction should have dealt with the altitude.

I will get mine on a dyno this year to see how it fares.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:39 PM   #8
Dave07997S
Brigadier General
707
Rep
3,947
Posts

Drives: 2020 Ford Mustang GT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: El Segundo, CA

iTrader: (1)

I would get the updates and do basic maintainence. New airfilter (maybe at this time get a AFE, BMC, MS or other replacement filter). I mean my baseline dyno for my 2011 M3 was 345rwhp and almost 260 tq. This was the mid base numbers from the 3 runs..Car only had 1500 miles on her, but it did have 93 octane.



To be off by almost 40rwhp is a ton, unless the dyno operator did something wrong.

BTW, the day of this dyno they strapped down a brand new 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 and it did 366rwhp/350tq...I felt small and puny..

Dave
__________________
2020 Ford Mustang GT 6MT PP1 444rwhp
(Sold)2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #9
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Did they log IAT, AFR, or any timing values?

Did they have significant fans pointed at the correct places on the car?

MT or DCT? Which gear did they dyno in?
Car is 6MT.

I've got the run files and looked at the results in WinPEP - can I see using that software if the other variables were recorded? They had several large fans running, 2-3 of which were right in front of the main intake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
We've seen the same on MY08s, just had another one last week with gains of ~16whp after updates were applied. If the vehicle was purchased used, there is a chance no updates were ever applied or worse - an early performance tune loaded with no follow-up diagnostics.

A VIN check with your dealer will show maintenance history. Since you're the original owner - this is a bit easier to backtrack. BMW reprogramming for electrical gremlins doesn't necessarily mean the DME was touched.

Check the condition of your plugs and have the DME reprogrammed with the latest updates (v2.46.x) and dyno again with a new tank of fuel. It's certain your lost power is within one (or multiple) of those variables, assuming dyno procedures were properly followed.
I am the original owner (from ~30 miles) and have all service history. I had one CEL issue previously but I think it was a bad O2 sensor or something minor, otherwise no issues. They did reprogram the DME, will check the version from the service records. They said they took the opportunity to do all available updates applicable to my car.

I will try with another batch of fuel and try and corroborate the results. I talked to the dealer and they said unless there is a fault, there is nothing they can do (I would have to pay to have it reprogrammed to the latest version.) Is the v2.46.x applicable to 6MT cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
i have an early 08 build also and love the car but am scared i might be in the same boat. i did already have the software updated previously by bmw then again by evolve. seems the later years have a little more hp even though bmw choose not to advertise it.
Would be curious to see other results. I have seen several around 320 or so but nothing this low...
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:42 PM   #10
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Oh boy, my '08 with typical bolt-ons goes in for an Evolve tune and before and after dyno. I hope I fare better than you. I must say, my M3 doesn't feel feel like it has 100+ more HP than my old 350Z with bolt-ons. I'm kinda worried.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:47 PM   #11
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post

To be off by almost 40rwhp is a ton, unless the dyno operator did something wrong.

Dave
Exactly, this is what worries me most. It is so far out of line that it cannot be explained by production variance. Also, 91 octane is the highest out here. I saw an article of how octane and altitude interact but can't find it now. To really make me cry, here are the unadjusted results...



The dyno shop has done 50+ E9x M3 runs and showed me some of the other results under similar conditions. The other cars were around ~340whp.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...

Last edited by signes; 04-12-2012 at 03:52 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #12
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
127
Rep
6,773
Posts

Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

Disappointing numbers
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #13
rjd598
Banned
United_States
1770
Rep
6,696
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
winner you take the award. seriously though hope u get it figure out and ur car is ok
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:00 PM   #14
Sales@Evolve
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
92
Rep
1,064
Posts


Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

iTrader: (0)

What is the correction factor SAE here?? Looks like 20%!

What gear was this done in?

Can you post up the conditions please. If the barometric pressure is extremely low it might explain the very poor results.

Log the ignition timing.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:19 PM   #15
kawchkjf
Private
5
Rep
69
Posts

Drives: 2009 bmw m3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: canada

iTrader: (0)

Am I the only person who sees nothing wrong with this dyno sheet?

The numbers doesn't mean anything. It may just be a low reading dyno, and a very consistent one that is.

What we should look for is consistency, and then do some mods and check the delta.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:25 PM   #16
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
What is the correction factor SAE here?? Looks like 20%!

What gear was this done in?

Can you post up the conditions please. If the barometric pressure is extremely low it might explain the very poor results.

Log the ignition timing.
SAE correction factor is shown as 1.27. Pulls in 4th. Conditions:

Temp: 88.4F - 90.18F
Bar Pressure: 24.13 - 24.19 in-Hg
Humidity: 5%

Uploaded one of the run files if anybody is interesting in looking at more. Not sure how to see if they logged more data.
Attached Files
File Type: zip RunFile_003 signes.zip (3.7 KB, 134 views)
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #17
PhillyNate
ENTHUSIAST
PhillyNate's Avatar
United_States
135
Rep
2,097
Posts

Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
I would get the updates and do basic maintainence. New airfilter (maybe at this time get a AFE, BMC, MS or other replacement filter). I mean my baseline dyno for my 2011 M3 was 345rwhp and almost 260 tq. This was the mid base numbers from the 3 runs..Car only had 1500 miles on her, but it did have 93 octane.



To be off by almost 40rwhp is a ton, unless the dyno operator did something wrong.
...yet another strong 2011 dyno though. Something is weird.
__________________
"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt
2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15)
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14)
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11
)
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #18
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawchkjf View Post
Am I the only person who sees nothing wrong with this dyno sheet?

The numbers doesn't mean anything. It may just be a low reading dyno, and a very consistent one that is.

What we should look for is consistency, and then do some mods and check the delta.
Normally, I think that everyone would agree with you but this particular dyno is just too low. Something here is not right.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 07:02 PM   #19
sensi09
Lieutenant Colonel
30
Rep
1,789
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: socal

iTrader: (1)

Try and find out what other stock m3s have put up on that particular dyno.

Some won't agree, but a quick run against another m3 will quickly let you know if you're down on power.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 08:05 PM   #20
M3Denver
Lieutenant
M3Denver's Avatar
21
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Denver CO

iTrader: (0)

What kind of Dyno is it?
Higher octane gas is available at Hill petroleum/Sunoco / vpfuels in Denver FYI
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 08:22 PM   #21
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1119
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

I'm going to look at this file later tonight !
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #22
M3DCTBT
First Lieutenant
34
Rep
372
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (2)

6000ft above sea level (denver) will do that to you. Never seen a dyno fully correct for it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST