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07-01-2008, 04:49 PM | #23 |
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I have DCT. The lag is def there off the line, no questions. It it simply the car easing out the clutch. I have absolutely no problems with the lag or any other function of the DCT. It isn't until I come here and read these comments that make me ever question the pure perfection that I feel with my DCT. If you stop and nitpick every little thing you will ALWAYS find something. I can tell you first hand there is no other transmission out there that beats this IMHO. Every drive still puts a smile on my face.
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07-01-2008, 04:51 PM | #24 | |
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also, the car does not require you to push the pedal all the way to go...i was just trying to demonstrate that there is a delay regardless of how quickly you mash the pedal. in the past, i've read that the delay disappears if you simply give it more throttle..just emphasizing that this is not the case. also, demonstrating that the delay is AT LEAST the time required to (mash the pedal down + very short wait) Last edited by ajj; 07-01-2008 at 05:07 PM.. |
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07-01-2008, 05:01 PM | #25 | |||
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Jason
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07-01-2008, 05:07 PM | #26 | |
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For those of you past break-in who have tried Launch Control with the DCT, how long does it take to get it set up and ready to launch? Only a few seconds? I suppose with some practice, you can make it almost second nature, but I'd be worried about the light turning green and the other guy being long gone before I got it set up. |
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07-01-2008, 07:22 PM | #27 |
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What a great article! My two favorite lines:
1.] "...a million times better than the dull-witted SMG that blights the M5" 2.] "The DCT transmission takes the M3, already BMW's best, most rounded performance car, to a new level." Set and match!!
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07-01-2008, 07:57 PM | #28 |
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There are two issues here (and maybe three from imprecise language) let's make sure we are precise and keep them separate.
1. "Lag". Commonly used to describe the feeling of the throttle mapping and clutch engagement in M-DCT when taking off from a stop. The car simply feels a bit slow and feels like it takes quite a bit of throttle to get her moving. This effect is clearly and effectively reduced by simply pressing the gas faster and further. 1a. "Shift delay" (some call this lag as well). More noticeable when upshifting compared to downshifting and more noticeable and lengthy when in an intermediate throttle range. When you click the lever or paddle and carefully watch the tach there is a very short (on the order of tens of milliseconds, I'd guess) delay after the stick/paddle actuation until you see the beginning of the shift as evidenced by the change in rpm. When you are at high throttle and shifting close to redline this M-DCT can more effectively guess the proper next gear thereby reducing this lag. This delay is often even more insignificant when upshifting. Either way it is very short and IMHO does not detract from the experience unless you really obsess about it. 2. "Lag". Much better described as "launch preparation delay (without LC)". When you want to really take off hard but you are not using LC the system is aware of what you want and adapts, changing the clutch engagement orchestration. When you want to take off at slow or medium pace the clutch for 1st gear begins to engage immediately upon any pressure to the pedal. In this way the take off feels much like a good auto or a MT and provides immediate movement of the car. However, when you really want to take off harder and move the gas pedal very fast and very far the system knows what you are doing, lets the revs build, holds the clutch on 1st open and then at a fixed/high rpm almost drops the clutch like LC. This is REQUIRED behavior to get a harder launch with a near clutch drop. It would definitely not be a good idea to simply slip the clutch out regardless of the gas pedal travel and speed starting from a dead stop. You could not get a harder launch. You may hate this (Davo does) as it can interfere with timing a stop light drag race but do ask yourself should the system really work any other way? Clearly it is doing the absolute best it can. If you do not like this delay the obvious choice is to use LC, which has absolutely no such effect. (Note JEllis: when you took a spin in my car we never took off hard enough to experience this delay). I think I have summarized all of these effects about four times now. Maybe at some point it will be clear, but I won't keep my fingers crossed. It never hurts to read! |
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07-02-2008, 05:09 AM | #31 |
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I drove the new M3 back in October 2007 when it launched here in New Zealand. The setting was at an A1GP track (Taupo). I must say I was very disappointed at that time with the manual transmission. Gearing was too tall, clutch very soft, throws too long - overall the feel was just not right. That day I blew the clutch, so I put some of my negative feelings down to the clutch being in an already abused state.
I'm currently an Audi RS4 B7 owner, and seriously the Audi transmission is miles ahead of the M3 MT. Gearing is shorter, throws are short and quick, and shifting is notchy and precise. The clutch on the RS4 is also much beefier. For these reasons, I decided against changing out of the RS4 into an M3. Just a couple of weeks ago I by pure chance was given the opportunity to drive the M3 DCT. I was literally blown away by just how good it is. The thing I like best is the constant power delivery between shifts - the feeling is intoxicating and addictive, it's something you could never hope to replicate in a manual transmission, even if your shifts are lightning quick. The other aspect of the M3 DCT is that the gearing is much shorter from 2nd gear onwards - even shorter than the RS4, more like a Subaru STI (which I used to own before the RS4). The shorter gearing makes the car feel a lot peppier, gives better low-to-mid range torque around town and the fun factor normal daily driving conditions is increased. Now the M3 DCT I drove was a coupe - I'm a 4-door man and wanted to test drive the M3 sedan just to get a feeling for the car. I was supplied with an M3 sedan, but with the manual transmission. Unfortunately my initial thoughts from October about the MT were confirmed - after driving the DCT transmission, driving the manual transmission is such a step down in terms of overall driving experience and fun factor. The M3 DCT gives the M3 a dose of what to date the E92 M3 has lacked - character. As much as I hate to admit it, the M3 DCT is a better car than my RS4. The DCT gives it just as much low down performance, and the high RPM performance easily exceeds my (modified - ECU remap + downpipes + exhaust + intake) RS4 - BMW stuffed it up with the manual variant, but they damn well got it right with the DCT. I think these sentiments are echoed in the local New Zealand market - 27 manual transmission M3s are sitting at BMW New Zealand unsold (New Zealand has a population of just over 4 Million people) - and the DCT transmission is a 6 month wait. I'm now one of those customers that has to endure that long wait... |
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07-02-2008, 07:48 AM | #32 | |
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Of course none of this is going to stop me from choosing M-DCT outright. If it feels right on the test drive, then I'm in. |
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07-03-2008, 12:27 AM | #33 | |
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Automated manual software is at something like "v2.0" with the M3, GT-R and Evo. I'm sure versions 3, 4, etc. will be even better. But again, that being said I find it really hard to find many faults of any real significance in the M-DCT. |
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07-10-2008, 01:29 PM | #34 | |
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if the DCT car is 4 tenths quicker to 100mph how is it only 1 tenth faster than the 6spd in the 1/4 mile? does the 6spd magically catch up in the very last bit of the 1/4 mile run?
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07-11-2008, 10:13 AM | #35 | |
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the 1/4 mile time may not be the same data as used for the 0-100 |
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07-11-2008, 11:25 PM | #36 |
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i understand that, but the difference is pretty significant. especially considering 2 tenths of the DCT advantage comes from a roll. does this mean there is a ton more potential left in the DCT car in the 1/4 mile? or did they sandbag the 6spd in the other tests?
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