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08-01-2011, 03:49 PM | #67 |
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++1. There is some serious denial going on here....it's almost laughable. People making up up BS again about a car they have probably never driven. No one wants to believe Nissan built an amazing car. I guess the M3s used in Car and Driver comparison tests were also tuned.
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08-01-2011, 10:34 PM | #68 |
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Singletrack... I think it just comes down to Imports of all makes (Japan/Euro/Italian) can't make a stick that compares to how the American manufactures do them. The first 2 of 3 examples you shared, I've driven, and they were crap and worse than the M3 IMO as well...
The best Manual Trans I can remember was actually my '89 C4 Corvette... with the ZF German made gearbox, that trans was butter... and missed shifts were none existent, as was the ability to powershift (no lift) every gear, and never grind a gear... Not sure how they could get that trans so 'right' and all the euro stuff today now so wrong... personally, it's probably more 'linkage' setups than the actual trans itself, as it seems they are no longer attached to the actual transcase like back then? But (IMO) the euro and jap manuals just feel loose and a bit 'disconnected' from the rest of the chassis, in my track experience. I was a die-hard manual guy... and both my dedicated track cars still are... but only due to two main reasons: a.) they're older... 3rd & 4th Gen F-Body's.. so no DCT stuff in dem days! b.) It seems the DCT cars are having a tough time with heating issues on track... fine for a few track days here and there... but not yet up to the task of full on races, whereas the standard manuals don't generate the same heat... in the 'retail/general public' vehicles. Purpose built Race Duty, PDK/DCT and others are fine... but we aren't getting anything close to those in production cars yet. All my street cars are now DCT cars... as once you 'admit' how they can do everything so much better, they can be quite enjoyable to drive every day... whether like an old man, or on a spirited jaunt! I don't expect to convert anyone... it took me YEARS to finally give in.. but once I purchased my SMG M5... it was obvious... even that prehistoric beginning of DCT today... was so intoxicating in S6 DSC off going through gears on the track/street etc... The one recommendation I can make to any 'hard-core' 6 speed enthusiasts... is if you'd like to give a DCT/SMG a fair shake... be sure to have all traction controls disabled... and trans in absolute fastest/race position... then drive around... even part throttle like you 'normally' would... and feel how connected everything feels... then do some spirited driving as well... and then you may think different. Peace, Dave
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2010 ZR1 3ZR Wht/Blk 10.7 @ 132
2011 C63 AMG P31 Car Blk/Blk 11.8 @ 117 2010 Nissan GT-R 10.8 @ 129 (Sold) 2008 Lexus IS-F (Sold) 12.5 @ 113 / 2008 Shelby GT500 (Sold) 11.3 @ 126 2008 e90 M3 6MT 12.8 @ 111 (Sold) / 2006 e60 M5 12.4 @ 114 (Sold) |
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08-01-2011, 10:44 PM | #69 | |
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Trust me... in my days racing in Touring 2... I HATED watching these guys in their unlimted Boost, AWD subi's & Evo's... take corners absolutely ASS BACKWARDS... and just full on counter lock the wheel... foot to the floor, and just pull out ahead, while I was having to 'moderate' throttle, and actually drive the 'line' unwind the wheel etc.. Yes... because on the 'road course' you never need to shift 1st to 2nd... (a huge weakness in the trans)... and also because on a road course, 'smooth consistency' is far more valuable than absolute speed... but I finally got sick and tired of my M3 Manual, grinding under the occasional freeway 'race' encounter from even 3 to 4... that I had to move on... just couldn't accept it in a $60K car IMO
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2010 ZR1 3ZR Wht/Blk 10.7 @ 132
2011 C63 AMG P31 Car Blk/Blk 11.8 @ 117 2010 Nissan GT-R 10.8 @ 129 (Sold) 2008 Lexus IS-F (Sold) 12.5 @ 113 / 2008 Shelby GT500 (Sold) 11.3 @ 126 2008 e90 M3 6MT 12.8 @ 111 (Sold) / 2006 e60 M5 12.4 @ 114 (Sold) |
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08-01-2011, 11:01 PM | #70 | |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
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08-01-2011, 11:16 PM | #71 | |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
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If you think the STi 6sp sucks, then we are just on different planets. If the only reference is a 89 vette then I'm afraid I can't relate. Sounds like there were problems with your m3 tranny which sucks and is frustrating, but I can assure you that I have no such issue. A ssk also makes it much more precise and I do think the stock throws are too long and sloppy, although smooth with the exception of 1st to 2nd. |
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08-02-2011, 12:09 AM | #72 |
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STI comment was harsh... maybe not sucks... just not 'solid' ... the '89 corvette reference is dated... but was only to make a point that Germans have made awesome manual transmissions... go drive a newer Z-06 or Viper gearbox... and you'll see what I mean... they are for more 'solid' feeling and precise when compared to the M3.
I did complain about my M3 shifting... and had the entire clutch/pressure plate & flywheel replaced... but didn't do anything.... it's the long throws... and just design of the trans... IMO
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2010 ZR1 3ZR Wht/Blk 10.7 @ 132
2011 C63 AMG P31 Car Blk/Blk 11.8 @ 117 2010 Nissan GT-R 10.8 @ 129 (Sold) 2008 Lexus IS-F (Sold) 12.5 @ 113 / 2008 Shelby GT500 (Sold) 11.3 @ 126 2008 e90 M3 6MT 12.8 @ 111 (Sold) / 2006 e60 M5 12.4 @ 114 (Sold) |
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08-02-2011, 07:14 AM | #73 | |
Bimmer me up
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I heard that Nissan was using orphan tears as fuel & unicorn blood as lubricant. If true this is just plain unfair. |
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08-02-2011, 12:20 PM | #74 |
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Some great points you made there. My STi was really quick but never gave me that overall feeling of impending doom. The M3 at redline terrifies me and that's what keeps me going back for more. Sounds lame, but whatever floats your boat right? Turbos and AWD are quiet, boring, and don't require the finesse and sensitivity of a high-strung RWD platform.
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08-05-2011, 04:33 PM | #76 |
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I am basically allergic to anything but a stick shift but spending time in both the DCT and 6 speed variants of the M3 it's clear that DCT is superior. The shifter in the M3 is too long and mushy.
The best shifter's I've ever used: -Honda S2000 -Miata -Mitsubishi Evo 8 and 10 -350Z (1 redeeming quality of that terrible car) STi shifters are terrible. Corvettes are OK. The one in my Mustang is a little better. DCT in the M3 is sublime. I don't care if it is "cheating", it's just as involving as any manual and anyone who tells you differently has some sort of strange left foot fetish going on. |
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08-06-2011, 01:24 PM | #77 | |
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