PFC 11 vs 01

[will.c]

Has anyone tried the 11 compound? I'm wondering if I should give them a try or just get the 01 w/ proven track record.

[evilspiritM3]

Very similar in performance and wear to the 01. My understanding is that the 11 is replacing the 01.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by evilspiritM3

Very similar in performance and wear to the 01. My understanding is that the 11 is replacing the 01.

Correct, and the 13 is the new top-spec sprint pad. The 12 seems to be the replacement for the 08s.

[JAJ]

I'm sitting on the sidelines after this second major change in the PFC product line in the last five years. Frankly I like the 01, so for as long it's available I'll probably just buy it.

The venerable PFC-01 is one of the winningest brake pads ever. With an MOT of 2,000 degrees, PFC-01 was the go-to front compound for many privateers and for factory teams like BMW Motorsports and Ford Racing. Then came the 06 that was supposed to replace the 01, but the 06 has now been replaced by the 12. Meanwhile the 01 replacement is now the 11 - but wait, didn't I just read that the 01 became the 06 and then the 12? Apparently nobody at PFC actually reads the stuff they're publishing.

For sheer entertainment, the marketing descriptions for bite are hard to beat: the 11 has "improved bite", the 12 has "excellent bite", the 13 has "increased bite". Even the good old 01 doesn't evade capture by the marketing gurus - I'm sure we're all delighted to discover that it has "good initial bite". Who knew!?

For some reason, PFC believes that out of this blizzard of useless words we'll have the supernatural ability to pick the right brake pad for the next track day or the next race. It's pathetic.

So far, Ferodo and Raybestos are the only racing pad companies that I've found that actually publish their torque curves. Then you can pick your brake feel, bite and progression straight off the chart. If you need a little more bias to the front or rear, you can choose compounds to get exactly what you want. But if you don't want to use Raybestos or Ferodo, then you have to do what everybody in the sport does - ask the guys in the paddock what they're running and whether or not they like it. You'd think it would be a little more scientific, but apparently not.

[Estoril Blue]

I have been 110% satisfied with the PFC-01. Why they have to fool with it escapes my understanding. Performance Friction's explanation does noting to clarify it, IMO.

Bimmerworld tells me that the -11 compound is supposed to have a little less initial bite and longer wear.

What are those of us who want that greater initial bite and are willing to sacrifice long wear to get it - supposed to do?

PF is fooling with a very good product that there was nothing wrong with. IMO they aren't doing their customers any favors with this change.

[will.c]

Agreed on the ambiguity of their descriptions. I simply had no idea what "replaces 01" means exactly, so I thought I'd ask here. Well it seems like I'm gonna just get another set of 01s for now. Thanks guys.

[admranger]

Unless you are racing, get 08's (or whatever the latest version of that is...). Decent initial bite (better than the 06's in my opinion) and they wear like iron. I have 08's for the E90M3 and 06's for the E46M3 (they won't wear out!).

Using PFC direct drive rotors and PFC 06's on the E46M3 on RE-11's, I've measured wear from the last two, 2-day bmw driving school's that I instructed at. ~0.001" all around each weekend. At that rate, I'll have to change out my front rotors in 50 more track weekends...

[will.c]

Originally Posted by admranger

Unless you are racing, get 08's (or whatever the latest version of that is...). Decent initial bite (better than the 06's in my opinion) and they wear like iron. I have 08's for the E90M3 and 06's for the E46M3 (they won't wear out!).

Using PFC direct drive rotors and PFC 06's on the E46M3 on RE-11's, I've measured wear from the last two, 2-day bmw driving school's that I instructed at. ~0.001" all around each weekend. At that rate, I'll have to change out my front rotors in 50 more track weekends...

Thanks for the input. I have 06s right now. Did 10 days on them and I'm just about 30% left. I guess I could practically run them another weekend, but PCA wants at least 50%, so eh.. I'll just keep em as back up.

Maybe it's because you got the PFC rotors, but I haven't gotten what I really wanted w/ Centric rotors & the 06s. I've had 01s before, and I can def tell the bite's not there, but moreover torque modulation and fade resistance are just not comparable to 01s. And I did as much as one could do w/ stock brakes... rebuilt, lubricated guides, fresh RBF600, 2.5" brake ducts.

Then I asked around if it's time for me to get BBK. Many ppl said great drivers are efficient w/ brakes, and thus stock brakes are sufficient. I know I suck and over-brake, so I agreed and decided not to do BBK and concentrate on my braking technique.

I guess this is my last attempt to get "good" w/ brakes, the 01s. But I knew 11s just came out, so I was wondering what the reviews are.

(Ha, I guess I'm in a chatty mood right now. )

[AxisMagi]

I recently needed a pad refresh and made the switch from PFC 01's to 11.
01's had more bite and aggressiveness to me, 11's feel smoother
with better modulation, especially towards the end of the brake zone.
Both are great pads and I'm happy to keep running them. Combined
with stoptech trophy's the braking power is phenomenal.
The 01's lasted me a whole season and were so good that I
didn't feel the need to go for the enduro pads.

~Axis

[sungjungsc]

I was in the same shoes with you 3 weeks ago. I called in several big PFC vendors for BMW and Porsche, and most of vendors including apex-performance (big vendor in rennlist for porsche + i talked to the owner who had lots of feedback from both pads including himself) agreed that 11 is not an exact replacement for 01. Most of them told me 11 has less bite while it modulates a bit smoother. I ended up getting another set of 01s for my m3 after more than an hour of discussion with vendors who actually ran both pads. My advice would be keep using 01 if you liked them. There's no need to change it if you like them. For last 8 months, i've gone through probably 2 sets of race pads (XP-12 & PFC-01), very aggressive hybrid pad (Endless MX-72), street pads (OEM & Stoptech), and I loved PFC-01 the most on the track, while MX-72 was decent for both street and track. Hopefully, it helps!

[sungjungsc]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

I have been 110% satisfied with the PFC-01. Why they have to fool with it escapes my understanding. Performance Friction's explanation does noting to clarify it, IMO.

Bimmerworld tells me that the -11 compound is supposed to have a little less initial bite and longer wear.

What are those of us who want that greater initial bite and are willing to sacrifice long wear to get it - supposed to do?

PF is fooling with a very good product that there was nothing wrong with. IMO they aren't doing their customers any favors with this change.

Exactly! but probably similar wear, a bit better wear, not close to 08.

[will.c]

Update:
Last DE I used 06s for Sat and swapped to 01s for Sun. After how I directly compared the two, I feel obligated to let those know who's on the fence about 01 vs 06 that it was completely night and day difference. I always had some sort of vibrations with the 06 no matter how & how many times I bedded and re-bedded, especially when after about 4-5 laps or so when they are (over)heated. 01s now have ZERO vibration issues whatsoever. Completely smooth as butter on baby's ass. I really could start to shed my braking distances, and even get enough braking confidence to modulate into trailbraking! This is not quite 01 vs 11, but I thought everyone should know.

As to the original question, I will def get 01s for as long as I could possibly get my hands on them.

[AxisMagi]

It sounds like PFC's new 13 compound is more comparable to the 01
super bite and aggressiveness.

http://www.performancefriction.com/R...riptions_0.pdf

[Groundpilot]

It looks like PFC-01s are the best pads for our cars as far as pure braking performance goes. I have never heard anything negative about them.
Interested to hear about PFC-13 compound feedback.
Has anyone used them on the track yet?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by will.c

Update:
Last DE I used 06s for Sat and swapped to 01s for Sun. After how I directly compared the two, I feel obligated to let those know who's on the fence about 01 vs 06 that it was completely night and day difference. I always had some sort of vibrations with the 06 no matter how & how many times I bedded and re-bedded, especially when after about 4-5 laps or so when they are (over)heated. 01s now have ZERO vibration issues whatsoever. Completely smooth as butter on baby's ass. I really could start to shed my braking distances, and even get enough braking confidence to modulate into trailbraking! This is not quite 01 vs 11, but I thought everyone should know.

As to the original question, I will def get 01s for as long as I could possibly get my hands on them.

I think if you are raised on PF01s...you'll never like the PF06s or PF08s and vice versa.

[will.c]

Another update:

I went to WGI for the first time ever. Total 9 sessions over 3 days so more equivalent to 2 days for typical clubs. Two issues I found with my current brake setup:

1) Smooth and high braking torque for about 5 laps, then they start to fade. Pedal pressure is still really stiff, but the braking torque is slightly & incrementally reduced at each deep braking zone. Meanwhile there are no vibrations at all. Taking it easy for a few laps returns the full torque, but after some more hot laps same thing happens again. Is this what's called "pad fade?"

2) 4 sessions at Summit Main & 9 sessions at Watkins Glen (my first times on these particular tracks) ate up pretty much all of my new front PFC01s, and now I have less than 1/8" left!

Is this normal wear? Did I just spend $300 on front pads alone through not even 2 weekends? What do I need to do to get rid of this fade - Slotted rotors? Will this fade get worse if I get NT01s next?

Current setup:
E46 M3, PFC01 fronts, PFC06 rears, centric blanks at all four (non-comp size), 2.5" front brake ducting, freshly bled RBF600, stock suspension, Star Spec Z2s.

[admranger]

01's are full sprint race pads. They go away pretty quickly, but they put your nose on the windshield.

For HPDE stuff, use 08's. Good, not fantastic initial bite, but they last and last and last. I've never experienced fade in Vegas temps on track.

[will.c]

Originally Posted by admranger

01's are full sprint race pads. They go away pretty quickly, but they put your nose on the windshield.

For HPDE stuff, use 08's. Good, not fantastic initial bite, but they last and last and last. I've never experienced fade in Vegas temps on track.

I tried 06s and I hated them. Massive vibrations when they got really hot. Aren't 08s even less aggressive then the 06s?

Well, anyways, I guess I can give them a try... a reluctant one, but it's prob worth an attempt to avoid shelling out $2-300 on pads every weekend.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by will.c

I tried 06s and I hated them. Massive vibrations when they got really hot. Aren't 08s even less aggressive then the 06s?

Well, anyways, I guess I can give them a try... a reluctant one, but it's prob worth an attempt to avoid shelling out $2-300 on pads every weekend.

I have 06's on the E46M3 -- no issues. The 08's are on the E90M3 and in my experience have more initial bite and a higher torque overall than the 06's. When the 06's die (if ever) on the E46M3, I'd get 08's to replace them. This experience has been gathered at instructor level driving, but on street tires (re-11's on both cars).

You won't be disappointed with the 08's.

Make sure you do the heaviest braking at the beginning of the braking zone. In other words, don't keep increasing pressure over a long distance, but rather (smoothly) get to max braking pressure as fast as possible w/o upsetting the balance. Plus, you'll have maximum cooling air flow at the same time, helping lower wear rates.

[turugara]

Originally Posted by will.c

Update:
Last DE I used 06s for Sat and swapped to 01s for Sun. After how I directly compared the two, I feel obligated to let those know who's on the fence about 01 vs 06 that it was completely night and day difference. I always had some sort of vibrations with the 06 no matter how & how many times I bedded and re-bedded, especially when after about 4-5 laps or so when they are (over)heated. 01s now have ZERO vibration issues whatsoever. Completely smooth as butter on baby's ass. I really could start to shed my braking distances, and even get enough braking confidence to modulate into trailbraking! This is not quite 01 vs 11, but I thought everyone should know.

As to the original question, I will def get 01s for as long as I could possibly get my hands on them.

01's all day... On my third set.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by will.c

Current setup:
E46 M3, PFC01 fronts, PFC06 rears, centric blanks at all four (non-comp size), 2.5" front brake ducting, freshly bled RBF600, stock suspension, Star Spec Z2s.

As I've always said...the stock setup works fine with the right upgrades. But a BBK will last a lot longer. I've rotated a set of PF01s and ST SR34 pads on my 4 wheel BBK and still have both sets of pads after 12 weekends of use. Although the pads are close to done...they still have a weekend or two left.

Originally Posted by admranger

01's are full sprint race pads. They go away pretty quickly, but they put your nose on the windshield.

For HPDE stuff, use 08's. Good, not fantastic initial bite, but they last and last and last. I've never experienced fade in Vegas temps on track.

I think the PF08s have a higher temp threshold than the PF01s. Because the one thing I've noticed with the PF01s is they will still stop no matter how hot they are...but you'll be losing a ton of pad driving them beyond their temp limits.

PF01s will last as long as you don't cook them every session.

[will.c]

Hmm interesting info. I guess that explains why my 01s disappeared in 1 weekend while experiencing pad fade like symptoms. I'll try the 08s this time then.

Speaking of pad fade, will slotted rotors fix this issue? But don't they wear out the pads faster?