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View Poll Results: Auto only, what's your pick? M3 or C63? | |||
M3 | 88 | 66.17% | |
C63 | 45 | 33.83% | |
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-24-2008, 12:54 PM | #45 | ||
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I guessing you haven't driven a DCT car. There isn't as much involvement as manual tranny but you can definitely tell by driving it, that it's not an automatic. As you can feel the clutch engage and disengage, and you can drive the car more like a manual car than an automatic like your IS-F.
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09-24-2008, 01:25 PM | #46 | |
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Um... hello? Shift lights on the Tach! DUH! [/sarcasm] But in all seriousness. The ability to change how it shifts alone (via the different modes) is a step beyond a normal automatic. It adds another lever to the interface, in being able to depict how fast it will shift and where the shift points in the fully automated modes are in the rev range. The answer to all of this is that if you are just a dumb buyer with money spilling out your pockets. And you want a car you can sit in, start, put into D and drive. Then it will suffice as an automatic for your purposes. But if you want more, it delivers there as well. Where a typical automatic doesn't. This alone is the distinction. And following this line of thought I wouldn't say it is out of line if even the C63's performance automatic, as well as the IS-F's transmission went by new names as well. Because they are performance automatics, not slushboxes. I understand why they chose not to create a new name in their marketing campaign. They want to attract poeple that can't or don't wish to make the distinction between the two. They are marketing their cars with the phrase automatic because it is familiar to their typical clientel. This is Lexus' only high performance car in their model line-up right now, and while MB has a few with their AMG and BRABUS badges I think it's safe to say that the majority of their sales are in the pure luxury category. BMW as a brand has always been more of a sports car than either the 2 aforementioned brands. And to take my last argument a step further in incorporating Audi/VW into the mix. Audi is the middle child between MB and BMW on the luxury/sport scale. And their performance transmission has donned a shiny new name as well, DSG.
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09-24-2008, 02:32 PM | #47 | |
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I still don't see how you paddle shifting in your MDCT is more "like a manual" than me paddle shifting in my ISF, besides the obvious mechanical reasons you guys have made clear. From a driver's standpoint though, you haven't conviced me one bit by saying you can feel the clutch engage/disengage. Lex |
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09-24-2008, 02:37 PM | #48 | |
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09-24-2008, 07:57 PM | #49 | |
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No. Furthermore, you seem to be in a dead heat with a Slurpee in terms of logic. You're in effect saying that every single automatic built since the dawn of time is - not an automatic? Well done. Bruce |
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09-24-2008, 08:20 PM | #50 | |
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The DCT feels like a manual when driving it, perhaps not as much as the old SMG, but to me if feels like a manual with a missing clutch pedal. I haven't driven the IS-F so I can't compare it to that. The best way I can sum it up is like this. I've seen a few Jeeps out on the highways with bumper stickers that say "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" well I'll put a spin on that and say, "It's a DCT thing, you wouldn't understand". I don't know how to explain it any better than I and others have in previous posts. You just have to drive it.
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09-24-2008, 08:40 PM | #51 | |
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Let's keep to the subject matter please. There's no reason for this kind of stuff.
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09-24-2008, 11:04 PM | #52 | |
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Thanks for your input |
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09-25-2008, 08:29 AM | #53 |
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I've driven the IS-F. It definately doesn't feel like a DCT. Its pretty much a straight up automatic. Although, it does shift very hard. I was cruising around town and when I hit the paddle shifter it was SLAMMING the gears in. It was alittle abrupt and out of place for the times when my pace was slower. At speed it was more appropriete though.
In all fairness, it could of been user error. I only drove the car in the manual mode and didn't leave it in D that much.
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09-25-2008, 12:42 PM | #54 | ||
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I can see why Bruce would consider the DSG's or DCT's automatic. The fact that the clutch is engaged automatically and not manually by the driver, makes it somewhat an automatic. As far as i know, the SMG's and DCT's can be put on complete auto, again making it somewhat automatic like.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-c...ansmission.htm Quote:
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09-25-2008, 01:31 PM | #55 |
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Do you guys call all soda coke? I know some poeple that do, even when they are drinking Pepsi.
I mean, technically they are the same. You drink both, they look the same, and taste similar. Both come in bottles... so the different ingredients can't matter that much, right?
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09-25-2008, 02:49 PM | #56 | |
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I knew when you were finally cornered, in how flawed your arguement is, that you would start lashing out with insults. Predictable and laughable. Your whole premise is, that if you have the option to put your SMG/DCT into an auto mode, therefore that makes it an automatic. So I used YOUR logic, that if you have an automatic(Tiptroronic/Steptronic) that gives you a MANUAL mode option that allows you to determine when the transmission will make it's gearshift via paddle shifters, that it therefore could be referred to as a manual. The main difference between SMG/DCT and automatic transmissions is the primary function it was designed for. 1. The SMG is trickle down technology used in F1 racing. The purpose of automating the clutch action is to increase the speed in which gearshifts are made. The SMG II in my E46 was the exact same transmission found in the 6MT with the addition of hydraulics/electronics to automate the engaging/disengaing of the clutch. It is first and foremost a manual(with the auto option). 2. Steptronic-type automatics are the total opposite. They start out as automatics and additional hardware/software is added to allow the driver some control over the gear shifting, but it's primary purpose is to function as an automatic. Your arguement is just like saying chocolate ice cream and strawberry ice cream are both ice cream therefore chocolate is the same as strawberry. Faulty logic. Manual and Automatic transmissions have definately taken a step towards each other but it doesn't make SMG=Steptronic. Just take my original advice, go buy an AUTOMATIC Fit!
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09-25-2008, 11:41 PM | #57 | |
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My whole premise is that, as with every other automatic since the dawn of time, M-DCT has two pedals instead of three, will take you from zero to flat out with no driver interaction while it changes gears on its own, and you can shift it if you want to. As I've mentioned several times in these threads, you can call the M-DCT whatever you like to preserve your sensibilities, manhood or whatever, but don't play M-DCT cop. For me (and of course others), it's an automatic - a potentially terrific one to be sure, but still an automatic. Always a pleasure. I'm here all week. Bruce Edit: PS - Oh, and by the way, chocolate and strawberry are both ice cream. The taste will be different while consuming them, but that doesn't change the fact that they're both ice cream. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the M-DCT is an overall better experience for the driver (at least when it's working correctly) compared to a more traditional auto, but it's still an auto. |
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09-25-2008, 11:43 PM | #58 | |
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09-26-2008, 08:38 AM | #59 | |
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09-26-2008, 08:51 AM | #60 | |
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09-26-2008, 08:57 AM | #61 | |
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answer: DCT No one is saying that the paddle shifting is a manual transmission interface. But the way the throttle responds to the gear shifts DOES feel like a manual. You can notice that the car would even roll back on a hill when starting from naught if the anti-rollback feature wasn't there. Honestly, the steptronic paddle-shifting automatics kind of ruined the game for the Dual clutch trannies because they blurred the line too much. Without them in the picture, the difference between an Automatic and a DCT/DSG is very easily discernable. Auto does it all for you, you don't even think about rpm or gears. DCT/DSG would allow you to specifically select the gear you needed and gives you control over the rpm.
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09-26-2008, 09:19 AM | #62 | |
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09-26-2008, 09:28 AM | #63 | |
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10-18-2008, 02:51 PM | #64 |
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10-28-2008, 03:28 PM | #66 |
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Damn, I thought this thread had died.
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