Help with (customized) wide/wheel setup

[lutfy]

Folks,

I had been running 18X10 Enkei NT03 m with 275/35/18s with RA1/RR for almost 2 years now. Nothing wrong with this with the exception rear tires get fairly overwhelmed and I want more rubber at the back.

I want to run 18x10 et 25 up front as its tried and tested to work with 275s. For the rears, I know Apex makes 18*11 but et25 now allowing to take advantage of a 305 sized tire.

What would be the ideal rear offset? I am considering Forgestar F14. Any experience with folks on the track? Based on the link below, 32mm rear ET would be great with 11inch width but that car was stock. I am lowered on Eibach springs (and Bilstein shocks). Otherwise stock car with stock fender liner etc.

I recall Richbot stating one can run 285 or even 295 front with the right offset. I just want to make sure I select, get the right offset for my setup.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...orgestar+18x11

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Lutfy

[surlynkid]

I had 295/30-19 and they rubbed like crazy when I lowered my car. It all depends how low your car is.

[GabeS]

Are you supercharged?
are you saying you are spinning tires with your current setup?

have you tried better tires? quality of tires(and I am not saying pick the most expensive...there are grippy cheap tires) wins over size....
but if you want super wide for style then that's fine too..

anything 285 decent quality tires should hold fine up into the 600hp range unless your redlining it all the time..

[FTS]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Are you supercharged?
are you saying you are spinning tires with your current setup?

have you tried better tires? quality of tires(and I am not saying pick the most expensive...there are grippy cheap tires) wins over size....
but if you want super wide for style then that's fine too..

anything 285 decent quality tires should hold fine up into the 600hp range unless your redlining it all the time..

Do you think 295 or 305s would prove to be too grippy? Also, which tires would you suggest?

TIA.

[GabeS]

Can never be too grippy unless you are drifting haha...
I think it's just overkill unless your doing it for looks wise... Some people like massive meaty tires....
I think 285 for stock power.. or 295 max.. should do just fine...If it's just for handling.

There are a million good tires.. I support the cheaper brands..
Achilles tires in atr sport 2 are super cheap and are really good.
You can get 257/30/19s for $70 bucks at onlinetires.com
federal and hankook, you can find for $200ish. In larger sizes..
hankook/federal/.. All have ultra hi performance options..
I am totally against paying $400 for name brand tires unless you are competing for milliseconds at some national level event.

[bigjae1976]

I've considered the 18x10.5 et 27 which should work with a 285. I run a 275 on the OE 18s (9.5 et23) and a 12mm spacer.

I think your biggest variable will be the tire. Some are wider than others by more than a 1/4" which will be the difference between rub or no rub.

I don't see the point of going to a 295 or 305. The wheel will likely be too narrow to take advantage of the wider rubber.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I had 295/30-19 and they rubbed like crazy when I lowered my car. It all depends how low your car is.

Surlynkid, whose springs were you running when lowering the car? Which brand of tires? 18*10 with 295 MPS at the back, I have seen that being done without issues. You think 25mm offset could be the culprit?

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I've considered the 18x10.5 et 27 which should work with a 285. I run a 275 on the OE 18s (9.5 et23) and a 12mm spacer.

I think your biggest variable will be the tire. Some are wider than others by more than a 1/4" which will be the difference between rub or no rub.

I don't see the point of going to a 295 or 305. The wheel will likely be too narrow to take advantage of the wider rubber.

Bigjae,

I sent Dan an email too as this has been done:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...orgestar+18x11

I spoke with Alex at Sonic Motorsports (forum sponsor) and apparently 18*11 with et32mm should be the ticket. 18*10.5 27mm is a great size. My goal would be to run 305/35/18 Nitto NT01 (same size width etc as the RA1 which Dan-Merkedm3 ran) in the back hence 11 inch at the back to take full advantage of the tires. Fronts will be 18*10 275/35/18 so net net front to back diameter will be identical to stock with more meat at the back.

I can use more stability at the back as it is a tail happy car. Ever since I added more camber up front and the bigger front bar, rear seems to be the issue. Sure you can modulate but I want as much traction as I can get at the back (evident at high speed sweepers and also coming out of slower corners).

The rear 275s are getting overwhelmed after a few laps. I have tried RA1s and even gripper RRs. Drove a student’s staggered setup on mine (to try it out) and was amazed how planted the car felt. Car is plenty fast with 1:22s at Summit, 2:10 flat at VIR. Its just fighting the tail (ever so subtly even)..

Cheers,

Lutfy

[FTS]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Can never be țoo grippy unless you are drifting haha...
I think it's just overkill unless your doing it for looks wise... Some people like massive meaty tires....
I think 285 for stock power.. or 295 max.. should do just fine...If it's just for handling.

There are a million good tires.. I support the cheaper brands..
Achilles tires in atr sport 2 are super cheap and are really good.
You can get 257/30/19s for $70 bucks at onlinetires.com
federal and hankook, you can find for $200ish. In larger sizes..
hankook/federal/.. All have ultra hi performance options..
I am totally against paying $400 for name brand tires unless you are competing for milliseconds at some national level event.

Yep, wider the better I think as long as it fits and chassis can handle it. Btw, those are not r-comp tires, they won't last on the track.

[CIFUM3]

Haven't tracked mine yet and I'm on stop suspension but I'm running forgestars 19x11+33 with a 305/35 and zero rubbing I've had four people in the car and still nothing in hoping to hit the track a few times this year and hope I don't have to downgrade to a 295

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Surlynkid, whose springs were you running when lowering the car? Which brand of tires? 18*10 with 295 MPS at the back, I have seen that being done without issues. You think 25mm offset could be the culprit?

Bigjae,

I sent Dan an email too as this has been done:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...orgestar+18x11" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.m3post.co...star+18x11</a>

I spoke with Alex at Sonic Motorsports (forum sponsor) and apparently 18*11 with et32mm should be the ticket. 18*10.5 27mm is a great size. My goal would be to run 305/35/18 Nitto NT01 (same size width etc as the RA1 which Dan-Merkedm3 ran) in the back hence 11 inch at the back to take full advantage of the tires. Fronts will be 18*10 275/35/18 so net net front to back diameter will be identical to stock with more meat at the back.

I can use more stability at the back as it is a tail happy car. Ever since I added more camber up front and the bigger front bar, rear seems to be the issue. Sure you can modulate but I want as much traction as I can get at the back (evident at high speed sweepers and also coming out of slower corners).

The rear 275s are getting overwhelmed after a few laps. I have tried RA1s and even gripper RRs. Drove a student&amp;amp;#8217;s staggered setup on mine (to try it out) and was amazed how planted the car felt. Car is plenty fast with 1:22s at Summit, 2:10 flat at VIR. Its just fighting the tail (ever so subtly even)..

Cheers,

Lutfy

I've just never seen anyone stuff a wider 305 in the rear. NT01s are usually pretty wide and the shoulder blocks are pretty squared. I do know that some have done 305 street tires.

Not saying it can't be done but it will be pretty damned right...would be awesome though!

Agreed that a 275 square setup is an economical setup (as economical as tracking can get). I think a wider rear tire would work great on this chassis especially if you're on OE dampers.

[Maypo]

I have also found 32mm to be the ideal offset for shoe-horning max rubber in the rear of my car, which has been lowered 1.5 inches.

This past year I autocrossed with 315/30x18 Hoosier A6 on 11.5", 32mm offset wheels and, although there was 5mm, or so, of clearance inside and outside, both shoulders rubbed when at 'competition' speed. The outside was mainly affected by vertical travel (the fender line curves inward), and the inner was shear lateral loading. So, for reference, I think a car which has been lowered 1.5 inches and uses 2×stock spring rates could do a 305 tire/11" wheel combo, which would be about 16mm narrower than my current setup -- again, with 32mm offset. And keep an eye on the OD: a 19 tire would be problematic.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Maypo

I have also found 32mm to be the ideal offset for shoe-horning max rubber in the rear of my car, which has been lowered 1.5 inches.

This past year I autocrossed with 315/30x18 Hoosier A6 on 11.5", 32mm offset wheels and, although there was 5mm, or so, of clearance inside and outside, both shoulders rubbed when at 'competition' speed. The outside was mainly affected by vertical travel (the fender line curves inward), and the inner was shear lateral loading. So, for reference, I think a car which has been lowered 1.5 inches and uses 2×stock spring rates could do a 305 tire/11" wheel combo, which would be about 16mm narrower than my current setup -- again, with 32mm offset. And keep an eye on the OD: a 19 tire would be problematic.

This is great feedback. Thank you Maypo. My car is lowered say ½ inch +/- with Eibach but Bilstein’s raise the car a bit. Long and short, very comparable to the ZCP in height but spring rates are not double and only 20% stiffer (if that).

Originally Posted by CIFUM3

Haven't tracked mine yet and I'm on stop suspension but I'm running forgestars 19x11+33 with a 305/35 and zero rubbing I've had four people in the car and still nothing in hoping to hit the track a few times this year and hope I don't have to downgrade to a 295

Thanks CifuM3. So I guess with 18 inch wheels vs your 19 and slight lowering, it gives me a bit of comfort factor.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I've just never seen anyone stuff a wider 305 in the rear. NT01s are usually pretty wide and the shoulder blocks are pretty squared. I do know that some have done 305 street tires.

Not saying it can't be done but it will be pretty damned right...would be awesome though!

Agreed that a 275 square setup is an economical setup (as economical as tracking can get). I think a wider rear tire would work great on this chassis especially if you're on OE dampers.

Bigjae, am very excited about this setup especially since I know bigger rear benefits the car (my case and my style of driving). Yeah those NT01s are wide indeed. RA1s which the MerkedM3 ran are identical to NT01 in size and I am mimicking his setup. I got Richbot's blessings as well

Its marginal cost here in terms of yes I wont be able to rotate and may have to change rear tires prematurely if I burn up the fronts (can flip tires on wheels though and alternate sides). But fact I go to the track say 3-4 weekends a year with this car (3-4 weekends will be with the 911S), I really want to maximize my fun factor with this car. Yes the squares work but I want more grip. Even though the grip be marginal, its one of those things which had been planted in my head and I want to do it. Very very excited. Placing order this evening. Thanks all who responded. I will be back with more pics once I get the wheels (custom so will take up to 4 weeks).

Cheers,

Lutfy

[SYT_Shadow]

I was going over this same stuff with APEX

They have an EC7 wheel in 18x11 which should fit a 305, but does the 305 fit under the rear bumper?

I'd love to have a 275/305 EC7 NT01 setup... would love it even more if the wheel were an ARC8 though

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I was going over this same stuff with APEX

They have an EC7 wheel in 18x11 which should fit a 305, but does the 305 fit under the rear bumper?

I'd love to have a 275/305 EC7 NT01 setup... would love it even more if the wheel were an ARC8 though

Apex wheels are ET25 for 11 inches. Hence will 'likely' rub on the fender from what I have been told. Correct offset is 30mm for this wide of a wheel.

Cheers!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Apex wheels are ET25 for 11 inches. Hence will 'likely' rub on the fender from what I have been told. Correct offset is 30mm for this wide of a wheel.

Cheers!

That's what I'm seeing in this thread

Unfortunately the wheels linked above have zero chance of clearing the Z54 pfc front caliper

The 275/305 NT01 would be such an awesome combo!

[JustAnothaM4]

is it possible to run 18x10.5 +27 w/ 285/35 all around on an e9x?

[AP3X_FTW]

OP, 305 NT01's are overkill for the rear on stock suspension. More tire is not always the solution.

Originally Posted by FTS

Yep, wider the better I think as long as it fits and chassis can handle it. Btw, those are not r-comp tires, they won't last on the track.

Wider does not always equal better. Futhermore, you do not need an r-compound to go to the track. Actually, you can be extremely quick on extreme summer tires. Choosing a tire is all dependent on experience level. Extreme summer tires like Hankook RS-3 and Dunlop Star Specs are a great choice. They will last longer than r-compunds, typically cost less, can be driven to and from the track, and are much more predictable at the limit. You want to stay on extreme summer tires as long as possible. Once your times start to hit a plateau, then it is suggested to move to an r-compound.

Originally Posted by project e46m3

is it possible to run 18x10.5 +27 w/ 285/35 all around on an e9x?

The 18x10.5 et27 can certainly work as a square setup for those looking for more sidewall support. 275/35/18 NT01's will work, as well as 285/30/18 Hankook TD's etc. You will need to dial in quite a bit of negative camber up front (I believe -3.2 or more), and you will likely need small spacers up front to avoid rubbing the strut (this depends on what suspension you are on).

BTW, I saw on M3F you sold your e46. Did you pick up an E9X?

[FTS]

Originally Posted by AP3X_FTW

OP, 305 NT01's are overkill for the rear on stock suspension. More tire is not always the solution.

Wider does not always equal better. Futhermore, you do not need an r-compound to go to the track. Actually, you can be extremely quick on extreme summer tires. Choosing a tire is all dependent on experience level.

thanks for the input, but please inform me as too why wider isn't better.

Also, the reasons I use r-comps primarily is because street tires are not able to handle the heat for 30-40 min. sessions, and their softer side walls don't work well with camber-challenged cars on the track, there are however r-comps that work even with -1 to -2 deg camber..

[SYT_Shadow]

FTS, why are you camber challenged? With front plates you can get all the camber you want!

As far as the rear is concerned, stock arms are usually good for -2 which is all you want

[FTS]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

FTS, why are you camber challenged? With front plates you can get all the camber you want!

As far as the rear is concerned, stock arms are usually good for -2 which is all you want

I hope I have/can get -2 with stock config, there aren't camber plates available for my car just yet (adaptive shocks). I have -1.8 in my previous car and worked great with the R888 tires, with the F8x I think I will need closer to -2, but I am guessing.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FTS

I hope I have/can get -2 with stock config, there aren't camber plates available for my car just yet (adaptive shocks). I have -1.8 in my previous car and worked great with the R888 tires, with the F8x I think I will need closer to -2, but I am guessing.

I'm sure Ground Control will have plates before spring, they must be working on them as we speak!

[FTS]

Hope so