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      07-15-2007, 11:49 AM   #133
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From everything that I've read and heard about the new M3 and RS4, the RS4 is at least 3-400 lbs heavier than the M3. Cut the crap!.
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      07-15-2007, 02:02 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
M3 fans - read this:

The biggest letdown - and it's a huge one - is the steering. Whereas other 3-series (and all previous M3s) read the road surface to your fingertips, the M3 is frustratingly numb on center. It transmits only the largest of messages, and effort is too light and doesn't build naturally. The ratio is wonderfully quick but, to add insult to injury, the M3's turning radius feels vastly larger than any other 3-series.

If you wanna feel really bad, you can follow the link to read the full article.


I NEVER found such a review about the RS4, although it's out for more than 2 years now. Looks like the new M3 lost it ... completely. The New King: Audi RS4. Actually not new, 2 years old, sorry.
I am a M3 fan and I am reading. Nice to see an Audi fan here. It looks like you enjoy stirring the pot on the M3 forum. Love the RS 4 myself, but as an FWY, August's Car and Driver, for what it is worth, reported in reference to track times at VIR with the BMW 335 vs The RS 4 the following:

"The BMW was almost one second quicker around VIR, despite dramatically lower peak speeds on the straights. The RS 4 simply overloads its tires too quickly when the steering wheel is turned. If it weren't for the the four-wheel-drive system ensuring that the power can be applied early at corner exit, the RS 4 would have been farther behind the competition in the LL3 class."

I would personally take an RS 4 over the 335 for all around performance. However, I would presume the e90M3 would have significantly faster times around Virginia International Speedway than even the 335 given its higher horsepower, higher red line, and most importantly it's LSD.
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      07-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
Yeap, good excuses. Still, the fact that the RS4 is better than the M3 for the last 2 years is not because Audi is late to the show, but is because BMW is so slow refreshing it's line I actually find it weird. 7 Years for a car? If I take a loan for a car is max 5 years (yes u can get 7, but that's not likely), people are changing cars every 3-4 years usually (if they can afford doing so, of course), so waiting 7 years for a new car is embarrassing. Everybody knew the RS4 will show up on that date, so why BMW didn't come up with something faster? Smart or stupid, the RS4 won every single competition out there for the last 2 years straight. That means the M3 wasn't such a big king lately. And now with the new model, even if the car will be faster than the RS4, is an embarrassment how little faster it is. In every single review you can find out there, nobody says it will beat the crap out of anybody. Everybody feels bad about the new model, some even saying the old one was better in many ways. So if that is all BMW can jump up with I am glad I am an Audi fan. One way or another, the BMW lost it's status, "the king" is no more. You guys can say whatever, but there is a new C 63 AMG that will smoke your M3 easily (rwd-no quattro loss, but with 30 hp more). So if not losing to the RS4 completely, just wait for a comparison with the (probably new king) C-Class.

Anyway, so many bad review out there, you gotta trust some. You can be a fan and close your eyes, but I keep reading them, I just don't feel the new M3 is meeting the expectations. Great car, but not enough, not for an M3, not for current competition.


All those words and you are saying NOTHING.
Tha last AMG C, (which was a V8) had 30+ more HP then the E46 m3 as well.

Fact is all you Audi fans signed onto a BMW board for what ?
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      07-15-2007, 04:28 PM   #136
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Hey Brucey some of us just love cars - we can love lots of different marques - just because we like an Audi, doesn't mean we can't like a BMW. Why would you not realise that?
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      07-15-2007, 04:36 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
M3 fans - read this:

The biggest letdown - and it's a huge one - is the steering. Whereas other 3-series (and all previous M3s) read the road surface to your fingertips, the M3 is frustratingly numb on center. It transmits only the largest of messages, and effort is too light and doesn't build naturally. The ratio is wonderfully quick but, to add insult to injury, the M3's turning radius feels vastly larger than any other 3-series.

If you wanna feel really bad, you can follow the link to read the full article.


I NEVER found such a review about the RS4, although it's out for more than 2 years now. Looks like the new M3 lost it ... completely. The New King: Audi RS4. Actually not new, 2 years old, sorry.
RS4 is the queen. i remember seeing tiff nedell driving the RS4 vs M3 CS and was disgusted with the control of the RS4. admit it dude, the
RS4 will never be better then a M or AMG.
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      07-15-2007, 04:42 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
Just read your own post, the one with the POLL. Why are people concerned about negative reviews? Because they feel something is true after all?

I read the whole thread, I voted on "never interested in buying", they I got to see the results. Why are there 11% taking back their deposit? Why are other 13% considering the m3 before,. but not anymore?

That is about 25% of YOUR own fans walking away, because of the reviews, because they are not that impressed anymore. Plus others that are only considering ... they still have time to change their mind

So what, your are telling me everybody saying the M3 steering sucks doesn't matter?
do u even own a rs4?
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      07-15-2007, 04:48 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
You're absolutely correct <makes note to himself not to race a car on a track with race tires...that'd be dumb wouldn't it?!>.



However, this only serves to demonstrate my point that by far the biggest variable responsible for the difference between the times/speeds these cars achieve against each other will be the driver.

Both cars are unquestionably fast.

What will the premium be on a E92 M3 CSL? More than the premium on a MTM supercharged B7 RS4?

How about a comparison between those two?

Valid or not?

Discuss!


not valid. if u wanna talk about tuner cars then lets talk supercharged E46 CSL from sweden vs the supercharged RS4.
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      07-15-2007, 04:51 PM   #140
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Well, if my driving talent exceeds the new M3's abilities and my nerve exceeds its speed, power and handling then its a bag of shit. Mind you, I can scare myself shitless on a pair of roller skates so I reckon Ill be happy with the M3. ;-).

Im obviously not as good a driver with the nerve to push a 414bhp 4.0V8 capable of 0-60 in 4.4 seconds as hard as the guys worried about the new M3 and as Im not interested in playing Top Trumps, it shouldnt be a problem.
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      07-15-2007, 05:02 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Well, if my driving talent exceeds the new M3's abilities and my nerve exceeds its speed, power and handling then its a bag of shit. Mind you, I can scare myself shitless on a pair of roller skates so I reckon Ill be happy with the M3. ;-).

Im obviously not as good a driver with the nerve to push a 414bhp 4.0V8 capable of 0-60 in 4.4 seconds as hard as the guys worried about the new M3 and as Im not interested in playing Top Trumps, it shouldnt be a problem.
I think you have a valid point, but you are missing the bigger picture. People like owning cars that are more capable than themselves (which is 90% of the time). It's the knowing that you have a king of the road that sells cars.
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      07-15-2007, 10:54 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
I have big problems understanding that article, where the RS4 loses against the 335i, for the next reasons:
1.the RS4 was faster around corners
2.the RS4 was WAY MUCH faster on straights.
I got those straight from the article, go ahead and read it if u don't believe me.
So if it's faster on corners, also much faster on straight line, then how can the RS4 lose a second? Maybe because they had 3 drivers,maybe they got the worse (out of 3) to the RS4? I don't know, but it's surely interesting.

What's next is what RUFF said on another thread around here, I think the one with the new C63. Again, it's not me, it's somebody else, but I found his comment matching exactly with what I had in my mind:

"Right? Based on one simplistic magazine review; then following your logic, another magazine rated the G37 higher than the 335. Thus, your position is the G37 is better than the 335 and heads above the RS4."

the article never said it was faster in the corners. it overloaded or UNDERSTEERED! which is a trademark of audi.
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      07-15-2007, 10:57 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
I have big problems understanding that article, where the RS4 loses against the 335i, for the next reasons:
1.the RS4 was faster around corners
2.the RS4 was WAY MUCH faster on straights.
So if it's faster on corners, also much faster on straight line, then how can the RS4 lose a second?
Look at the article/posted SS by EM 5 again. The RS4 was not faster around the corners/sectors as you pointed out multiple times. It was faster on the straights, as it should be with the substantial power increase.

Look at the entry speed then the exit speed of each corner/sector. That will tell you all you need to know. I'm not sure how you could read that the RS4 was faster around corners/sectors.

The most telling being Sector 5, where the RS4 entered at 75.7mph and exited at 93.3mph.
The 335i entered at 70.6 mph, a full 5.1mph slower, and exited at 93.2mph, vitrually identical to the RS4 exit speed of 93.3mph.
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      07-15-2007, 10:57 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
I have big problems understanding that article, where the RS4 loses against the 335i, for the next reasons:
1.the RS4 was faster around corners
2.the RS4 was WAY MUCH faster on straights.
I got those straight from the article, go ahead and read it if u don't believe me.
So if it's faster on corners, also much faster on straight line, then how can the RS4 lose a second? Maybe because they had 3 drivers,maybe they got the worse (out of 3) to the RS4? I don't know, but it's surely interesting.

What's next is what RUFF said on another thread around here, I think the one with the new C63. Again, it's not me, it's somebody else, but I found his comment matching exactly with what I had in my mind:

"Right? Based on one simplistic magazine review; then following your logic, another magazine rated the G37 higher than the 335. Thus, your position is the G37 is better than the 335 and heads above the RS4."
now use that same logic when you compare the better performing e92 M3 to the rs4 and go back to your audi forum.

kthx
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      07-15-2007, 11:54 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
I have big problems understanding that article, where the RS4 loses against the 335i, for the next reasons:
1.the RS4 was faster around corners
2.the RS4 was WAY MUCH faster on straights.
I got those straight from the article, go ahead and read it if u don't believe me.
So if it's faster on corners, also much faster on straight line, then how can the RS4 lose a second? Maybe because they had 3 drivers,maybe they got the worse (out of 3) to the RS4? I don't know, but it's surely interesting.

What's next is what RUFF said on another thread around here, I think the one with the new C63. Again, it's not me, it's somebody else, but I found his comment matching exactly with what I had in my mind:

"Right? Based on one simplistic magazine review; then following your logic, another magazine rated the G37 higher than the 335. Thus, your position is the G37 is better than the 335 and heads above the RS4."
Uh, get your facts straight. Maybe you did read the article... and you make the perfect example of a person WHO READS WANT THEY WANT TO READ. The RS4 was actually considered an understeering pig of a car. Same engine, the R8 was a much better handling car, even with the life-sucking, power-robbing Quattro.

The 335i also bested the the M Coupe that was lighter and more HP. Balance and neutral handling was quoted as the determining factor. Even if it was the driver variable, the fact that the Audi has a 100+ HP advantage and being Audi's flagship A4 and still being neck-and-neck with a 335 shows that Audi has a ways to go.

The day Audi becomes a real contender, Quattro will be an OPTION on their flagship cars, RWD being the standard. The E92 M3 will crush the RS4. Expect 1/4 mile times in the mid 12's, superior braking due to it's lighter weight and better distribution of it, and better handling than the nose-heavy porker. Yes, the Audi will always be more user-friendly and comfy... and that seems to be what this article is saying.... which is only 1/3 of the picture.

Yes, the M5 is a porker car as well, but at least it has a reason to be: bigger and more HP without the powertrain, HP leeching losses of Quattro.

Magazine's that quote MFG stated times without saying it is MFG times have no credibility. If they went on Caddy's numbers for the CTS-V, they would have a rocket ship. Too bad, even the Factory Drivers from GM couldn't duplicate their estimated 0-60 time of 4.5 and fell flat on their faces.
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      07-15-2007, 11:58 PM   #146
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And to all those that state that AUDI is more exclusive because there are much less of them around... well... there's a reason for that... use your deductive reasoning!
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      07-16-2007, 06:36 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM_5 View Post
And to all those that state that AUDI is more exclusive because there are much less of them around... well... there's a reason for that... use your deductive reasoning!
Hmm, much more Audis in my country than bimmers
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      07-16-2007, 08:06 AM   #148
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I am amazed by the level of participation and interest AUDI owners have in this forum since the magazine posted their review. Never seen it before ever here.

Damn we loved our AUDI and Bimmers
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      07-16-2007, 08:14 AM   #149
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The RS4 definelty understeers massively in some types of corners. What save it are the very wide track and monster tires.
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      07-16-2007, 09:32 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Well, if my driving talent exceeds the new M3's abilities and my nerve exceeds its speed, power and handling then its a bag of shit. Mind you, I can scare myself shitless on a pair of roller skates so I reckon Ill be happy with the M3. ;-).


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      07-16-2007, 09:46 AM   #151
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[quote=moss;1179161]Hey Brucey some of us just love cars - we can love lots of different marques - just because we like an Audi, doesn't mean we can't like a BMW. Why would you not realise that?[/QUOTE]



Because you have nothing good to say about any other brand except an Audi.
After all "CAR LOVER" this is a BMW forum.
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      07-16-2007, 09:54 AM   #152
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[quote=BruceWain;1180990]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
Hey Brucey some of us just love cars - we can love lots of different marques - just because we like an Audi, doesn't mean we can't like a BMW. Why would you not realise that?[/QUOTE]



Because you have nothing good to say about any other brand except an Audi.
After all "CAR LOVER" this is a BMW forum.
Yes these new Audi members are hilarious. Its like a psychology case study. Very entertaining.

I for one welcome our new basement-dwelling Audi members!
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      07-16-2007, 11:09 AM   #153
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Why don't YOU just add the numbers up yourself.
None the less the fact remains that the RS4 cost almost twice as much and has about 100hp more then the 335. What do you think the NEW M3 will do ?

And that's why you all are here.
as if it will change anything............
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      07-16-2007, 11:14 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audi4ever View Post
Hmm, much more Audis in my country than bimmers
Yeah well, this is not the case in the USA.......... a much larger market.
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