Ess 625 low boost issue

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Installsplus

Other m's with the same kit putting down 530 at the wheels. The only difference is he was running a x pipe on 94 octane

Any kind of cat delete makes a big difference.

[Installsplus]

Originally Posted by Patrón

Any kind of car delete makes a big difference.

Yes I noticed that. Searching for an x pipe.

[craio11]

It actually doesn't seem to have affected any thing. I haven't had much time to work with since I changed the bladder. But did a few pulls with not much change. It was clearly bad and had a hole in it. I also have replaced the oring that seals on the bottom because if i would cycle the vale sometimes you could see light coming through.

I am still thinking its the valve causing my issue something is up with it. possibly the spring is weak and cant seal the valve. Another new belt is ordered and going to get either a new or send this one.

[Bucki14]

Originally Posted by Installsplus

Other m's with the same kit putting down 530 at the wheels. The only difference is he was running a x pipe on 94 octane

It may just be that that dyno reads in the range (lower than you'd like). Unless you have raced other 625 kits and felt significantly slower or your trapping less than expected I wouldn't worry about it. Dyno numbers ultimately are meaningless when comparing to others in vary different climates and conditions (too many factors).

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by craio11

It actually doesn't seem to have affected any thing. I haven't had much time to work with since I changed the bladder. But did a few pulls with not much change. It was clearly bad and had a hole in it. I also have replaced the oring that seals on the bottom because if i would cycle the vale sometimes you could see light coming through.

I am still thinking its the valve causing my issue something is up with it. possibly the spring is weak and cant seal the valve. Another new belt is ordered and going to get either a new or send this one.

darn it , i was hoping you fixed your problem. i'm hoping it's the spring at the bypass valve. I wonder how much psi a smoke test can push. is there performance shops in your area that may specialize in domestics?

[craio11]

I just ordered a new valve, to just rule the whole thing out. Vortech changed the design of the valves compared to the one I have. The head is bolted on instead of a snap ring not sure what else is different. This car is driving me crazy with this.

There is not really anything close to me for real performance shops. Im giving it to the end of the week then im punting and going to take it somewhere

[Installsplus]

Originally Posted by Bucki14

It may just be that that dyno reads in the range (lower than you'd like). Unless you have raced other 625 kits and felt significantly slower or your trapping less than expected I wouldn't worry about it. Dyno numbers ultimately are meaningless when comparing to others in vary different climates and conditions (too many factors).

So true. I will give it some time. I think octane played a big part. From now on it will only be 94 so we will see what it does on the same dyno.

[craio11]

Yeah if your making the right amount of boost the dyno is just a tool to tell you if something is up. In my case I'm down about 100+ hp.

So I had some time to work with it tonight. My vaccume is now 14-15 from 11-12 not sure if this means anything fairly small change. There is also a right and wrong way to install the bladder. Unless spring can't hold back the manifold pressure under driving conditions the valve isn't leaking.

My random boost numbers are making me think my problem is belt slip even though the belt and tensioner are new. If i mash it in 2nd I can get 6.7 occasionally. The boost being all mechanical if it can make it once it should be able to do it all the time. If it was a boost leak it would be static and not fluctuate. The fact I can still only do 5.5 in 3rd and 4th leads me to belive the diverter leaking was a red harring.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by craio11

The boost being all mechanical if it can make it once it should be able to do it all the time. If it was a boost leak it would be static and not fluctuate. The fact I can still only do 5.5 in 3rd and 4th leads me to belive the diverter leaking was a red harring.

even though the boost is mechanical, the tune, timing and intake temps can all affect boost (if i'm not mistaken).

did you pull the manifold off to see if anything below looked out of the ordinary? there are two sensors plugged in on the front of the manifold, see if both of those are secured. the only thing i can think of is bad or old plugs. i'd pull them just to see if they are ok, ask the owner how old they are. most of the FI companies are recommending 10K intervals. good luck.
p.s.
when you are starting the pulls to test boost, what AIT are you getting? if it's over 100, the tune could be pulling timing. just for the heck of it, fill your box with ice, get some cold readings for AIT and then start your boost tests.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Patrón

even though the boost is mechanical, the tune, timing and intake temps can all affect boost (if i'm not mistaken).

did you pull the manifold off to see if anything below looked out of the ordinary? there are two sensors plugged in on the front of the manifold, see if both of those are secured. the only thing i can think of is bad or old plugs. i'd pull them just to see if they are ok, ask the owner how old they are. most of the FI companies are recommending 10K intervals. good luck.
p.s.
when you are starting the pulls to test boost, what AIT are you getting? if it's over 100, the tune could be pulling timing. just for the heck of it, fill your box with ice, get some cold readings for AIT and then start your boost tests.

On a belt driven setup the boost will still be the same despite timing. If it was a turbo setup that would be possible but this is a sc with a belt. it will still make the said amount of boost at a given rpm the diffecence would be if the power is there with it which would point toward timing
and fuel. If the car sense knock, it will pull timing and dump fuel. if the car sense lean condition it will dump fuel, and last if IATs are high the car will do the same as knock. but those are the only areas that effect power if the boost is there.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

On a belt driven setup the boost will still be the same despite timing. If it was a turbo setup that would be possible but this is a sc with a belt. it will still make the said amount of boost at a given rpm the diffecence would be if the power is there with it which would point toward timing
and fuel. If the car sense knock, it will pull timing and dump fuel. if the car sense lean condition it will dump fuel, and last if IATs are high the car will do the same as knock. but those are the only areas that effect power if the boost is there.

how does my boost vary (p3 recall) in 3rd gear pulls from 6 to 8.3? the variable being AIT and ambient weather. I am catless with only resonators and rear cans.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Patrón

how does my boost vary (p3 recall) in 3rd gear pulls from 6 to 8.3? the variable being AIT and ambient weather. I am catless with only resonators and rear cans.

Colder temps equal more dense air, inturn that returns a higher PSI for boost in the manifold. Remember you car records the boot hitting the mainfold. Nothing your computer does can controll that out side of it closing the throttle for limp mode.

[craio11]

Well i think i may of ended up finding my solution want to get some advice before I go at this. Another new belt with a new diverter valve and still saw no change. Side note the new design of the max flow valves are a much nicer unit.

I believe the manifold is leaking/lifted. Every single one of the clamps barely had any pressure on them. From what I under stand the runners have to be completely down into the boots which all of mine are not. So that the middle groove is grabbed by the coupler. I was only able to find a picture of a vf kit that the manifold had lifted on. I imagine the concept would be the same. Ill get a picture of what mine look like.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by craio11

Well i think i may of ended up finding my solution want to get some advice before I go at this. Another new belt with a new diverter valve and still saw no change. Side note the new design of the max flow valves are a much nicer unit.

I believe the manifold is leaking/lifted. Every single one of the clamps barely had any pressure on them. From what I under stand the runners have to be completely down into the boots which all of mine are not. So that the middle groove is grabbed by the coupler. I was only able to find a picture of a vf kit that the manifold had lifted on. I imagine the concept would be the same. Ill get a picture of what mine look like.

when you remove, reinstall the manifold put a little bit of wd40 on the velocity stacks and the inside of the rubber boots. i wouldn't spray them just coat them with your finger. they should seat in there pretty well. at least that is good news.

[craio11]

Wondering if this is an issue I having trouble getting the boots to grab the manifold. Looks like a few of the inner grooves are smashed or distorted. Any one have any input on this?

Update: Think im on to something here
I tested tightening all the boots on the manifold and only one would stay relatively in place. They all either are pulling down and the groves will not sit in the grooves of the manifold or they are distorting. Some one previously had removed all the boots from the manifold as there is multiple size hose clamps on bottom where there should be one time use clamps from bmw. So it appears that the previous install either used the wrong size clamps (width) and when they tightened them it caused this issue. So thankfully these are only about 5$ a piece from bmw

[Properstyle]

did you lubercate the top of the clams? this is a big issue with install. I know I use a finger tips worth of oil on mine to get them to seat.

[craio11]

I did around all of the boots when i was trying to reinstall the manifold, but i believe the damage was already done from the original install which was not done by me. This just adds to the mystery of this whole project. They would of have to cut the bmw "one time use" clamps which I imagine would be a huge pita. I also found the vaccume line ess wants you to T into under the manifold dam near rub through due to poor install.

[azndrunk74]

i'm currently N/A but i had a boot look like that because my manifold wasn't seated properly causing a leak. i only caught it when i dyno'd my car and it was down quite a bit on power compared to other cars (esp. in the upper RPM range). i would buy a new boot because that one more than likely won't seat and seal properly anymore. my car felt insanely better after fixing the leak.

[craio11]

Well that helps me feel better that I may be on to something as that is exactly what my situation is so keeping my fingers crossed.

For what they cost i ordered a set of boots and the proper clamps from bmw less then $80 from the dealer. After getting them home last night and comparing them they are clearly stiffer/harder then my current ones. They also "snap" on the manifold. Also for any one in the future proper clamp size is key if you replace the clamps use the bmw clamps.

So here is the results I feel like i could possibly tighten them more but i tightened them all equally or at least to the best of my ability. The first picture kind of shows one boot im worried about still as it doesn't look even all the way across

[Iyzmi]

How did you remove the one time use clamps and how do you install the new clamps?

[azndrunk74]

how does the car feel after new boots and clamping everything down? my ess kit is still in a box so i couldn't tell you how the velocity stacks are supposed to seat into the boots yet. 50whp+ should be a significant difference in the high rpm range to be felt.

[craio11]

Problem appears to have been resolved. making 7.0-7.1 psi. The pull in the upper rpm range only way I can explain is it feels like a new car. You can defiantly tell and feel the difference. Hopefully i can get back to the dyno before it snows.

Also this has fixed and idle issue I never really noticed. The car use to to idle fairly low 450 ish and hunt a bit. Now its around 600-650 and does not hunt it also better vacuum at idle. I think I am going to throw a new set of plugs into the car as well. I found a few post where there was great improvement from a plug change and i have no idea how old these are.

Iyzmi: The clamps appear to have been removed by the previous installer. As to why I could not even begin to guess. Only thing I can think of is they had a similar issue not getting the boots to seat and wrecked the boots when they tried to tightened them down. Then bought new boots and did the same thing . If you are changing yours my advice would be to remember these are basically like a carb boot on a motorcycle. if you over tighten them they will distort and leak. Some moderation goes a long way here.

As for the clamps they replaced the one time use with hose clamps of varying sizes as well...... I am not a fan of how it is but there is not much I can do about it as I do not personally have the tool to put the crimp clamps on