AMS Magazine: Another Comparison, Another Victory - M3 ZCP vs. RS5, C63, B3

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

Edmunds Inside Line I think, but I meant here on the forum. If people are going to crucify the RS5 for not being faster than the M3, then we should do the same to the M3 for being slower than the CTS-V.

People are crucifying the RS5 for losing every single magazine challenge against the M3, not merely because its not faster. These comparison reviews cover more than speed after all. And, the CTS-V (all be it in sedan form) has beaten the M3 in some tests in the past, AFAIK. Plus, the CTS-V had somewhat low expectations, it was the underdog after all. Certain forum members (you'll see them post in these results threads) hyped the RS5's capabilies heavily prior to its release. No one really comes in here boasting of the CTS-V's credentials, so we don't pay it so much attention. Though, yes, the Lutz Challenge did get quite a bit of coverage here.

Where's the accolades for that car?

Probably on the CTS-V forums. I'll bet if you go over there you won't find them celebrating the M3's victories either. Makes a great deal of sense, no?

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by MJC///M3

Have to respectfully disagree with you on that comment bro.

Just seems the overall sentiment over the past few months....especially reading through many of the RS5 debates was that this car was INDEED meant to dethrone the M3. This coupled with the incessant barrage of Audi commercials directly targeting BMW, is a testament to that fact.

In any event, its fantastic to see the M3 reign supreme. I think the E92 will go down as one of the best M3's ever....especially considering how fantastic the competition is these days..(RS5, C63, etc).

The competition is most definitely a great thing. If not for the RS5 development the ZCP might not exist. I've just never seen a forum so wrapped up in whether or not another car is better. None of the Audi forums I'm on really cared about the RS5 bs M3 comparison at all. Isn't there something better to talk about? I guess all the "my car is better than your car" stuff just strikes me as juvenile.

I'd love my M no matter what beat it. It's an M.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

The competition is most definitely a great thing. If not for the RS5 development the ZCP might not exist. I've just never seen a forum so wrapped up in whether or not another car is better. None of the Audi forums I'm on really cared about the RS5 bs M3 comparison at all. Isn't there something better to talk about? I guess all the "my car is better than your car" stuff just strikes me as juvenile.

I'd love my M no matter what beat it. It's an M.

well said...I mean its not like any of us DIDN'T buy the car we wanted...nor are any of us sitting around waiting to sell the thing because of some magazine guy (except for this dude)
We all bought the car we wanted, and are hopefully happy with it. With the dollar value of the cars we're discussing, selling the car if we made the WRONG decision would happen pretty quickly.

(selling for real though...not just changing your signature like domobrown

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

People are crucifying the RS5 for losing every single magazine challenge against the M3, not merely because its not faster. These comparison reviews cover more than speed after all. And, the CTS-V (all be it in sedan form) has beaten the M3 in some tests in the past, AFAIK. Plus, the CTS-V had somewhat low expectations, it was the underdog after all. Certain forum members (you'll see them post in these results threads) hyped the RS5's capabilies heavily prior to its release. No one really comes in here boasting of the CTS-V's credentials, so we don't pay it so much attention. Though, yes, the Lutz Challenge did get quite a bit of coverage here.

I rather the attention be focused on the Boss 302, as Ford has called out the M3 by name.

As for the RS5, I'd take these comparisons with a grain of salt. The general consensus is that the M3 is still the driver's car whereas the RS5 is the GT of the group. Even in these comparison tests that it lost, the numbers are hardly embarrassing. It's interesting that people are so focused on how the cars drive at 8/10 to 10/10 knowing full well that most would never go beyond 6/10.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Probably on the CTS-V forums. I'll bet if you go over there you won't find them celebrating the M3's victories either. Makes a great deal of sense, no?

I don't expect celebrations, but you can have biases and still appreciate the accomplishments of other cars, even if you wouldn't buy one personally.

If we can't do that, then there's no sense in having a "M3 vs .. " section.

[graider]

bottom line, give me each one please and I will be happy to take it.

[ihyln]

so footie trolls us because the M3 is too hard to drive but the audi isnt? LOL ok, now I've seen everything.

[Poppin Fresh]

The first few replies in this thread focus on the topic. It then gets watered down by rants and babbles. I generally wait till certain posters chime in and then I stop reading there after.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

I rather the attention be focused on the Boss 302, as Ford has called out the M3 by name.

Funny you should mention that. There's is a thread on that car here already, and most everyone is praising the car. Again, no one came in here hyping up that car pre-release, only to return in such an apologist fashion.

I really think you are misrepresenting this forum by and large, and frankly you just lack perspective. For the most part, the tone here is not one of superiority. You'll see that some sure, but again mainly in these RS5 comparo threads, and for good reasons already stated.

As for the RS5, I'd take these comparisons with a grain of salt.

If you go to an Audi forum, they are not going to take winning comparisons with a grain of salt. And if you go to a Cadillac forum, similar results there will CTS-V victories. I'll bet there's plenty of celebration in Nissan forums too, yeah? Honda and Toyota pot shots in there too, right?

I don't expect celebrations, but you can have biases and still appreciate the accomplishments of other cars, even if you wouldn't buy one personally.

If we can't do that, then there's no sense in having a "M3 vs .. " section.

Keep in mind, a lot of these comparison threads started life in the general forum, where objectivity often times takes a back seat at first to kudos and some (mostly good natured) ribbing. Plus, if you read through the vs. forum there is plenty of respect for other makes.

I guess overall, I just don't see what the big issue is here. It's an M3 forum, and we all loves us some M3. No big deal.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

If you go to an Audi forum, they are not going to take winning comparisons with a grain of salt.

true...we relish and savor the wins . M3 is hard to beat.

I've got this video memorized because it has been played/posted so many times in the past 7 years on Audi forums

[u2b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYF0Zmtf8b8
[/u2b]


Of course the 2008 version...with E92/RS4/C63...didn't go so well

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by xxs65xx

really? because I read a month ago that BMW had topped Audi sales...but it has been a month since I read it....do you have any proof?

this is what I'm referring to...the numbers are getting pretty incredible. In this same first quarter of 2010, BMW's lead on Audi had shrunk to 1700 cars...from 30,000 cars per quarter only a few years ago. Both BMW and Audi are displacing Mercedes, with Audi's growth being the strongest by far of the 3


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/09/r...rst-time-in-q/

Originally Posted by proof

Report: Audi outsells Mercedes-Benz globally for first time in Q1 2010
For the first time ever, Audi has managed to outsell Mercedes-Benz in global sales for the first quarter of 2010. Some of the European press are treating it like the fourth horseman of the apocalypse, but before we break out our Mayan calendars and go all 2012 on you, here are the hard numbers: Audi sold 264,100 vehicles worldwide between January and March while Mercedes sold 248,500 units over the same time period. For what it's worth, BMW has yet to release its final first-quarter sales figures.

Audi has repeatedly signaled its desire and intent to become the world's leading luxury car brand by 2015, which would mean passing both of its German rivals, the aforementioned Mercedes-Benz and BMW, along with Japanese automaker Lexus. Plus, Audi offers a pretty compelling lineup of vehicles with which to do battle with those formidable competitors.

According to Autocar, the biggest single contributor to Audi's passing of Mercedes-Benz is the Chinese market, where Audi sells twice as many vehicles per year as Mercedes-Benz. In fact, one out of every five Audis built is sold in China. Considering how rapidly the Chinese market is expanding, Audi is certainly finding itself in an enviable position. Time will tell if it's able to maintain that growth in the face of constant pressure from its German and Japanese rivals.

[graider]

sales number doesn't lies though. a4/s4/a5/s5 are more appealing to look at than 328 or 335 and that is the primary reason why they gain market share. someone gonna call me crazy, but people on this board are probably enthusiast and that only account for about 5% of the total owners. look does matter to lot of people.

with that said, m3 looks the best on the mag shot IMO.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by graider

sales number doesn't lies though. a4/s4/a5/s5 are more appealing to look at than 328 or 335 and that is the primary reason why they gain market share. someone gonna call me crazy, but people on this board are probably enthusiast and that only account for about 5% of the total owners. look does matter to lot of people.

with that said, m3 looks the best on the mag shot IMO.

I love the way M3 and 335 cars look. Hard to say. They're all awesome. Audi is just 'cool' right now. Happens in cycles.

p.s. in the last 24 hrs in the GTA, I saw 2 different E46 M3s in your colour (Bile Yellow, as Jeremy Clarkson referred to it )

[graider]

Originally Posted by sakimano

I love the way M3 and 335 cars look. Hard to say. They're all awesome. Audi is just 'cool' right now. Happens in cycles.

p.s. in the last 24 hrs in the GTA, I saw 2 different E46 M3s in your colour (Bile Yellow, as Jeremy Clarkson referred to it )

haha, yeah torontonian seems to like bile yellow m3 alot. i see them everywhere.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I really think you are misrepresenting this forum by and large, and frankly you just lack perspective. For the most part, the tone here is not one of superiority. You'll see that some sure, but again mainly in these RS5 comparo threads, and for good reasons already stated.

Then we agree to disagree. It has nothing to do with perspective, as I can show enough examples of the elitist attitudes on here to make my point very clear.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Keep in mind, a lot of these comparison threads started life in the general forum, where objectivity often times takes a back seat at first to kudos and some (mostly good natured) ribbing. Plus, if you read through the vs. forum there is plenty of respect for other makes.

I guess overall, I just don't see what the big issue is here. It's an M3 forum, and we all loves us some M3. No big deal.

Ah, so you do agree that objectivity often is lost, and that air of superiority begins to permeate. There is respect for other makes, but they're in the minority by far.

I like the M3, as it is an excellent vehicle that I certainly wouldn't mind owning myself. However, there are many times where the bias becomes so obvious that it becomes difficult to hold a civilized discussion or leads to inaccurate or misleading information regarding its competitors.

[mkoesel]

LOL, really? Keeping you up at night, this stuff? Simmering for a week there?

Originally Posted by Bunkei

Ah, so you do agree that objectivity often is lost, and that air of superiority begins to permeate. There is respect for other makes, but they're in the minority by far.

I didn't say that. But you know what? I've reached the conclusion you are more interested in arguing about whether the forum can be objective than you are in setting the example by being an objective voice yourself.

This is easily the best M3 forum on the web. Take it or leave it.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

LOL, really? Keeping you up at night, this stuff? Simmering for a week there?

No actually, I didn't catch your reply until yesterday

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I didn't say that. But you know what? I've reached the conclusion you are more interested in arguing about whether the forum can be objective than you are in setting the example by being an objective voice yourself.

This is easily the best M3 forum on the web. Take it or leave it.

Really? show me where haven't been objective.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

Really?

Yes really.

show me where haven't been objective.

Every single judgement levied against the forum qualifies.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yes really.



Every single judgement levied against the forum qualifies.

I would continue, but I'm derailing this thread, and your response wasn't specific enough. I don't understand how questioning other people's objectivity means that I lack any.

Anyway, good day.

[Don Pauleone]

Originally Posted by kleinsbottle

I just don't understand here all bmw fans
I have 03 b6 A4 3.0 q and 09 R57 mini cooper S conv, and 10 E92 m3 AW...
I know M3 is best and enough but you know?
At bad weather like heavy rain and snowy, my dealer send SMS - don't drive M3!!!!!
Do You all guys here live in race track?and are you all racer? Can you draw all performance of M3 in every day and just public road not race track?How many man here can drive M3 intense without hesitation?
Do you have some experience of tail spin at crowd public road with bad condition with M3?
What is purpose of automobile?just for fun?just for speed?
The fundamental of purpose of automobile is transferring man and other things from one place to another with safty and quickly in all road condition.
How many times do you push M3 to limit speed in public road with confidence of not spinning in curved corner?
When snowy day, I couldnot even start M3 at parking lot but my audi?
A4 could get me my hospital..
Huge fan of here make me some sick though...
Again I know M3 is best in class but the ranking can be totally different in bad road condition..
Also I am so disappointed at Audi, - why they give up strong engine? and poorest A/S, poorest dealer in our country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

perhaps u should consider a honda civic because you clearly do not deserve nice cars like BMW or Audi. you dun understand what cars are like in the 21st century when they are not just about getting to places safely. you fuq up your car during a turn because you have no skills. last but not least...u suck, farmboy