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10-12-2013, 07:14 PM | #23 | |
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So please don't assume it is all down to bearing design. If there were no other contributing factors, BMW may honour and replace bearings under warranty or goodwill. Even if they get a slight sniff of skulduggery, then brace yourself for a hefty bill. I am just letting you know what has been told to me. Yes, I have BPM stage I tune and looking forward to TMS Test pipes and BPM Stage II in the near future. But top speed and rpm will all remain stock, and I religiously warm up my car, even to the extent, I wait for the instrument cluster to show the oil level before increasing the rpm over 4k. Just because it's a motorsport car and every component is made stronger than a series car doesn't mean it should be abused from the time you turn the key. There is a reason why the warm up sequence is built into instrument cluster. You can't plead ignorance. So for us outside NA, it is 10w-60, and no hiding behind bearing issues. I am sorry and that the fact of life. This is nothing against people like Kawasaki, regular guy (PG) and others who have gone to extreme lengths to point out the obvious issue - bearing and clear issues. Yes we do agree, but the point is, when BMW through it's official channel states there is nothing wrong, there is nothing one can do. This is the case at least outside NA.
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10-12-2013, 11:11 PM | #24 |
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And your point?
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10-12-2013, 11:40 PM | #25 |
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BMW-NA made an oil spec change and also has more cars than any other country. Might weigh heavier than countries with fewer cars/problems or different fuel specs, different oil change intervals, etc... Just because Australia or Belgium has not made a change should not offset the fact that NA has, or vice versa. Maybe more cars (in NA) = more problems = more proactive changes by bmw than other countries.
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10-12-2013, 11:47 PM | #26 | ||||||
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10-13-2013, 05:48 AM | #27 | |
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I do agree with you 100 per cent about BMW trying to walk out of honour the claim and blaming it on other things. But the thing is, we are exposing ourselves to such decision because of some of our actions. We have every right to see what BMW are claiming before accepting it. Hence the reason I go through the prescribed warm up process. If BMW does knock back my claim based on my tune, then I have to accept it. Whether the tune caused the respective issue or not is a different question.
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10-14-2013, 03:09 PM | #29 |
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Best thing to do my friend...
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10-14-2013, 10:07 PM | #30 |
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Here's my prediction for the future. Many people will remain unconvinced in spite of pretty solid evidence. In spite of being fully informed, a small percentage of these people will suffer engine failures or will tear down their engines to find their bearings totally destroyed. They will always look to an alternate explanation instead of the obvious -- just as we see now with the discussion about cold start abuse, etc.
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10-14-2013, 11:04 PM | #31 |
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Agreed. I'm still thinking that there may be another option to help with the bearing wear and that a treatment of Liqui Moly Ceratec could only help. Only time would tell if it made any real difference though but I don't see how it could hurt. My decision is to use German Castrol 0w-30 during the winter months here in CO and 10w-60 during the summer and add Ceratec every 3 oil changes.
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10-15-2013, 01:30 PM | #32 | |
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Also, you claim that people on the forum drive their cars harder and have a higher failure rate than other owners. But you have no proof of that. How do you know that the tens of thousands of owners who are not on this forum are not also experiencing engine failures that are quitely being fixed under warranty? Do you have access to BMW's statistics? |
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10-15-2013, 01:58 PM | #33 | |
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And you still haven't provided evidence that forum members are harder on their cars than other owners. Do you think everyone else who owns an M3 and is not on this forum drives like a grandma? I can make a counterclaim that non-members are less likely to be car enthusiasts so they are less likely to follow proper maintenance, break in, and warm up procedures. In fact I recently met a supercharged E92 M3 owner who was not a member of this forum. Nor have you provided any evidence that driving the car hard is worse on the engine than babying it. There are people who do not track or drive aggressively yet still had engine failures due to excessive bearing wear. The only evidence we have is that bearing clearances are much tighter than what is considered the norm in the industry, and that the TWS oil is a lot thicker, especially when cold, than what other similar engines require in their oil. So far no one has provided an alternate hypothesis to explain the excessive bearing wear on our engines. And BMW's change in recommended oil specs recently seems to further vindicate the hypothesis about bearing clearance being a problem. So far, those who doubt that the S65 has a bearing problem have offered nothing more than speculation, unsubstantiated personal opinions, and mere denials. |
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10-16-2013, 01:13 AM | #34 |
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It's an interesting discussion. To play devil's advocate (and nothing else), one could argue that forum members take better care of their cars because they are better informed about their maintenance, etc.
As proof of that, one local dealer in my area had three blown M3's in the shop at the same time three weeks ago. Very likely if these had been forum members, you would have heard about all of them. So did they all abuse their cars because they are less informed, or is there really a problem that is only now beginning to be discussed? Again, devil's advocate...and nothing more. |
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10-16-2013, 07:11 AM | #35 | |
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10-16-2013, 09:20 AM | #36 | |
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I used to drive mine slow and i stopped doing that. Its not scientific stuff but the car is noticably running more even and smooth at mid RPM range since I adopted this style of warming her up. Something is working...
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10-16-2013, 09:42 AM | #37 | |
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10-16-2013, 05:19 PM | #38 | |
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I think it's the boy-racer attitude from the time you turn the key that's detrimental to this particular engine. There is a reason why a warm up procedure is described. Not everyone is an enthusiast like you and me. We listen to what people have to say, read manuals, share knowledge and information, and take care of our cars. We love our cars and passionate about them. But for most, it is a car, that's there to be driven. Get them from A to B. They don't care about warm up process. I am not saying every single bearing failure is attributed to this. The other day I was at the dealer, and someone got in an ///3 and blasted away. I didn't know how long the car had been parked, and I assumed it was the dealer tech doing it, and I pointed it out to the service manager, and telling him about the bearing issue. He told me it was the owner who was picking up the car after a service. There you go. When you have show-offs like that, it's easy to see the problems. Probably he doesn't know anything better. Yes, people follow the break-in process but after that all is forgotten. Whilst there is merit to the argument for a thinner oil given the tight clearance, I am sure it's just not down to that. I've seen a couple of cars with over 100k km or close on this forum, and they had zero lead in the oil BL oil analysis. If it's true that higher mileage cars will see increase bearing issues, then there is something wrong with these cars. I am sure these cars are loved and well looked after by the respective owners hence a healthy oil report. I have seen people drive past me and look at me to say that I am an idiot when I first get on the roads in the morning. I don't care. It's my car and I will drive the way I want.
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10-16-2013, 05:30 PM | #40 |
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+1 -- Most of us forum members are OCD-Crazy when it comes to our rides. I can guarantee you that when I sell my 2013 in a couple of years, it will be one of the best (if not THE best)-maintained M3s available for sale in Florida (no offense to any of my other Florida M3Post brethren, I'm sure we're all similar).
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10-17-2013, 10:25 AM | #41 | |
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Any oil that has LL01 is approved for use in the s65, the faster that is grasped the less of these posts we will encounter. •BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
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10-17-2013, 11:31 AM | #42 | |
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BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines: 1) Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil, BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420 or 2) Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195 The first part tells you that only LL-01 oils may be used in the S65 engine, and the second part tells you that out of all the LL-01 oils, only the two enumerated oils are approved. |
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10-17-2013, 12:06 PM | #43 | |
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10-17-2013, 12:13 PM | #44 | |
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It could also be read as you could only use LL-01 oils approved for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines. At this time are ALL LL-01 synthetic oils approved for those engines? Another point is if its ok to use Castrol 0E 5W-30...isnt that for the diesel engines?? So confusing but if you are under warranty, i would stick with 10w-60 for sure.
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