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10-18-2012, 02:57 AM | #111 | |
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looks outdated. I think it's looks, body lines and appeal will stay pleasing to the eyes forever. But I understand it is really an individuals taste. Now a BS C63 on the other hand is really going off topic. |
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10-18-2012, 03:08 AM | #112 | |
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1. It's not really a CAN-Bus blocker, it's more of a 'filter'. I've logged the CAN bus in real time to see whats happening. There are a few different ways to get the FSC certificate store to authenticate and allow use of maps/voice/etc..
Not sure what you mean about not all functions working correctly.. If the emulator is in there and the certificates are valid, then it works. If any part of this equation is missing, there may be issues with missing features. Yes you do need to know the original VIN of the car it came from for map updates if the certificates are original, but you can pull that from the FSC 1B. No real other downsides other than extremely small power consumption. 2. I disagree that tuning the M3 is any different than tuning the 335. BMW didn't protect the M3 anymore than they protected the 335 as far as I am concerned. In fact, the 335 didn't pop up with a tuner protected file in 2009 like the M3 did. Your comment that it was more than simple check-summing does not make sense to me. If the checksum is correct and the routines run properly, the car will start. The 335 MSD80/81 ECU is no more "protected" than the MSS60 ECU. In fact, I would say that the M3's ECU incorporates even more protection technology than the 335 ECU, considering it has a BDM locked left side processor. When any car comes out, it's a matter of time before it's cracked. And sometimes it's from information that leaks from the factory. Cracking serious RSA keys is sometimes not an option as we're limited by time and computing power. And yes, you are right about development firmwares with different signature checking that are sometimes leaked and used for tuning. Take for instance, the N55 - a perfect example of this. There is only so much that a manufacturer can do until there is a point of diminished returns. You can secure the front door of your house so much that it's impossible for you yourself to enter. Same idea here. In terms of the 47.1 update, it is supposed that it fixes this theft issue. Does US 47.1 differ from UK 47.1? Not to my knowledge. So a potential "patch" that they have for the UK market should theoretically be applied in the other markets as well, unless they chose to specifically target UK spec cars with specific coding data versus an actual program area patch. This is not hard for me to find out, I just need to program a UK variant and compare it to the US coding data. Information about this is not something I would withhold to make money, this is hobby for me more than anything else. I don't want my car (or yours) vulnerable to thieves. The programmer who made the key hack device states on the site that it works on version 47 as well. It's conflicting information between BMW and the programmers to this key hack. Can I tell you with 100% certainty that BMW's update fixes this issue? No. And even if it did, it's a matter of time before it's possible again. I don't have any use for that key programmer and would rather buy a car than steal it, so it's not feasible for me to purchase that tool and test the vulnerabilities of our current setup. Now if everyone on M3 posts donates five bucks we would probably have enough cash to buy this tool and put it to the test, and I would be happy to do the testing to see what's vulnerable and what's not - any why. Obviously everything with in a company - particularly a huge vehicle manufacturer - is going to be assessed by future risk. They are going to do their best to mitigate risks white maximizing profit margins. It's a cost/benefit analysis and only BMW and these key hackers really know the extent of this problem. SeniorFunkyPants also makes a very valid point two post above. In fact, this is probably one of the most important aspects of this. Quote:
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10-18-2012, 06:58 AM | #113 |
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The other countermeasure would be to introduce death penalty for car theft.
Right now these crimes are barely punished so there is no reason to not steal a car.
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10-18-2012, 07:37 AM | #114 |
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Thats terrible Didn't BMW promised software fix for this? Is this fix ready for E92 ?
Here I have seen this about fix to prevent key cloning: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745973 |
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10-18-2012, 08:29 AM | #115 |
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I have a compustar Alarm when the car is broken in and the alarm is not deactivated even with a copied or original key they car wont start .. in cases like that worth the install..
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10-18-2012, 08:48 AM | #116 |
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This has to be the best response/idea I've seen yet. Note you didn't say "report them stolen", just send the "stolen" video to news stations.
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10-18-2012, 10:30 AM | #117 | |
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There is no legal obligation to supply an unprotected means to pair a key to a car via proprietary CAN-bus protocols, this would be ridiculous, even in the over-regulated EU. IMO, BMW has a long-standing tradition of using software mechanisms iff they fit their needs: they use cryptography (not 100% secure, granted) to protect their assets and they fight hardware deficiencies by masking them with software measures (remember the dreaded "turbo lag" problem when they just opened the wastegates in order to keep them from rattling instead of fixing the actuator arms? One of the longest threads ever here on Bimmerpost was about this. Also, they re-programmed the high end individual audio amplifier with less kick-bass to prevent badly installed bass speakers from vibrating). When it comes to protecting their customers' cars from theft, they probably are just less inventive... as I said: honi soit qui mal y pense. And still no word from BMW, apart from the UK.
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10-18-2012, 11:02 AM | #118 | |
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This is an unintended consequence of the EU regulations, but one that should have been forseen. Any updates on whether BMW is actually "doing the right thing" for all cars involved? Does anyone know if LHD cars can be affected? |
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10-18-2012, 11:06 AM | #119 | |
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Then, it's either turn it over to the "authorities", or we can arrange for any interested BMW customer to "meet" the thieves-and after we're done we can send the tape to the local media then all go have that beer. |
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10-18-2012, 11:43 AM | #120 |
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Dealership in Germany told me that they had no idea what I was referring to and that they had heard of no "fix" or problem requiring fixing in regards to key cloning/OBD vulnerability. I just pictured an ostrich stuffing its head in the dirt...
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10-18-2012, 02:01 PM | #122 |
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can i get this done at the dealer? should be under warranty right?
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10-18-2012, 02:50 PM | #124 | |
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10-18-2012, 04:50 PM | #127 |
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haha thanks. I figured if we can stage them and PROOF that this can happen, BMW can issue a fix for it. After all, it's nothing but a huge security flaw in its software.
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10-18-2012, 06:19 PM | #128 |
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Is it confirmed that this is a Europe only problem? Or is it possible that US spec cars can be stolen in this way too?
I was at the dealership today and asked a highly trusted SA about this and he seemed to have no idea what I was talking about. The reason I am asking is that we don't live in a great city so my mom's E60 might look very appealing to a tech savvy thug. |
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10-19-2012, 03:31 AM | #130 |
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Be a good sport.
For all those that want a manufacture to secure a supplied ECU, most of you also want more power via a modified ECU. As long as there is one there will always be the risk of the other. I have always known this to be a risk, thus the reason for a high end alarm to protect my investment, AND not expecting it from a manufacture is just a given. |
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10-19-2012, 11:16 PM | #131 |
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I talked to my BMW rep and he says so far there isn't any software update he knows about that would fix such a problem. Anyone have the bulletin number for this update?
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10-20-2012, 09:29 PM | #132 |
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I caught the guy while he was stealing my car.
I walked out of my condo in Miami to go to work at 3am Sat morning. As I approached my car, I noticed two guys in a car parked next to mine. As I walked up they drove off? I opened my car door and there was a big dude 6 02/ 235 lbs sitting there with my steering wheel in pieces, FTF? I was carrying my old 357 Magnum. I stepped back yanked out my gun and told him to get the F out of my car or I would shoot him dead. He had a very large craftsman screw driver in his hand. I told him if he got out with that in his hand I would blow his frigging head off his neck. He fell out into the ground. Just then Blue Lights every where? Cops were already watching and waiting for them to move the car so they could be charged with auto theft vs auto burg. Seems a neighbor had seen them and reported them for being in our parking lot. Cop asked me why I did not shoot the perp? I said stealing my car is not punishable by death. The next day when I saw the damage to my cars interior, I wished I had shot him. LOL
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