Performance Driving School

[OneHump]

Originally Posted by marc32

Were you on the "Blue team" driving car #1?

Only if you were Blue #3.

[OneHump]

Originally Posted by Brosef

glad you liked it. I thought it was more than worth the $$ when you consider about the wear on the cars. I never saw anyone do 80 mph on the skip pad though - probably more like 40 mph to be fair.

I think 40 on the skid pad was the most I did. I have to say that I was very timid on that turn. The 80 MPH I was talking about was what they called "The Man Turn". I'm quite sure I hit 80 coming out of that turn. There are several murdered cones on the "compromise turn" that can vouch for that.

I think the best part of the class was the great people we had. Everyone was very cool. I was expecting a bunch of hard-ass gearheads, but everyone was just there to have fun and it showed.

There arent too many videos of M School. I might post a few iPhone shots I have and may also put my in car videos on Vimeo when they come. I'll update this thread if that happens.

[aus]

Originally Posted by kloh

I've been thinking of joining BMWCCA. Where do they do their track events in Socal?

The only "local" track is AAA Speedway in the 909. They do the "Roval" track with half the oval and then the infield. It's a BLAST screeming down the main straight into "NASCAR" turn 1.

There's an event at Willow Springs in November. They just did a "autocross" on the Willow track recently. The last track Buttonwillow. These usually require at least a night's stay to do both days.

You can also do the NorCal events at Laguna Seca and Infineon, which is suppose to be a nice track.

The instructors come from ALL over and all they really get is a shared hotel room and some food. If they're lucky, they'll get a couple runs in over the weekend.


I think you guys get a helmet as part of the school, so you'd be set for any CCA events.

[aus]

Is there an instructor in each car at the M school?

[TommyBwell]

In the one day school there is one instructor for every 6 or 8 cars except for the skid pad where there was an instructor in each car. There is a walkie talkie in each car so they can talk to you but you cant talk back.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by aus

Is there an instructor in each car at the M school?

At the Advanced M-School it's lead follow with an instructor in front doing an amazing job of driving at speed while critiqing the car immediately behind him. There'll be three or four cars behind and each takes a turn or two behind the instructor. It's amazingly effective.

Dave

[aus]

Originally Posted by dcstep

At the Advanced M-School it's lead follow with an instructor in front doing an amazing job of driving at speed while critiqing the car immediately behind him. There'll be three or four cars behind and each takes a turn or two behind the instructor. It's amazingly effective.

Dave

Thanks.
That's what we had when it was out West too.

It's not NEARLY as effective as an instructor in your car. I was thinking about going to M-school since you get a free day in you bought last year, but it's not worth the trouble if its follow the leader.

The other thing I like about the CCA event's is you're broken up in classes depending on skill level. Then the classroom time is geared toward your level too.

[AlpWtE92]

Originally Posted by aus

Thanks.
That's what we had when it was out West too.

It's not NEARLY as effective as an instructor in your car. I was thinking about going to M-school since you get a free day in you bought last year, but it's not worth the trouble if its follow the leader.

The other thing I like about the CCA event's is you're broken up in classes depending on skill level. Then the classroom time is geared toward your level too.

I still think the M school would be worth it for a beginner given what I've read and heard.

Don't get me wrong, I've been to just one CCA event - a car control clinic - and I thought it was great. I learned a lot, most of the instructors were very good and helpful, and I had a great time, but still, there are limits to what I would want to do with my own car and limits on what kind of chances I would want to take in the process of trying to find the limits of the car. I think that's where the M school comes in. I can learn to drive hard and learn where the car's limits are without having to cause excessive wear on my own car or put it at risk. Once I get a bit more confident in my driving skills from the school, I think I'll be better prepared to take my own car out and continue learning at CCA events.

Obviously, the M school is not cheap - heck, I'm still trying to save up for it - but I think you get your money's worth considering the wear and tear that you put on the car over those two days. Hotel, food, and helmet are all part of the package too.

[aus]

Originally Posted by AlpWtE92

I still think the M school would be worth it for a beginner given what I've read and heard.

Don't get me wrong, I've been to just one CCA event - a car control clinic - and I thought it was great. I learned a lot, most of the instructors were very good and helpful, and I had a great time, but still, there are limits to what I would want to do with my own car and limits on what kind of chances I would want to take in the process of trying to find the limits of the car. I think that's where the M school comes in. I can learn to drive hard and learn where the car's limits are without having to cause excessive wear on my own car or put it at risk. Once I get a bit more confident in my driving skills from the school, I think I'll be better prepared to take my own car out and continue learning at CCA events.

Obviously, the M school is not cheap - heck, I'm still trying to save up for it - but I think you get your money's worth considering the wear and tear that you put on the car over those two days. Hotel, food, and helmet are all part of the package too.

I hear you. It's just for the price of a 2 day M school, I can do four 2 day events with the CCA. If you've done the CCC, then just hit the track. You'll be in a D group and you'll be fine. They'll be some grandpa's out there with soccor mom's in the D group, but you'll still learn a LOT.
I just don't think you do that much wear and tear on your own car when you're just starting out. A lot of my friends seem to be worried about that, but you're just not going that fast when you're starting out.

[dcstep]

Lead-follow is very effective for me. Part has to do with the quality of the BMW instructors, which are all top of the heap. Having an "instructor" in the car is of little benefit when you know as much or more than the instructor, which happens at HPDEs for experienced drivers. Seeing the line executed over and over from close range at high speed, combined with expert commentary about your own line is very useful.

At Skip Barber we had very little lead-follow in the formula cars. Finally, one of our instructors, Brian Till, jumped in a car and lead us each through a decreasing radius, high speed turn that required trailing throttle oversteer to get around fast. Seeing Brian do it once was an epiphany for me. (Of course, there's no "in car" instructor in formula cars, it's all by radio).

Having several instructors is useful also. On the entry to the uphill esses at VIR I was feeling uneasy, even after a half-day of lapping. When I followed Donny Isley, he made a point of showing us how he used the pavement from an infield road to get a slightly better angle at the first apex. That made all the difference in the world to me and built my confidence through that tricky section. Getting the perspective of another driver was key to me finally getting comfortable with that section of the track.

Dave

[kloh]

Originally Posted by aus

The only "local" track is AAA Speedway in the 909. There's an event at Willow Springs in November. They just did a "autocross" on the Willow track recently. The last track Buttonwillow. These usually require at least a night's stay to do both days.

Bummer that it's so far away from Orange County

Originally Posted by aus

You can also do the NorCal events at Laguna Seca and Infineon, which is suppose to be a nice track.

Still far away but I would LOVE to drive Laguna Seca!

[OneHump]

Guys, what we did to those cars more than made up for the discounted $2,800 the school costs. Trust me, you wouldn't want your cars out there driving like that.

Don't forget that the price includes 2 nights hotel and all meals, as well as some decent swag and a $400 helmet. I'm a serious hotel snob and was impressed with the accommodations.

The best part is that you don't buy it if you break it. One of my esteemed classmates sent an M5 into the air with all 4 wheels airborne and landed in a ditch. At least two people in this thread were there to witness that.

[AlpWtE92]

Originally Posted by aus

I hear you. It's just for the price of a 2 day M school, I can do four 2 day events with the CCA. If you've done the CCC, then just hit the track. You'll be in a D group and you'll be fine. They'll be some grandpa's out there with soccor mom's in the D group, but you'll still learn a LOT.
I just don't think you do that much wear and tear on your own car when you're just starting out. A lot of my friends seem to be worried about that, but you're just not going that fast when you're starting out.

No doubt, the CCA events are a great deal and I definitely plan to do a track event or autocross soon. I also understand that our cars are designed to be driven on a track and can take the wear and tear. Still, if for no other reason than to get some cool M school gear and have opportunity to take off in an M5 and land it in a ditch, I still think I will try to splurge for the M school one of these days

[aus]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Lead-follow is very effective for me. Part has to do with the quality of the BMW instructors, which are all top of the heap. Having an "instructor" in the car is of little benefit when you know as much or more than the instructor, which happens at HPDEs for experienced drivers. Seeing the line executed over and over from close range at high speed, combined with expert commentary about your own line is very useful.

At Skip Barber we had very little lead-follow in the formula cars. Finally, one of our instructors, Brian Till, jumped in a car and lead us each through a decreasing radius, high speed turn that required trailing throttle oversteer to get around fast. Seeing Brian do it once was an epiphany for me. (Of course, there's no "in car" instructor in formula cars, it's all by radio).

Having several instructors is useful also. On the entry to the uphill esses at VIR I was feeling uneasy, even after a half-day of lapping. When I followed Donny Isley, he made a point of showing us how he used the pavement from an infield road to get a slightly better angle at the first apex. That made all the difference in the world to me and built my confidence through that tricky section. Getting the perspective of another driver was key to me finally getting comfortable with that section of the track.

Dave

Dave, you're at another leve from most of us. I could see you getting a lot out of a follow the leader type thing, especially if you're the second car. But for guys who are starting out, it's a HUGE advantage to have the instructor telling you when to go to "FULL POWER" or "lift a little... back on the gas lightly" as you're tracking.

Originally Posted by kloh

Bummer that it's so far away from Orange County

Still far away but I would LOVE to drive Laguna Seca!

I'm going from the OC too. It'll be worth it.
And I would also love to go to Laguna Seca, but a few guys have said they like Infineon more.