Is the S5 a threat to the new M3?

[UltimateBMW]

If they gave the A4 models a completely new factory code, then how can it be called only a face-lift? Did the interior's of a few of those cars (B6, B7) remain the same, with the same power train? If that is so, why give it a new code?

When the e46 3-series got their face lift they were still classified as e46 models.

[footie]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

If they gave the A4 models a completely new factory code, then how can it be called only a face-lift? Did the interior's of a few of those cars (B6, B7) remain the same, with the same power train? If that is so, why give it a new code?

When the e46 3-series got their face lift they were still classified as e46 models.

The simple answer is to help dealers and customer alike know the value difference between the two when you are checking in books like Glasses Guide (UK secondhand buyers guide). As for the difference, the interior and engines on a whole stayed the same though I thing the A4 range received some parts from the S4 to improve their handling etc. The only real difference was it's front and rear which received a goatie grille at the front and different rear lights.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by footie

The simple answer is to help dealers and customer alike know the value difference between the two when you are checking in books like Glasses Guide (UK secondhand buyers guide). As for the difference, the interior and engines on a whole stayed the same though I thing the A4 range received some parts from the S4 to improve their handling etc. The only real difference was it's front and rear which received a goatie grille at the front and different rear lights.

Got a question for you footie. I was at the Audi Driving Experience today and I have noticed engine lag between the time I stomped on the pedal and when the car takes off. This is especially noticeable on the Q7 but I can feel it on the S4 as well. Just wonder what's your 2 cents on this.

[gbb357]

Footie,

You're probably thinking about the S-Line not being made by gmBH. I'm almost sure the S4, S5 and S8 are by gmBH.

[marwan]

Originally Posted by footie

I would like to see that as it does have a beautiful body (S5) don't you think.

wow, when did this forum turn into Audipost.com?

[devo]

Originally Posted by marwan

S5 got owned by a 335:

so no, the S5 doesn't stand a change against the M3....maybe the RS5 would have a better chance.

Owned?! WTF:

Well..one out of three isn't bad. In other words, agreed, the S5 doesn't stand a chance against the M3. The two other statements are hilarious and rather ignorant.

[footie]

Originally Posted by bobbo

Got a question for you footie. I was at the Audi Driving Experience today and I have noticed engine lag between the time I stomped on the pedal and when the car takes off. This is especially noticeable on the Q7 but I can feel it on the S4 as well. Just wonder what's your 2 cents on this.

I take it the Q7 was a diesel one and not the 3.6L or the 4.2 which are both N/A petrol engines. If so well it is understandable, the TDI engines like all diesels do has quite a bit of lag which is highlighted even more with being automatics.

The S4 suffering the same, now that is confusing as it's engine is all but the same as the S5 and being both N/A 4.2v8 I can't understand why you are feeling a delay between pressing the throttle and the car taking off, that's a really funny one that.

[footie]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Footie,

You're probably thinking about the S-Line not being made by gmBH. I'm almost sure the S4, S5 and S8 are by gmBH.

I think you have to the wrong way round, it's QuattroGmbH which actually supply the S-Line body parts but they do not have anything to do with the S models themselves.

[footie]

Originally Posted by marwan

wow, when did this forum turn into Audipost.com?

The last I looked it was still a BMW site but surely someone is allowed to like another brand, or was that part of the conditions of the site, I must check next time.

I am still a bit confused as to how 0.06s transpires to the 335i raped the S5. Try starting and stopping this on a stopwatch, I bet you can't.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by footie

I am still a bit confused as to how 0.06s transpires to the 335i raped the S5. Try starting and stopping this on a stopwatch, I bet you can't.

haha, well said. If that's rape, I wonder what real rape is - total annihilation and destruction?

[keanu1]

i also think that the 335 i raped the audi s5 and that's because bmw has a 3 liter engine and the s has 4.2, but the bmw still comes first!!! that's the diference!

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by keanu1

i also think that the 335 i raped the audi s5 and that's because bmw has a 3 liter engine and the s has 4.2, but the bmw still comes first!!! that's the diference!

You do realize the twin turbo make it almost equal to a V8 and the fact that it is also a lighter car with better handling dynamics. That's like saying the V10 500hp M6 is inferior than the V8 500hp ZO6 because it makes the same hp with 2 more cylinders.

[devo]

Originally Posted by keanu1

i also think that the 335 i raped the audi s5 and that's because bmw has a 3 liter engine and the s has 4.2, but the bmw still comes first!!! that's the diference!

Get a clue.

Forced induction (2wd) vs. a naturally aspirated engine (awd). Yeah, you're right the Bimmer comes in first with a smaller engine. Not!

Do you guys sell what you're smoking?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by gbb357

That's like saying the V10 500hp M6 is inferior than the V8 500hp Z06 because it makes the same hp with 2 more cylinders.

...and 2l more displacement.

Best regards, south

[footie]

Originally Posted by keanu1

i also think that the 335 i raped the audi s5 and that's because bmw has a 3 liter engine and the s has 4.2, but the bmw still comes first!!! that's the diference!

I think some people are a little ill informed as to how much power the 335i actually has. I know the official figure is 306hp but the true figure is closer to 360hp, dyno machines have confirmed this, so that basically puts it and the S5 on level pegging if not a little more don't you think.

Now not some many years ago there was another car with only 2.7 litres that to use this silly comment 'raped' the larger 3.2 litre M3. I think it's name was the Mk1 RS4, but who in their right mind would have classed it as just a 2.7 litre engined car. Just like the first RS4, the 335i is another Bi-turbo engined car, so if you believe in your own mind that it's an underdog to the S5's V8 then so be it, the rest of us will see it for what it really is, a full bloody alternative to a big V8 with all of the power and torque and more economy, oh yeah and minus that lovely noise.

But in any case where did this thread get so far off track as to turn in a battle of S5 vs 335i. If I remember right the title is Is the S5 a threat to the new M3?.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by footie

But in any case where did this thread get so far off track as to turn in a battle of S5 vs 335i. If I remember right the title is Is the S5 a threat to the new M3?.

The direction the thread was heading answers the OP's question quite good since we're discussing S5 vs. 335 here: No, the S5 isn't a threat to the new M3.

BTW: You're right that the 335i is said to be underrated, but it's not in the ballpark of 360hp, rather 320hp.


Best regards, south

[footie]

southlight,

I think you will find numerous reviews on the web that differ from your opinion.

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/b...etter-results/

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1068293

Here is two examples to get you started.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by footie

southlight,

I think you will find numerous reviews on the web that differ from your opinion.

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/b...etter-results/

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1068293

Here is two examples to get you started.

Why are you giving two examples linking to the same source if there are numerous reviews on the web? The drivetrain loss in the article you're quoting is wrong, 335's loss can be estimated at about 10%:
Based on that 275hp at the wheels result in a crank power of 305hp, 285hp result in a crank power of about 316hp. So yes - as I said - underrated, but not 360hp.

Can you share more of the numerous sources pointing out the 335i's 360hp?


Best regards, south

[footie]

Sorry, I didn't realise it was one in the same, I noticed they also tested the 330i and found it's transmission lose to be something like 20%, could there be a difference between the two?

I must say that 20% did seem a bit big and if true then what would the likes of the S5 not be losing?

Regardless of whether it's 320hp or 350hp, I reckon when you calculate the transmission loses of both the 335i and the S5 as well as their weight differences, even at 320hp you will agree that their power to weight at the wheels will possibly be in the favour of the 335i and not the S5, so for the S5 to be only 0.06s behind is not so much as a victory for the 335i as a lucky escape of embrassment against the true underdog.

P.S.

You do have to remember that as I am currently a S5 owner I will defend it's honour until the M3 is in my stable.

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by southlight

Why are you giving two examples linking to the same source if there are numerous reviews on the web? The drivetrain loss in the article you're quoting is wrong, 335's loss can be estimated at about 10%:
Based on that 275hp at the wheels result in a crank power of 305hp, 285hp result in a crank power of about 316hp. So yes - as I said - underrated, but not 360hp.

Can you share more of the numerous sources pointing out the 335i's 360hp?


Best regards, south

They base the 20% loss from the other dyno results on the 330i from this article. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1068293

Originally Posted by Nasioc

Here’s what we found:
The non-turbocharged 330i, rated by BMW at 255 hp and 220 lb-ft of torque, puts about 200 hp and 180 lb-ft to the rear wheels. That’s roughly a twenty-percent loss. Since they have similar drivelines, you’d expect the 335i to put down 235 hp and 250 lb-ft.
But it didn’t. It put down a whole lot more: 275 hp and 300 lb-ft. A few quick taps on our trusty calculator shows that this engine is likely putting out closer to 350 hp and 360 lb-ft of torque.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by footie

You do have to remember that as I am currently a S5 owner I will defend it's honour until the M3 is in my stable.

That's reasonable!

Best regards, south

[southlight]

Originally Posted by gbb357

They base the 20% loss from the other dyno results on the 330i from this article. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1068293

Don't find a link to the 330 dyno run!? Anyway I think a drivetrain loss of 20% is too high, RRI tested a 330 AT and the result was a loss of 13%.

Best regards, south