First magazine comparison between MT and DCT

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Then buy a car with the MDCT.

To recap the debate that I had with Swamp2 and others.....the 7th gear is wasted for fuel economy instead of spacing them out for power.

If I wanted fuel economy, I would get a 335d.....the M3 is about performance.

hell no. i'll be emo again. i'll just by a 4 cyl beater if gas tops $5... oh that's gonna be MT too

[gorun]

I thought initially that 7th will be solely for economy but it actually feels quite lively. You can do some of the overtaking in 7th, no probs.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

hell no. i'll be emo again. i'll just by a 4 cyl beater if gas tops $5... oh that's gonna be MT too

I am happy that you and Club 6MT enjoy stirring the soup pot.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

yes. i enjoy looking at m3 rear's

I much prefer this rear end

[jworms]

Originally Posted by swamp2

[*]BMW E92 M3: 12.5s @ 114.8 mph (R&T)

so does this mean we might see 1/4 mile ETs dip into the 11s with DKG?

[Paladin906]

This makes the wait worthwhile. Thanks for the info guys.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by jworms

so does this mean we might see 1/4 mile ETs dip into the 11s with DKG?

ROFL, not unless there is a turbo / nitrous button for the mDCT....

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by Supraman

My gramma drives a automatic

My gramma doesn't even drive an automatic.

J/k. Just 'rowing' the pot...

[SnowsM3]

When SMG came out in the United States we didn't get the same launch control as the rest of the world. The reason the E46 SMG cars were slower 0-60, or 1/4 mile was because they couldn't be launched as well as a MT. Do the current U.S. DCT cars have the same launch control as the European car tested in this post? I'm wondering if the U.S. DCT cars may actually be slightly slower if they have the same launch problems. Looks like they'll be faster once going but may have a disadvantage from a standing start. Anyone know?

[phoenixbmwlife]

BTW we don't even know if launch control was used.

In any case like I said earlier we need more reviews with different drivers and different courses to really understand the true advantage of MDCT.

These reviews will come soon.

JMO of course.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by T Bone

ROFL, not unless there is a turbo / nitrous button for the mDCT....

i don't understand how my comment was so outrageous? the M-DKG car is cutting a full second off from 0-200kph (~120mph) which isn't too far off from where the M3 would end its 1/4 mile run. i mean even if the M-DKG equipped car can run only 1/2 second quicker than its 6MT counter part we should see ETs nearing the 11s, right?

what makes this illogical?

[RealSanaii]

Originally Posted by jworms

i don't understand how my comment was so outrageous? the M-DKG car is cutting a full second off from 0-200kph (~120mph) which isn't too far off from where the M3 would end its 1/4 mile run. i mean even if the M-DKG equipped car can run only 1/2 second quicker than its 6MT counter part we should see ETs nearing the 11s, right?

what makes this illogical?

Maybe 12.2-12.3......maybe.... GT-R is doing 11.7

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by SnowsM3

When SMG came out in the United States we didn't get the same launch control as the rest of the world. The reason the E46 SMG cars were slower 0-60, or 1/4 mile was because they couldn't be launched as well as a MT. Do the current U.S. DCT cars have the same launch control as the European car tested in this post? I'm wondering if the U.S. DCT cars may actually be slightly slower if they have the same launch problems. Looks like they'll be faster once going but may have a disadvantage from a standing start. Anyone know?

Warranty and features of the cars for the US are determined by BMW USA not BMW AG.

BMW USA has an interesting history of being wrong and outright silly in certain areas. Here are some examples.

• 6MT on the E60 M5 / E63 M6 - BMWUSA marketing dug in their heels and demanded that BMW AG make a 6MT version of the M5 / M6. BMW AG complied. But the 6MT suffered big time from axle hop so BMWUSA Warranty team made the DSC system so intrusive the M5 / M6 lost its character. A silly notion that the 6MT was a good thing for the M5 / M6 and then a disconnect with their warranty team. And BTW, 6MT cars are sitting on dealer lots because they suck
• Even on the SMG3 cars - BMWUSA has a different SMG computer than the EU cars to disable the European launch control. Don't know why but it sucks for us.

So don't be surprised if we get sucky LC over here with the new M3. Don't blame BMW AG, blame BMWUSA (not BMW Canada either).

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by jworms

i don't understand how my comment was so outrageous? the M-DKG car is cutting a full second off from 0-200kph (~120mph) which isn't too far off from where the M3 would end its 1/4 mile run. i mean even if the M-DKG equipped car can run only 1/2 second quicker than its 6MT counter part we should see ETs nearing the 11s, right?

what makes this illogical?

I will have to agree with you as I think its possible. The fastest 1/4 mile time I have seen is 12.5 which was done with a manual. With the correct tires (Michelin PS Cup+), and conditions I think a stock MDCT could make a 11.9 in the 1/4 mile.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by jworms

i don't understand how my comment was so outrageous? the M-DKG car is cutting a full second off from 0-200kph (~120mph) which isn't too far off from where the M3 would end its 1/4 mile run. i mean even if the M-DKG equipped car can run only 1/2 second quicker than its 6MT counter part we should see ETs nearing the 11s, right?

what makes this illogical?

11s is another tier even beyond the M5 / M6. The GTR does it with traction and not power. If you want a RWD in the 11s, you will need bigger tires than what the M3 has to offer and about 550-600 hp.

[DonM3]

Your right. I think south said it was not mentioned in the magazine

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

BTW we don't even know if launch control was used.

[footie]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

I will have to agree with you as I think its possible. The fastest 1/4 mile time I have seen is 12.5 which was done with a manual. With the correct tires (Michelin PS Cup+), and conditions I think a stock MDCT could make a 11.9 in the 1/4 mile.

Not a dragstrip guy so apologize if what I say sound silly but surely trap speed doesn't always relate to actual time taken to cross the line. So though the M-DCT car will reach a higher speed in that 1/4mile, it actual time might only improve by say 0.2~3 at best.

Does this sound logical.

[rick berry]

Having drag raced for many years at tracks with manual cars, I am still amazed at how smooth and fast the DCT is. Very good matching of engine torque with the 7 gears. Part throttle with the powwer switch ON is especially suprising since your only talking about a 4 liter car. 8 days so far and DCT is rating an A.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by T Bone

11s is another tier even beyond the M5 / M6. The GTR does it with traction and not power. If you want a RWD in the 11s, you will need bigger tires than what the M3 has to offer and about 550-600 hp.

how are you arriving at that considering the facts presented in this thread? or was there somewhere in this thread that discounted this reviewers numbers achieved with both cars?

Originally Posted by footie

Not a dragstrip guy so apologize if what I say sound silly but surely trap speed doesn't always relate to actual time taken to cross the line. So though the M-DCT car will reach a higher speed in that 1/4mile, it actual time might only improve by say 0.2~3 at best.

Does this sound logical.

i'm not even looking at what the M3 might trap, i'm only looking at the ET (elapsed time) difference between the 6MT and M-DKG. from what i can tell in the first post, the M-DKG equipped car is a bit over a second faster than the 6MT car for 0-200km/h. unless, like i mentioned above, there is some reason to not acknowledge these results?

i was even being fairly conservative and not using the reported 1.1 second difference between the two. the M-DKG car would only need .6 of a second to get into the 11s, that's only around half of what the M-DKG car reportedly ran compared to the 6MT car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

You know thinking more about it 4.6 seconds for MDCT? The manual cannot shift as fast as the dual clutch even if done by the most skillful person.

4.2 seconds was the fastest done with a manual that we know of. How come they only got 4.6 with MDCT? Was launch control even used? Are the other factors that affect time that much working against the MDCT M3 in this case? And come to think about it. 0 - 60MPH in 4.8 seconds for the manual is not exactly a great run either. I guess I answered my own question. Nevermind...

I think we need more reviews on this.

Well said! +2

I'm still pro-traditional manual despite the technological advances.

[footie]

I agree with TB that more power would be required, to break the 12 seconds barrier would require something special and more than a trick gearbox.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Supraman

My gramma drives a automatic

Originally Posted by T Bone

I am happy that you and Club 6MT enjoy stirring the soup pot.

all out of love bro...

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I much prefer this rear end

okay. this we both can watch from the rear regardless what transmission we got