Lang Racing on the S54 Rod Bearing problems

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Z K

I guess you can mix 0w40 with 10w60 to get a bit more lubrication on start up and still get higher temp protection.. probably making something like a 5w50 or so.

I would not mix these two as it is 2 different base stocks. If you want to runt he 0-40 mix it with a thicker oil from the same manufacturer.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I am not aware of any places in SC off the top of my head, but I am sure it wouldn't be hard for you to find a shop willing to do the work for you!

Willing and qualified/able is another story. Don't want mine to be the first S65 they operate on. I'll find a good place when its time.

[lsmkr01]

It was 300 without connecting pipes. I just wanted it all done. Sounds like your just after a look and not function. Just paint it and be done. Good thing about ceramic coat from jet-hot is it looks brand new after years of hard use while cheap imitation or paint will flake off. Its not or everyone. If you can find a used Dinan for 1k thats a steal bc thats how much i paid for my Megan w/ coating. Take care.

[Top_Gear]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

So to summarize, there is a repair and there is no significant risk, but it will be necessary to spend up to $5000 to repair. Hopefully someone is successful in getting some undersized bearings made for this engine and then the repair will be much cheaper!

If you are interested in having your engine properly repaired I would be happy to speak to you and go through the process and give you contact info for someone who can help you with getting the work done properly and cost effectively!

OK this is much appreciated, you are saying there is an "engine shop" somewhere that for about $5000 will guarantee that you will not suffer engine failure from this bearing problem. I find that hard to believe but if you can point me to such a shop within 100 miles of Los Angeles I would be very interested in paying them a visit. But I definitely wouldn't want to be their first job.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

Willing and qualified/able is another story. Don't want mine to be the first S65 they operate on. I'll find a good place when its time.

No issue with it being the first, like I said there is nothing revolutionary in the bottom end of the S65! The machine work on the crank and the measuring will be the most critical. Any engine shop that has built high performance engines will be able to offer you this service since measuring and machining is the most critical part of building engines, regardless of the manufacturer!

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

There is no risk to opening the engine and having the crank machined and the proper clearances set, you don't need to do a full on build to correct the issue. Any engine shop worth their salt will have your crank machined and replace your bearings and that will be a one time shot and it will be repaired for good....... No more replacing bearings again. The cost of doing this work at a shop is going to be about $5,000 including parts, machine work, removal and reinstallation of the engine (it would less than half that if you are qualified to do it yourself) ....... But that is a one time job, no more bearing replacements and no worries about your engine throwing a rod out the side because you never caught your bearings in time to prevent a catastrophic failure.

...

So to summarize, there is a repair and there is no significant risk, but it will be necessary to spend up to $5000 to repair. Hopefully someone is successful in getting some undersized bearings made for this engine and then the repair will be much cheaper!

I think you underestimate the amount of incompetence that is out there these days. Finding a shop to mount and balance tires properly is hard enough (at least down here in S. Fla.) If the engine has to be pulled to do this work I'll bet that 9 out of 10 times the work won't be satisfactory (e.g., missing fasteners, not replacing torque to yield fasteners, etc.). So from a practical standpoint it is just not a viable option for many of us. The only possibility for getting this work done is if a particular shop ends up offering this service from start to finish, it is a reputable shop, and we ship our cars over for the work.

But with that in mind, what is the cost of having made bearings with greater clearance? If 5 people resize the cranks and spend $5k, that's $25K. Would it not be worthwhile finding out whether there are enough on this forum interested in getting custom made bearings made (a la "group buy")? It could potentially collectively save a lot of money and aggravation considering that many of us can replace the bearings in our garage but can't resize the crank.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

But with that in mind, what is the cost of having made bearings with greater clearance? If 5 people resize the cranks and spend $5k, that's $25K. Would it not be worthwhile finding out whether there are enough on this forum interested in getting custom made bearings made (a la "group buy")? It could potentially collectively save a lot of money and aggravation considering that many of us can replace the bearings in our garage but can't resize the crank.

We have been down this path. It's not going to happen. No one has put the hand up to say, "I will spend $XXXXX and recover it later."

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I think you underestimate the amount of incompetence that is out there these days. Finding a shop to mount and balance tires properly is hard enough (at least down here in S. Fla.) If the engine has to be pulled to do this work I'll bet that 9 out of 10 times the work won't be satisfactory (e.g., missing fasteners, not replacing torque to yield fasteners, etc.). So from a practical standpoint it is just not a viable option for many of us. The only possibility for getting this work done is if a particular shop ends up offering this service from start to finish, it is a reputable shop, and we ship our cars over for the work.

But with that in mind, what is the cost of having made bearings with greater clearance? If 5 people resize the cranks and spend $5k, that's $25K. Would it not be worthwhile finding out whether there are enough on this forum interested in getting custom made bearings made (a la "group buy")? It could potentially collectively save a lot of money and aggravation considering that many of us can replace the bearings in our garage but can't resize the crank.

Getting a shop to mount and balance tires is hardly the same a finding a shop to build an engine. Last time I checked mounting and balancing tires was hardly a skilled trade and the requirements to work at a tire shop are not too strict. Basically if you can't do some research via the Internet and or talk to some buddies and find a reputable engine shop the the incompetence is yours! 9 times out of 10 I could tell if a shop is good by speaking to the staff and by doing a tour of the facility. Reputations will generally precede a good shop!

As for having bearings made, it will cost bigger dollars than anyone here is willing to put out. Basically the bearings would cost almost the price of having the machine work done per set!

[Yellow Snow]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I am not intending to insult you nor do I have any reason to have anyone buy and or use 0W40. Another thing of note is that I am not one of the people who thinks that changing rod bearings is a good idea. With clearances that are so tight simply putting bearing shells in may result in an excessively tight rod bearing and the results of that can very well be catastrophic. Running one of these engines with the 10W60 is also literally like rolling the dice as well. The 0W40 is a recommendation for people who want to keep running their engines without going inside them. Although the 0W40 is not a solution, it will extend bearing life due to it's better flow characteristics before it is at operating temp.

Almost all of the pictures of the bearings in the many photos that have been posted on here showed at least one or more rods having bearings that were near complete failure...... The result of imminent bearing failure is usually either a damaged journal on the crank, or a rod through the side of the block which would render your engine nothing more than a pile of scrap metal. In either case it would force you to have to spend big $$$ on your engine. My idea of a proper repair is as such: If a person opens his engine and finds out that he indeed has excessive bearing wear the engine should be removed and the crank sent out for machining to set the clearances to the proper spec. This is not as costly of a repair as you may think since it would be a one time fix, proper clearances "WILL" remedy the problem and the bearings will not fail anymore....... I am so confident in this that I am willing to bet my mechanics licence on it. (yes I am licenced by the Canadian government to work as a mechanic and my licence is accepted world wide)

My reasoning for jumping on your reply is because what you posted is false! Thinner oil don't run hotter, that is entirely false, thicker oil runs hotter due to the higher friction that is involved in pumping the thicker oil. The other statement of fixing the bearing issue and creating another problem is also false. By adjusting the clearance on the mains and rods, it is impossible to cause issues elsewhere in the engine as long as the clearances are correct and the oil pressure in the engine is still at an acceptable level.

Speaking about e-insults, I take your comments as insults toward myself and the others who are trying to bring this issue to light. I am posting based on my experience and as a service to the other members, I have nothing to gain from my posts since I am not a vendor or and will not financially benefit from this issue in any way shape or form. I am having my engine pulled apart and fixed since I intend to keep my E90 M indefinitely. I could have easily just sat back and let everyone do their talking and kept my info and experience to my self but, I am an enthusiast at heart and I like to help fellow enthusiasts keep their cars running properly. So do what you will, say what you will and think what you think, I only post on here for the benefit of the community and I don't need my e-ego stroked by getting pats on the back.

Good luck with your M3 I hope it lasts you for many miles and gives you much happiness. If down the road you do have issues, feel free to contact me and I will gladly help you how ever I can with information and recommendations.




There is no risk to opening the engine and having the crank machined and the proper clearances set, you don't need to do a full on build to correct the issue. Any engine shop worth their salt will have your crank machined and replace your bearings and that will be a one time shot and it will be repaired for good....... No more replacing bearings again. The cost of doing this work at a shop is going to be about $5,000 including parts, machine work, removal and reinstallation of the engine (it would less than half that if you are qualified to do it yourself) ....... But that is a one time job, no more bearing replacements and no worries about your engine throwing a rod out the side because you never caught your bearings in time to prevent a catastrophic failure.

Although the S65 is a "high-tech" engine, the bottom end is no different than any other engine...... A crankshaft and rods all running on journal bearings. I do agree though, if you don't feel you are qualified to do the work yourself get a professional to do it.

In response to your comments about inspecting the bearings and the the money it costs, what will a new S65 cost you if you don't catch a potential bearing issue and your engine fails? About $15-20K in case you didn't know...... The problem with a new S65 is the fact that even the brand new engine will require the clearances to be adjusted or it too will have the same issues we are discussing!

So to summarize, there is a repair and there is no significant risk, but it will be necessary to spend up to $5000 to repair. Hopefully someone is successful in getting some undersized bearings made for this engine and then the repair will be much cheaper!

If you are interested in having your engine properly repaired I would be happy to speak to you and go through the process and give you contact info for someone who can help you with getting the work done properly and cost effectively!

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure that most owners on here will never have a bearing issue and if per chance they had a failed bearing, a complete used replacement engine is easy enough to source for $5k.

So please don't flame me, but here's a few points.

Would I trust a machine shop to lick .001" off all 8 journals and maintain the almost perfect oem surface finish? No I wouldn't. Yes it can be done, but it's fair to say 5 out of 10 shops would screw up an expensive crank.

Opening up the clearances will lose oil pressure and make the pump work harder. This in turn could starve other components.

Surface contact in the bearing would also be reduced. Not good on cold starts.

Being that most of the failures are on charged motors, does the crank pulley damage the bearing with it's unusual loading?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Yellow Snow

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure that most owners on here will never have a bearing issue and if per chance they had a failed bearing, a complete used replacement engine is easy enough to source for $5k.

So please don't flame me, but here's a few points.

Would I trust a machine shop to lick .001" off all 8 journals and maintain the almost perfect oem surface finish? No I wouldn't. Yes it can be done, but it's fair to say 5 out of 10 shops would screw up an expensive crank.

Opening up the clearances will lose oil pressure and make the pump work harder. This in turn could starve other components.

Surface contact in the bearing would also be reduced. Not good on cold starts.

Being that most of the failures are on charged motors, does the crank pulley damage the bearing with it's unusual loading?

Obviously you haven't paid much attention to what has been happening on here for the last little while. Basically all of the S65's and S85's that have had the pans removed and bearings inspected have all had excessive wear on the bearings........ Way too much wear for the mileage on the engines. And no most of the issues weren't on SC'ed engines, many of the engines with the bearing issues were bone stock.

There are many machine shops that can machine the crank to OEM finish or better...... I know of quite a few. Obviously you don't send the crank out to "Joe's Garage" and have it done but you do your homework and pick a shop that can do the work and guarantee it to a high standard. 0.001" for a good machine shop is not difficult....... Many shops have the ability to to machine journals to 0.00025" of accuracy because that is their business! If a machine shop can't accurately machine 0.001" off of a journal it would be hard to call them a machine shop in my eyes. Don't place too much weight on that perfect OEM finish, remember BMW has cursed owners of their last 3 M engines with bearing issues. That perfect OEM finish is useless since the clearances that the engine is built with puts that surface at risk due to the metal on metal contact that is causing the bearing wear. It is ok as long as the top layer is still intact, but once you get int the second and third layer and finally into the shell itself the journal can easily be damaged and the crank needs to be machined anyway, if you can even save it!

Oil pressure will not be an issue since the S65 has a variable displacement pump capable of flowing plenty of oil to handle the clearances we are interested in building the engines with. And no a pump don't work harder as pressure drops, a pump works as hard as the relief setting will allow it to. Regardless of the clearance in the engine the relief valve will set the load on the pump. as long as the S65 has a minimum of 4 bar (~58 psi) above 2000RPM that is all that is required.

Please explain how the minute decrease in surface contact is going to be detrimental on cold starts. The opposite should be true since the bearings are now going to get lubricated quicker since the cold oil will be better able to flow to the bearings due to the increased clearance and prevent any metal on metal contact quicker. Lubrication is king when it comes to journal bearings and unfortunately in the S65 with the clearances it is built with and the oil that BMW specs I fear a lot of the damage to the bearings occur due to the cold flow characteristics of the TWS 10W60....... Basically the bearings are experiencing oil starvation/cavitation until the oil reaches operating temperature.

This isn't some flavour of the month for us, this topic has been discussed at length and we are not a bunch of amateurs. I am a mechanic by trade and I work on large diesel engines for a living, Regular guy has been working on the S65 since it was released and he has been involved in many builds including stock displacement, strokers and LC SC'ed S65's and he has access to a cutting edge engine shop and machine shop. Kawasaki00 works for a NASCAR team that builds engines and he too has access to a cutting edge shop and tooling. We all agree that the clearances in the S65/S85 are the cause of the bearing failures in these engines and to be quite honest 0.001" is totally out to lunch for rod clearance on a 2" journal...... That is about half of what it should be!

Please add any comments and ask any questions you wish, but don't think for a second that there are some google mechanics on here fixing our engines with a keyboard because that is absolutely not the case! My engine is going to be built into a stroker with proper clearances sometime next spring/summer. I will post my build/pictures of my OEM bearings once the project is underway. I will also post oil pressure data once the engine is up and running.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Getting a shop to mount and balance tires is hardly the same a finding a shop to build an engine. Last time I checked mounting and balancing tires was hardly a skilled trade and the requirements to work at a tire shop are not too strict. Basically if you can't do some research via the Internet and or talk to some buddies and find a reputable engine shop the the incompetence is yours! 9 times out of 10 I could tell if a shop is good by speaking to the staff and by doing a tour of the facility. Reputations will generally precede a good shop!

As for having bearings made, it will cost bigger dollars than anyone here is willing to put out. Basically the bearings would cost almost the price of having the machine work done per set!

Maybe in Canada there are great shops on every corner but that's definitely not the case here. And even if you find a good engine builder, what are the chances that he has experience on the S65? I understand that the essential parts are the same but every engine has its own quirks and experience definitely counts for something. Then factor in any specialized BMW tools requried for the S65, such as timing tools as I understand, and you're narrowing down the universe of potential shops dramatically. (see http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=193). So even if you get around to finding a reputable shop with the necessary experience and tools, you're still contending with ripping the whole front end of the car apart to get the engine out. What are the chances that every fastener will be put back in place and torqued to spec? I am not saying that it is impossible to do the work properly, I am saying that it is more likely that things won't be put back together properly (even if you get the jornals sized and the engine properly reassembled).

You're a trained mechanic and know precisely what to look for when oursourcing work. Most of us do not have your background and our mechanical abilities are limited to maintaining our M's and doing whatever is within our skills at home. So it may be easy for you to identify a particular shop to do the work but for most of us, it's not.

To all of this add (1) the remote possibility that the bearings were specifically sized as they are for a particular reason and that opening up the clearance causes other unforeseen problems and (2) the value of an M3 with 40-50K miles (assuming that's when the work is done). There's also the question of whether an M3 with resized crank journals takes a hit in value (assuming the seller discloses this).

I think most of us have three practical options:

1) Sell the car when it goes out of warranty;
2) Get an extended warranty that at least covers the engine; or
3) Replace the OEM bearings with OEM bearings when the warranty expires.

As to the last option, if you've had the car since new, you should be able to gauge how long you can go on the new bearings before replacing them.

[schnell325]

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Top_Gear

OK this is much appreciated, you are saying there is an "engine shop" somewhere that for about $5000 will guarantee that you will not suffer engine failure from this bearing problem. I find that hard to believe but if you can point me to such a shop within 100 miles of Los Angeles I would be very interested in paying them a visit. But I definitely wouldn't want to be their first job.

In alphabetic order:
Auto Talent in Carson, CA. They have built approximately eight of the RD Sport S65 stroker motors, in addition to S85 stroker motors.

RD Sport is in Anaheim, CA. They design and build stroker motors for S65 and S85.

Both shops are competent to do this work. Both could quote you for the R&R and motor assembly. Crank resizing would be handled separately. I have a pretty good idea what it would cost from each shop.

Then if you're interested in top of the line work, there's always Van Dyne Engineering in Huntington Beach CA. They won't remove and replace the engine, but they will build it for you. Expect to pay much more for this level of work however.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Yellow Snow

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure that most owners on here will never have a bearing issue and if per chance they had a failed bearing, a complete used replacement engine is easy enough to source for $5k.

If you can find a used S65 for $5k, please PM me. I'm a buyer even at $6k, and I can't find anything close to that right now. But to be honest, I haven't been looking very hard either.

Would I trust a machine shop to lick .001" off all 8 journals and maintain the almost perfect oem surface finish? No I wouldn't. Yes it can be done, but it's fair to say 5 out of 10 shops would screw up an expensive crank.

It is fairly easy if you know the right shop to do it and send out to re-nitride the journals to factory surface. I have two spare S65 cranks, and I'm thinking of sending them out to have it done and offer as core replacements.

Being that most of the failures are on charged motors, does the crank pulley damage the bearing with it's unusual loading?

This issue wouldn't be so serious if that were the case. That's why we've mostly been showing the bearings of NA engines (some bone stock) to show how this can happen to anybody. And that's a great question about the load on the nose of the crank. For a three-rail pulley that drives the blower from the third rail, you would definitely get more load on the nose than a standard two-rail pulley that uses the inside rail for driving the blower. Maybe kawasaki can chime in on the load to the nose of the crank.

EDIT: NA: So far, I haven't seen any excessive wear on main bearings, especially #1 main bearings. I have seen a damaged crank due to bad main bearings, but it wasn't #1. FI: And I've only seen one FI set of main bearings, and I'd have to go take another look at the pictures to see if the #1 had any excessive wear on it. I don't think it did, but I will have to go check. If there's sufficient interest, PM me and I'll send you the photo of the mains that came out of this motor.

[Yellow Snow]

Originally Posted by regular guy

If you can find a used S65 for $5k, please PM me. I'm a buyer even at $6k, and I can't find anything close to that right now. But to be honest, I haven't been looking very hard either.



It is fairly easy if you know the right shop to do it and send out to re-nitride the journals to factory surface. I have two spare S65 cranks, and I'm thinking of sending them out to have it done and offer as core replacements.



This issue wouldn't be so serious if that were the case. That's why we've mostly been showing the bearings of NA engines (some bone stock) to show how this can happen to anybody. And that's a great question about the load on the nose of the crank. For a three-rail pulley that drives the blower from the third rail, you would definitely get more load on the nose than a standard two-rail pulley that uses the inside rail for driving the blower. Maybe kawasaki can chime in on the load to the nose of the crank.

EDIT: NA: So far, I haven't seen any excessive wear on main bearings, especially #1 main bearings. I have seen a damaged crank due to bad main bearings, but it wasn't #1. FI: And I've only seen one FI set of main bearings, and I'd have to go take another look at the pictures to see if the #1 had any excessive wear on it. I don't think it did, but I will have to go check. If there's sufficient interest, PM me and I'll send you the photo of the mains that came out of this motor.

Thanks. It's an interesting thread. I'm on warranty so not too bothered if mine blows. I'm sceptical but fascinated at the same time re the possible problem

Ebay UK turns up this at under £3k Sterling http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E90-E9...item4d0e4f22b3

A bit more expensive. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-M3-4-0...item4857918682

Or supply and fit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-M3-E90...item1c367ff901

It's fairly easy to get a good verified engine over here for that kind of money.

How about this for an option? I've done this myself years ago, so I know it works.

In the absence of an undersize bearing from Clevite. A press tool can be made to sit the bearing half into. The press can be set to crush the malleable bearing by .0005" or whatever is required. The joint faces can be lapped back to standard on 240 wet and dry mounted on a surface plate.

I know it sounds mad, but it can be done with a decent press tool. Once set, it could adjust hundreds of bearings.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Obviously you haven't paid much attention to what has been happening on here for the last little while. Basically all of the S65's and S85's that have had the pans removed and bearings inspected have all had excessive wear on the bearings.

So why would someone remove the oil pan? Most would do so because there was something else that led them to remove the oil pan. An oil analysis, noise or suspicion. Or is removing the oil pan and inspecting the bearings normal maintenance? I'm not aware of that.

So basically you are applying your observation on a VERY small and insignificant population of what's actually been produced to every car. You are sampling a non-representative sample of S65 and S85 engines...ones with identified issues.

Back to my earlier statement...continue with your campaign of baseless fear.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

So why would someone remove the oil pan? Most would do so because there was something else that led them to remove the oil pan. An oil analysis, noise or suspicion. Or is removing the oil pan and inspecting the bearings normal maintenance? I'm not aware of that.

So basically you are applying your observation on a VERY small and insignificant population of what's actually been produced to every car. You are sampling a non-representative sample of S65 and S85 engines...ones with identified issues.

Back to my earlier statement...continue with your campaign of baseless fear.

Let's get one thing straight, it is not a campaign nor is it baseless fear..... 0.001" on a 2" journal is too tight period.

I am not aware of why all of the pans were removed but the findings were all rock solid! Tell me what happens when a bearing fails and siezes or spins in the rod? It usually results in severe engine crank journal and or damage to the block!

Anyhow I don't want to waste the effort to discuss/defend my reasoning with you any more. To me it sounds like you don't want to believe it because you don't want to have to commit to repairing your engine and that is up to you. So see no evil hear no evil and all will be ok for you!

I wish you many years of joy from your M3 and I hope you don't have any bearing issues. The fact of the matter is if you keep the car long enough and keep running the 10W60 you are highly likely to experience an issue with your rod bearings. Although I don't get joy from anyone loosing their engine.... At that point I will be saying "I told you so!"

[bigjae1976]

Good, so you'll shut up about it now?

But you are still missing the point. I agree with your conclusion that there is some risk involved...coming from someone who has already rebuilt an S54 and owns an S54 and S65...with the bearings and the clearances.

It's your assertion that everyone needs to automatically go to thinner oil and/or pull their engine to have high precision (and high risk) machine work done. And that 10w-60 oil will cause your rod bearings will spin, score and bend the crank, and blow the rod out of the sides of the block (that's happened to my m54.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Good, so you'll shut up about it now?

But you are still missing the point. I agree with your conclusion that there is some risk involved...coming from someone who has already rebuilt an S54 and owns an S54 and S65...with the bearings and the clearances.

It's your assertion that everyone needs to automatically go to thinner oil and/or pull their engine to have high precision (and high risk) machine work done. And that 10w-60 oil will cause your rod bearings will spin, score and bend the crank, and blow the rod out of the sides of the block (that's happened to my m54.

Listen here, don't be telling anyone to shut up, your childishness has no place here. Please choose to ignore my posts since I don't think anyone asked you your input!

If majority of the other people on here would like me to stop posting please let me know and I will certainly oblige. Usually I get paid big money to work on and troubleshoot engine issues, I am offering my expertise on here free of charge to those who want it. For people like you, I highly doubt someone has a gun to your head making you read my posts and reply to them.

[aus]

I'm hoping bigjae is a little drunk because he's usually one of the cooler guys here. No need to be attacking anyone here, whether you agree with them or not on this subject.

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I would not mix these two as it is 2 different base stocks. If you want to runt he 0-40 mix it with a thicker oil from the same manufacturer.

What do you think of mixing BMW 5W30 with BMW 10W60? or Euro Castrol 0W30 with BMW 10W60?

Thanks.

.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Yellow Snow

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure that most owners on here will never have a bearing issue and if per chance they had a failed bearing, a complete used replacement engine is easy enough to source for $5k.

So please don't flame me, but here's a few points.

Would I trust a machine shop to lick .001" off all 8 journals and maintain the almost perfect oem surface finish? No I wouldn't. Yes it can be done, but it's fair to say 5 out of 10 shops would screw up an expensive crank.

Opening up the clearances will lose oil pressure and make the pump work harder. This in turn could starve other components.

Surface contact in the bearing would also be reduced. Not good on cold starts.

Being that most of the failures are on charged motors, does the crank pulley damage the bearing with it's unusual loading?

Most of the blown engines did not have a blower. This link doesn't even include all the shredded bearings people have been posting lately.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...light=registry

.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by aus

I'm hoping bigjae is a little drunk because he's usually one of the cooler guys here. No need to be attacking anyone here, whether you agree with them or not on this subject.

I'm not willing to watch the observations of one person become the truth for all. BMRLVR has come to the same conclusion that many others have come to, his knowledge was never the issue. But he did not consider that there are other people that drive M3s that do not post here or participate on internet forums. Shocking, I know. What you'll find (based on seeing E9X M3s at the track and talking to dealerships) is that most people's engines don't blow up or show signs of excessive rod bearing wear. Are there cases of this? Of course but you have to consider the application for which the car was designed for.

I think I usually am pretty laid back but not in this case. This is OUR community here online. We should all be here to share facts and discuss opinions. BMRLVR is NOT the only one this is targeted at but to all who shut people down and don't take the time to read responses. Usually not a big deal but there are people out there that are considering dishing out $000's to fix a perceived problem based on a couple of people's opinions that the S65 is an engine with this inherent issue in 100% of the production run and their assertion that they know more than BMW engineers.

I do know this fact, I'll trust BMW engineers more than me and anyone on this forum. What has NEVER been answered (or at least I've never seen the explanation) is WHY? WHY did BMW make the clearances so tight? Before I put on an aftermarket modification the question that has to be answered in my mind if why is this part less than optimal for my application? Because you are sacrificing something since BMW optimizes parts to suit a number of attributes (cost, comfort, performance, reliability, etc.).