Turner Motorsports test pipes

[BradDickinson]

I am hoping to get some input on the test pipes at Turner Motorsports:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-13...at-delete.aspx

I have a 2012 E92 M3 and to me it sems that for $400 there is no better bang for your buck seeing as it markets 40 HP and 32 ft/lb torque.

I know this delete the cats, does anyone have experience using these on the street? In Cali?

Are the results similar if the pipes are not coupled with the stage II race software?

If this is unquestionably illegal on the street is there anything else that can deliver that type of power for the cost?

Your help is appreciated!

[IMG]

Just get a Challenge Xpipe !

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634392

comes in different flavors,Good Luck !

[Black Gold]

I would definitely choose the test pipes over x pipes for a few reasons

1) Fitment is not an issue, clearance is not an issue etc.....everything is spot on with zero leaks or issues. This was NOT the case with a full x pipe setup prior

2) It makes more power than an x pipe with HFC, I have substantial seat time in both. Very noticeable torque and power gains

3) It sounds better and cleaner when combined with the stock x pipe (unless you like really loud exhausts). Combined with a dinan muffler, the car sounds awesome and has only a very very tiny amount of drone at 2k-2.2k rpm that can only be heard when on the gas and the windows are down.

4) Price is much less than other x pipes

Bottom line, I love the turner test pipes. Yes, you will need a tune should you decide to run these to account for the SES light. Contact ESS for this.

No, you will not pass an OBD-II based test with this or any other x pipe (unless you get lucky and the o2 extenders actually work, they didnt for me).

[TRY...M3]

img is right...youll be very happy with a challenge x-pipe but theyre not too cheap. If your on a budget go with the turner test pipes ive heard good things about them

[AlteredBe4st]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I would definitely choose the test pipes over x pipes for a few reasons

1) Fitment is not an issue, clearance is not an issue etc.....everything is spot on with zero leaks or issues. This was NOT the case with a full x pipe setup prior

2) It makes more power than an x pipe with HFC, I have substantial seat time in both. Very noticeable torque and power gains

3) It sounds better and cleaner when combined with the stock x pipe (unless you like really loud exhausts). Combined with a dinan muffler, the car sounds awesome and has only a very very tiny amount of drone at 2k-2.2k rpm that can only be heard when on the gas and the windows are down.

4) Price is much less than other x pipes

Bottom line, I love the turner test pipes. Yes, you will need a tune should you decide to run these to account for the SES light. Contact ESS for this.

No, you will not pass an OBD-II based test with this or any other x pipe (unless you get lucky and the o2 extenders actually work, they didnt for me).

+1

[dbyrd]

I too am considering the TTP option - I don't want to jack your thread, but I think the OP would be interested in additional clarification:

1. Several threads indicate decreased torque below 3-4K RPMs with the TTP - is this accurate, please describe.

2. Other than the CEL issue, what would be the gain/affect without the tune?

3. I was planning to carefully remove the cats so I could reinstall them when I need to pass state inspection - will this work?

Thanks!

[yomny]

According to their dyno, it seems that all are gains. This of course is with a reflash, without one you may get half or a bit less than the advertised whp. The test pipes require a cut after the original cats, and then using the supplied clamps you bolt the front to the headers and clamp the rear part of the tp to the oem xpipe. To return to stock cats, you do the same, bolt front and clamp rear. What i don't really understand is how these could make a whopping 40whp when full exhausts without primary and secondary cats only see about 28whp. The only explanation i could think of is all the exhausts advertise gained whp without a tune. I would definitely get these, i had ordered them but weren't in stock. The only drawback is that if you're leasing your car, you these tp's required cutting the stock exhaust and they might give you trouble when returning the lease if they happen to look under the car.

[kitw]

There is no reason to spend 3x as much on a challenge X pipe, imho, unless you want to go completely catless. The TTP are the best price/performance cat delete on the market.

You will need to find some sort of solution for the CEL (or just deal with it being on) but other than that, no downsides. (same as other x pipes)

[a burrito]

These are great if you want to save your money and if you want something quiet. I just took off my rpi x pipe last night and replaced it with the TTP's and I don't know if I got used to the loud rpi catles pipe but the car sounded completely stock to me. Super quiet.

[Boostin FD]

any solution for the smell? With the tuner test pipe, does a secondary cat absorb any smell at all?

I have Borla X pipe with 4 resonators and Megan racing exhaust... I love the sound, but the smell... I know it would be there, but was hoping it wouldn't be as much.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

any solution for the smell? With the tuner test pipe, does a secondary cat absorb any smell at all?

I have Borla X pipe with 4 resonators and Megan racing exhaust... I love the sound, but the smell... I know it would be there, but was hoping it wouldn't be as much.

There is still some smell but not near as bad as when completely catless. I only seem to really notice an increase in smell at startup when the rear cats aren't to temp. Also, I run a race gas blend and actually like the smell.

Dave

[Boostin FD]

Interesting... I might hack up my borla x-pipe and put 2 cats in there... Anybody know specs on the secondary ones? I don't want to touch the stock x-pipe as I may not to put it back on.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

Interesting... I might hack up my borla x-pipe and put 2 cats in there... Anybody know specs on the secondary ones? I don't want to touch the stock x-pipe as I may not to put it back on.

The rear cats on the OEM xpipe are 200cpi metallic cats.

Dave

[dbyrd]

Please clarify - a few other threads have indicated that once the OEM cats are removed, there is not enough room for them to be reinstalled using clamps in order to to pass inspection. Can the OEM primary cats be easily reinstalled with clamps or do they have to be welded?

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Please clarify - a few other threads have indicated that once the OEM cats are removed, there is not enough room for them to be reinstalled using clamps in order to to pass inspection. Can the OEM primary cats be easily reinstalled with clamps or do they have to be welded?

The pipes I saw were re-welded.

Dave

[AlteredBe4st]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

any solution for the smell? With the tuner test pipe, does a secondary cat absorb any smell at all?

I have Borla X pipe with 4 resonators and Megan racing exhaust... I love the sound, but the smell... I know it would be there, but was hoping it wouldn't be as much.

The secondary cats do a good job with the smell, you do get some smell at start up but not a much if you were completely catless. I have had experience with both and I recommend keeping the secondary cats. The Turner test pipe is a no brainer for those wanting to delete their cats.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by yomny

According to their dyno, it seems that all are gains. This of course is with a reflash, without one you may get half or a bit less than the advertised whp. The test pipes require a cut after the original cats, and then using the supplied clamps you bolt the front to the headers and clamp the rear part of the tp to the oem xpipe. To return to stock cats, you do the same, bolt front and clamp rear. What i don't really understand is how these could make a whopping 40whp when full exhausts without primary and secondary cats only see about 28whp. The only explanation i could think of is all the exhausts advertise gained whp without a tune. I would definitely get these, i had ordered them but weren't in stock. The only drawback is that if you're leasing your car, you these tp's required cutting the stock exhaust and they might give you trouble when returning the lease if they happen to look under the car.

You cannot clamp the stock cats back on, they will have to be welded. I recommend buying a 2nd stock x-pipe off of someone and modify it if you intend on doing this and want to return to stock.

[LostM]

I plan on doing these very shortly. But thats ad far as im goin, well add an air filter. But i dont want a tune, or a CEL.
So im waiting on a friend who had said there will be a CEL fix that allows readiness, and costs about $200. Once i find out when and where exactly i can get that from, ill install the TTPs

[lcrain]

Those of you who use these, what do you do when inspection time rolls around?

[BradDickinson]

Thanks to all for the input and all the other contextual info.

I am in a similar situation as LostM, I want to use the test pipes but without a tune or CEL. I was also planning on keeping all other pipes stock.

My plan was to do the following:

Test Pipes
Air Filter
Underdrive Power Pulleys

Knowing I want the above mods is there something I would need to add? Is the tune truly going to double the gains of the test pipes?

What will need to be done for emissions testing...will I pass with simply reinstalling the stock cats for the test?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by BradDickinson

Thanks to all for the input and all the other contextual info.

I am in a similar situation as LostM, I want to use the test pipes but without a tune or CEL. I was also planning on keeping all other pipes stock.

My plan was to do the following:

Test Pipes
Air Filter
Underdrive Power Pulleys

Knowing I want the above mods is there something I would need to add? Is the tune truly going to double the gains of the test pipes?

What will need to be done for emissions testing...will I pass with simply reinstalling the stock cats for the test?

The rear 02s used for emissions purposes are located immediately after the primary converters and a few feet before the secondary converters. Therefore, removing the primary converters will trigger a CEL and the retention of the secondary converters does nothing to help.

At present, few if any tuners offer a tune that "simulates" the rear 02s so the car will pass OBD2 plug in readiness monitor testing. Most of the tuners are just turning off the rear 02s, which means you fail two readiness monitors and that is more than allowable in most states for a 2008 or newer vehicle. One device simply resets the codes for the converters every few minutes so the CEL never comes on, but the readiness monitors still fail for the rear 02s.

It seems possible to extend the rear 02 harness and add new rear 02 bungs after the secondary cats. However, I have not seen anyone do this yet and figure there must be a reason although I have asked the question and reveived no real answer other than a vague "everything has already been tried."

It is also possible to insert high flow cats into the space occupied by the stock primary cats. One problem is that the stock primary cats are very low profile at 2.5 to 3.0 inches thick (although oval and wide and long) and high flow cats are 4 inches diameter (and round and short). This means there is a risk of scraping.

Most of the aftermarket x-pipes do not address the problem you want addressed. If you look at pictures of exhausts in the sticky thread, you will see that only a few of the exhausts include high flow cats where the stock primary cats are located.

Probably eventually the tuners will learn more about the ECU and be able to tune it better. Factory ECU are very complex. There are teams of software engineers with massive budgets programming them and there are many maps. A proper simulation will come in time. When I looked into this recently, I think Evolve suggested it might have something and M3DCTBT said he has a tune that preserves OBD2 readiness with no cats or high flow cats.

I have a resonatorless, catless x-pipe on the workbench right now. It was way too loud and smelled way to gassy for my tastes. I ran it only for a few days. I just cut it up and inserted four resonators and tack welded them. I will drop it off at the tig welders today. My guess is that I will be going back for round two and adding a set of high flow cats where the primary cats would be located and hoping they don't scrape too much. I'll use metallic core 200 CPI. It is not cheap. I paid $475 for the x-pipe, $180 for the resonators, and will pay about $100 for the welding. If I add the high flow cats, that will be another $250. That would be about $1000 and I have some time in this project as well. Makes a new or used x-pipe worth considering although something like the Active Autowerkes x-pipe with high flow cats located in the proper location costs $2,300.

http://store.activeautowerke.com/act...w-cats-p2.aspx

A good welder could remove your x-pipe and add a V-band connection for turner test pipes and the stock high flow cats. It would not quite look factory and the V-band clamp reduces ground clearance slightly, but it would make swapping easy. Figure on $150-$200 for the 4 V-band clamps and $200 for the eight tig welds and probably $150 for two hours of labor for the removal, cutting and reinstalling, plus the $400 for the test pipes. You can use inexpensive band clamps but some people say the do not seal well. They are about 3 inches wide and one version is designed for butting tubing inside. I have had mixed success with them in the past. I am not sure whether the factory pipe is double walled stainless in that location or not -- that could complicate the sealing.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

My research suggests that the majority of the gain comes without a tune, but that the tune helps. Roughly, if you make 20 rwhp without a tune, you might make 30 rwhp with a tune. Although the stock ECU is very adaptable and capable -- it runs off wide band 02 sensors and is full time closed loop, a tune will help.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by lcrain

Those of you who use these, what do you do when inspection time rolls around?

I have my OEM xpipe still intact. I cut up a used one I bought.

Dave