NJMP Lightning - Let me have it! :-)

[66BM]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

Several valid points above about instructor to student and instructor2instructor communication, instructors have to do their best to manage the current situation.

However, it's the responsibility of each registrar to not overbook any particular event. Some traffic is expected, especially in the lower groups, but what I see on that video is unacceptable (to me) and would not run with an organization that overbooks its events. The spacing numbers are clear and well known for a track like this.

At the end of day we all spend $$ to go to the track and the organizers have to do their best to provide maximum track time (& education where applicable), that is usable track time, not traffic/parade lap time. I would encourage everyone to explore different clubs and see how they deal with run groups and maximize track time

A few more points. there are rules and regulations that limit the total number of cars allowed on track at any given time. From the video having that amount cars in front of you is not a lot of traffic. While it may have looked like a parade lap, as other instructors have mentioned, pull into the pits let the traffic pass then get back on track. Being that this was a lower level run group, there is traffic to be expected. Most full run groups can have up to 30 cars, that was 10ish. I also recommend students try other clubs. As I instruct for NASA, BMW, Porsche, SCCA and Audi, they all have their challenges, all have traffic management requirements and IMHO BMW has been the most well organized from a student / instructor point of view. Maybe it's because I average 50-60 days a year but I tend to see a lot from a lot of clubs. All good, all with different issues.

[WarrantyTracker]

Hey did I see you at the Jeff weekend before last (Sept. 28)?

I wound up in B group, in a car with maybe 100 horsepower at the wheels.

Every type-1 turn went like this:

Brake
Turn-in
Apex
Roll on throttle and unwind
point by
point by
point by

Well, not quite every type 1 turn.

But anyway, the instructor was fantastic, really super. And if any of the other instructors registered concerns to the CI, it didn't result in a group reassignment (which I offered to take from the start).

[66BM]

Originally Posted by WarrantyTracker

Hey did I see you at the Jeff weekend before last (Sept. 28)?

I wound up in B group, in a car with maybe 100 horsepower at the wheels.

Every type-1 turn went like this:

Brake
Turn-in
Apex
Roll on throttle and unwind
point by
point by
point by

Well, not quite every type 1 turn.

But anyway, the instructor was fantastic, really super. And if any of the other instructors complained to the CI, it didn't result in a group reassignment (which I offered to take from the start).

Instructors don't complain to the CI. We bring up concerns and may say, hey, there is one or two cars that need to do this or that. And it is usually addressed immediately. I still did not see any issues with the video. Traffic is to be expected. If you want a traffic free day, I suggest you call the president of NJMP and ask to rent the track for that day. If some would like, I can provide that contact info. Depending on the day, week and month, it will run, 25-150k for the day.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Traffic is to be expected. If you want a traffic free day, I suggest you call the president of NJMP and ask to rent the track for that day. If some would like, I can provide that contact info. Depending on the day, week and month, it will run, 25-150k for the day.

Constant traffic is not normal, that argument may fly with the beginners but not with the people that have spent some time running with different clubs. It's a sign of overbooked events or unbalanced sessions.

The truth is, if you want a traffic free day find a club that does not overbook its events. Last IMG event at NJMP had 5 cars running in advanced, on a weekend. The NASA event prior to that had about 20, weekend again. Open track days are always an option too.

So save that call to the NJMP president, pocket the 25-150k and be smart with your $350 for a 2-day NJMP session with the right club.

[klammer]

I've found traffic to be a certainty in all but the advanced groups. If you're hitting traffic in the advanced group, then, IMHO, you've got a problem, other than that, just part of game. Intermediate drivers just aren't that good yet....one other thing is to consider the size of the track...small/tight tracks are breeding grounds for traffic

[bigjae1976]

I think learning to drive in traffic is an important skill. It never fails. A student catches a car and then immediately starts driving the same crappy line the guy in front is driving. Then...sometimes...ends up going off. Its a hard habit to break for just about everyone. So there is value but it definitely gets old.

[will.c]

I just came back from PCA Del @ Thunderbolt. All weekend, I hit only 1 minor traffic in the intermediate group of 30+ cars in such a short track.

I'd say it depends more on the level of organization carried out by the sanctioning body and the type of attendees it attracts. Typically PCAs around here seem to have good pace even in intermediate, and people there seem to have good awareness of traffic management.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

Constant traffic is not normal, that argument may fly with the beginners but not with the people that have spent some time running with different clubs. It's a sign of overbooked events or unbalanced sessions.

The truth is, if you want a traffic free day find a club that does not overbook its events. Last IMG event at NJMP had 5 cars running in advanced, on a weekend. The NASA event prior to that had about 20, weekend again. Open track days are always an option too.

So save that call to the NJMP president, pocket the 25-150k and be smart with your $350 for a 2-day NJMP session with the right club.

First off, the video posted did not show constant traffic. It showed a line of 10-12 cars. Unless you are an advanced driver, or instructor, you're going to hit traffic. Even at IMG. (I instruct for them as well). Unfortunately you have to deal with it. It's not a race. Its a DE. If you want something more challenging, step up, become and instructor and / or racer. Otherwise it is what it is. BY LAW, the people that put together the events can only put so many cars on track at one time. PERIOD. This isn't a number that fluctuates. Its written in the by-laws of the governing body, the state. The fact that traffic seems to frustrate you, indicates you might need to learn more traffic management all together.

As most of the others have posted here, it is what it is. If you are constantly hitting traffic with one particular club, and it bothers you that much, then stop going to that club. End of story. We instructors and organizers do our very best to ensure SAFETY first of all drivers, teaching control at all speeds, and in all situations. This video posted by the OP showed very little traffic. Certainly no parade lap. You can argue all you want, but as I said, if it bothers you that much, find other clubs. Also as I've stated, I instruct for a very many of the ones mentioned here, and the ALL have traffic issues at one time or another.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by 66BM

First off, the video posted did not show constant traffic. It showed a line of 10-12 cars. Unless you are an advanced driver, or instructor, you're going to hit traffic. Even at IMG. (I instruct for them as well). Unfortunately you have to deal with it. It's not a race. Its a DE. If you want something more challenging, step up, become and instructor and / or racer. Otherwise it is what it is. BY LAW, the people that put together the events can only put so many cars on track at one time. PERIOD. This isn't a number that fluctuates. Its written in the by-laws of the governing body, the state. The fact that traffic seems to frustrate you, indicates you might need to learn more traffic management all together.

As most of the others have posted here, it is what it is. If you are constantly hitting traffic with one particular club, and it bothers you that much, then stop going to that club. End of story. We instructors and organizers do our very best to ensure SAFETY first of all drivers, teaching control at all speeds, and in all situations. This video posted by the OP showed very little traffic. Certainly no parade lap. You can argue all you want, but as I said, if it bothers you that much, find other clubs. Also as I've stated, I instruct for a very many of the ones mentioned here, and the ALL have traffic issues at one time or another.

thank for you making my point, 2 paragraphs of defending the traffic situation as "it is what it is" and not a word on what you do as an instructor or an organizer to resolve the situation. Perhaps it's time to step back and look at the big picture.

My message is to the fellow track enthusiasts to research all clubs and pick the ones that provide the best value for you, don't accept preconceived notions of what's acceptable and normal. I'm signing off on this thread.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by will.c

I just came back from PCA Del @ Thunderbolt. All weekend, I hit only 1 minor traffic in the intermediate group of 30+ cars in such a short track.

I'd say it depends more on the level of organization carried out by the sanctioning body and the type of attendees it attracts. Typically PCAs around here seem to have good pace even in intermediate, and people there seem to have good awareness of traffic management.

+1

PCA seems to be doing a good balancing job/having good pace at the intermediate level.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

thank for you making my point, 2 paragraphs of defending the traffic situation as "it is what it is" and not a word on what you do as an instructor or an organizer to resolve the situation. Perhaps it's time to step back and look at the big picture.

My message is to the fellow track enthusiasts to research all clubs and pick the ones that provide the best value for you, don't accept preconceived notions of what's acceptable and normal. I'm signing off on this thread.

You're absolutely wrong, yet again. I made the point previously. Pull off, let traffic pass, then proceed. Its easy. If you are at an intermediate level and you don't experience traffic, then you aren't learning. I instruct for them as well and have also seen many traffic jams, as you call them. Again, 10-12 cars in a row is not traffic on a track. It's not a race, its a DE. Students NEED traffic management to progress to advanced and advanced solo.

You once again proved the point of mine and others, that your inexperience and impatience is what is garnering your response to traffic more than anything else. And again, as I and others have stated, as well as yourself, if you don't like the "experience" with the club, find another.

And you are right about preconceived notions. Yours are toxic to those drivers trying to learn, you're preconceived notion that there is no traffic at one club or another is wrong. Again, averaging 60+ days a year, instructing for Audi, PCA, BMW, IMG, NJMP, SCCA, NASA, up and down the east coast, you tend to see it all. Sign-off if you want, but disparaging one club over another due to a ill-conceived notion is not beneficial to anyone here.

OP, I'll see you in a few days. We can talk further about suggestions, comments and fixes for what you'd like to improve.

[WarrantyTracker]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Instructors don't complain to the CI. We bring up concerns and may say, hey, there is one or two cars that need to do this or that. And it is usually addressed immediately. I still did not see any issues with the video. Traffic is to be expected. If you want a traffic free day, I suggest you call the president of NJMP and ask to rent the track for that day. If some would like, I can provide that contact info. Depending on the day, week and month, it will run, 25-150k for the day.

Noted, poor choice of words to say "complained."

To be clear, I wasn't expressing any concern about "traffic" and I wasn't at the OP's event. Overall, I second your emotion.

I have been to events run by three different clubs this summer, on tracks short and long. The only concern I heard expressed about traffic by any driver at any event was by a panicked novice who didn't want anybody remotely near her on the track. I think she was just having a bad day, and I hope things got better for her.

"Trains" might develop but they seem to get resolved on the next straight or the one after. Maybe if somebody's bored waiting 45 seconds for the straight, they could work on off-line driving (with their DI's concurrence) so they'll be ready for all-course passing when (and if) they finally level up to it.

SO back to my post - hey dmw16, did I see you at the Jeff, and what group were you driving?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 66BM

You're absolutely wrong, yet again. I made the point previously. Pull off, let traffic pass, then proceed. Its easy. If you are at an intermediate level and you don't experience traffic, then you aren't learning. I instruct for them as well and have also seen many traffic jams, as you call them. Again, 10-12 cars in a row is not traffic on a track. It's not a race, its a DE. Students NEED traffic management to progress to advanced and advanced solo.

You once again proved the point of mine and others, that your inexperience and impatience is what is garnering your response to traffic more than anything else. And again, as I and others have stated, as well as yourself, if you don't like the "experience" with the club, find another.

And you are right about preconceived notions. Yours are toxic to those drivers trying to learn, you're preconceived notion that there is no traffic at one club or another is wrong. Again, averaging 60+ days a year, instructing for Audi, PCA, BMW, IMG, NJMP, SCCA, NASA, up and down the east coast, you tend to see it all. Sign-off if you want, but disparaging one club over another due to a ill-conceived notion is not beneficial to anyone here.

OP, I'll see you in a few days. We can talk further about suggestions, comments and fixes for what you'd like to improve.

For what it's worth I was at that event, ran Yellow and got bumped to Advanced on day 2. I wholeheartedly agree that learning to drive in traffic is significant in one's DE progress. The late passing exercises I did with NJ and Del CCA in the past seasons really helped me get comfortable with passing offline and being aware of other fast drivers. However with that said, this August event was really bad. Of the 30+ days I've done, this was by far the worst event due to limited track time per session (I was lucky to get 15 mins per session on the first day... 60 mins of total driving time, really?) and constant traffic... and let me also add my instructor felt the same way. He kept uttering how ridiculous each session was.

I have no problem pulling out and wait for things to clear up but it doesn't help if you catch up to that same train 2 mins later or even worse another one because there's more than 1 offender. I must've pulled out 4x per session on the first day, I barely got the tires/brakes to warm up. I think it was a combination of the event being overbooked and drivers not properly being placed in a proper run group and I think the latter is the real issue here. There were 3-4 cars (Mazda 3, brown Tii, chump car and 1 other model) that caused long trains and would only give a pass on the main straight. Just like instructors have no problem rejecting a driver's request to get bumped up, I think they should have no problem bumping a driver down. I suspect however it'd cause a logistical problem in terms of instructor pairing. So maybe you have more instructors ready on 'stand-by' for situations like this.

On day 2, things were much better. Drivers received 5 more mins of driving time, many of the drivers left early in the day and the Advanced group obviously didn't have a problem with passing signals. But at that point it was too little, too late. It's unfortunate but I wouldn't be surprised if next year's turn out is low. PCA was running at Thunderbolt that same weekend and I'll probably join them that weekend.

And nobody here is claiming to be the next Schumi or Kimi. I always check my ego at the door before every event because I know it's over confidence that can hurt/wreck you at the track. I get it, this isn't TT nor Race but educational. But despite what you're preaching, you can't ignore what happens with other clubs. We pay good money for a fun DE event, and yet the other clubs who sponsor the same type of DE for similar price doesn't/didn't have this problem (SCCA, NASA, PCA, HOD just to name a few). The evidence is there so why ignore it? And regarding your earlier comment about anyone coming to October to expect traffic, that is precisely why I'm not doing that event. I think the only CCA event I'll be doing in 2014 is LRP. CVC managed that event pretty well earlier this year and their LRP pricing is competitive.

[knolow]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I think learning to drive in traffic is an important skill. It never fails. A student catches a car and then immediately starts driving the same crappy line the guy in front is driving. Then...sometimes...ends up going off. Its a hard habit to break for just about everyone. So there is value but it definitely gets old.

I totally agree. It is actually hard to keep your line when tailing people. Its a good way to turn the crappy situation into a challenge. Traffic does happen, eventually someone is going to get a blue flag if its a driver. Best is to practice your line and keep picking people off until you move thru or pit.

If its bad in some sections try left foot braking or not braking thru turns.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

For what it's worth I was at that event, ran Yellow and got bumped to Advanced on day 2. I wholeheartedly agree that learning to drive in traffic is significant in one's DE progress. The late passing exercises I did with NJ and Del CCA in the past seasons really helped me get comfortable with passing offline and being aware of other fast drivers. However with that said, this August event was really bad. Of the 30+ days I've done, this was by far the worst event due to limited track time per session (I was lucky to get 15 mins per session on the first day... 60 mins of total driving time, really?) and constant traffic... and let me also add my instructor felt the same way. He kept uttering how ridiculous each session was.

I have no problem pulling out and wait for things to clear up but it doesn't help if you catch up to that same train 2 mins later or even worse another one because there's more than 1 offender. I must've pulled out 4x per session on the first day, I barely got the tires/brakes to warm up. I think it was a combination of the event being overbooked and drivers not properly being placed in a proper run group and I think the latter is the real issue here. There were 3-4 cars (Mazda 3, brown Tii, chump car and 1 other model) that caused long trains and would only give a pass on the main straight. Just like instructors have no problem rejecting a driver's request to get bumped up, I think they should have no problem bumping a driver down. I suspect however it'd cause a logistical problem in terms of instructor pairing. So maybe you have more instructors ready on 'stand-by' for situations like this.

On day 2, things were much better. Drivers received 5 more mins of driving time, many of the drivers left early in the day and the Advanced group obviously didn't have a problem with passing signals. But at that point it was too little, too late. It's unfortunate but I wouldn't be surprised if next year's turn out is low. PCA was running at Thunderbolt that same weekend and I'll probably join them that weekend.

And nobody here is claiming to be the next Schumi or Kimi. I always check my ego at the door before every event because I know it's over confidence that can hurt/wreck you at the track. I get it, this isn't TT nor Race but educational. But despite what you're preaching, you can't ignore what happens with other clubs. We pay good money for a fun DE event, and yet the other clubs who sponsor the same type of DE for similar price doesn't/didn't have this problem (SCCA, NASA, PCA, HOD just to name a few). The evidence is there so why ignore it? And regarding your earlier comment about anyone coming to October to expect traffic, that is precisely why I'm not doing that event. I think the only CCA event I'll be doing in 2014 is LRP. CVC managed that event pretty well earlier this year and their LRP pricing is competitive.

Again, unfortunately traffic does happen. But all sessions are a minimum of 25 mins. So I'm not sure about the 15 min session, as I was there in August as well. The October event is the intro to driving, so there will be a lot of first timers in the 'novice' group. However, the other groups will be very open. And if you're lucky enough to be invited to one of our open track days, that is an all together better experience. That said, most clubs are working on electronic assessments for drivers that we instructors fill out, giving us a better picture of an individuals skill prior to the event. This also helps the coordinators place people in the right run groups. Unfortunately, people lie, call it humility or pride, but they lie about their ability and most clubs take that person on their word and try to always put them in the correct group. I can honestly say that I think I've seen "traffic" at every event I've ever instructed. Unfortunately it is the nature of a faster driver over slower drivers. It doesn't just come down to skill levels, it also has to do with the car. There may be a 10-20 second difference in lap times from one car to another. That's big.

I'm sorry you'll be missing out on the fantastic CCA events that are lined up for 2014. I believe right now there are 25 of them. IMHO, I think the instructing at the CCA events is the best, as we follow a national program and set of guidelines that many other clubs are just starting to follow. Hence the reason most instructors at the other clubs are BMW instructors. As you progress into more advanced groups, the traffic and numbers go down, as the drivers become very experienced and much faster.

As I said before, again, and again, not one club is perfect, but if you like one club over another, and you are getting a better experience with one, then that is great. A person needs to do what makes them happy. To the original OP, again, see you Saturday. Your video showed a brief 10 cars going into T5, T6, T7 and T8. I'm sure it all cleared up once on the straight.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Again, unfortunately traffic does happen. But all sessions are a minimum of 25 mins. So I'm not sure about the 15 min session, as I was there in August as well. The October event is the intro to driving, so there will be a lot of first timers in the 'novice' group. However, the other groups will be very open. And if you're lucky enough to be invited to one of our open track days, that is an all together better experience. That said, most clubs are working on electronic assessments for drivers that we instructors fill out, giving us a better picture of an individuals skill prior to the event. This also helps the coordinators place people in the right run groups. Unfortunately, people lie, call it humility or pride, but they lie about their ability and most clubs take that person on their word and try to always put them in the correct group. I can honestly say that I think I've seen "traffic" at every event I've ever instructed. Unfortunately it is the nature of a faster driver over slower drivers. It doesn't just come down to skill levels, it also has to do with the car. There may be a 10-20 second difference in lap times from one car to another. That's big.

I'm sorry you'll be missing out on the fantastic CCA events that are lined up for 2014. I believe right now there are 25 of them. IMHO, I think the instructing at the CCA events is the best, as we follow a national program and set of guidelines that many other clubs are just starting to follow. Hence the reason most instructors at the other clubs are BMW instructors. As you progress into more advanced groups, the traffic and numbers go down, as the drivers become very experienced and much faster.

As I said before, again, and again, not one club is perfect, but if you like one club over another, and you are getting a better experience with one, then that is great. A person needs to do what makes them happy. To the original OP, again, see you Saturday. Your video showed a brief 10 cars going into T5, T6, T7 and T8. I'm sure it all cleared up once on the straight.

I did notice the online feedback on msr which was really helpful. Hopefully students will be classified accordingly but I still don't think it would hurt if they had a few instructors in standby to accomodate any last minute changes (ie bumping someone down). Like I said, it wasn't just the traffic that ruined the weekend but the absurd amount of short track time we got on day 1. I'm sure the schedule said 25 mins, but in truth folks only got 20 mins due to delays and if you factor in yellow flag first lap and cool down, you only got 15 mins. Now add on top of that pulling into the pits 3-4x per session to wait for traffic to clear, then how many clean laps did you really get in? Also it didn't help my instructor had another student and based on how the schedule was layed out, he'd always be on track (driving himself or instructing) before my session so I lost time just waiting for him in the grid.

In any case I agree with almost everything you say. Traffic is unavoidable, no club is perfect. But I find it funny that you won't admit that the August event in question was poorly managed. Maybe the instructors felt the event was a success but I assure you that was not the consensus view of the students. If you don't believe me, have Lisa M shoot a survey to the attendees. I'm not making this up, this is how the majority of us felt.

Also I forgot to add, I do think CCA instructors are top notch. I had Rob Ibitski twice and someone else who I can't recall, I want to say Steve but he and his father (same first name) club race although he said he doesn't instruct normally. But those 2 guys and my NASA mid-atlantic instructors were probably the best I've had.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I did notice the online feedback on msr which was really helpful. Hopefully students will be classified accordingly but I still don't think it would hurt if they had a few instructors in standby to accomodate any last minute changes (ie bumping someone down). Like I said, it wasn't just the traffic that ruined the weekend but the absurd amount of short track time we got on day 1. I'm sure the schedule said 25 mins, but in truth folks only got 20 mins due to delays and if you factor in yellow flag first lap and cool down, you only got 15 mins. Now add on top of that pulling into the pits 3-4x per session to wait for traffic to clear, then how many clean laps did you really get in? Also it didn't help my instrutor had another student and based on how the schedule was layed out, he'd always be on track before my session so I lost time just waiting for him in the grid.

In any case I agree with almost everything you say. Traffic is unavoidable, no club is perfect. But I find it funny that you won't admit that the August event in question was poorly managed. Maybe the instructors felt the event was a success but I assure you that was not the consensus view of the students. If you don't believe me, have Lisa M shoot a survey to the attendees. I'm not making this up, this is how the majority of us felt.

Also I forgot to add, I do think CCA instructors are top notch. I had Rob Ibitski twice and someone else who I can't recall, I want to say Steve but he and his father (same first name) club race although he said he doesn't instruct normally. But those 2 guys and my NASA mid-atlantic instructors were probably the best I've had.

Steve Sr. and Steve Jr. and Biscuit, as we call him. Know them well. I don't think any of the events are poorly managed, and I am truly sorry you feel it was. I don't organize the events. I instruct. However, I will give feedback to the Coordinator. You do have to take into account unforeseen issues, like black flags, offs, accidents, etc. I think the guys that try to manager these events do everything they can. And don't forget, NONE of us get paid, we are all their voluntarily.

I really wasn't aware that the time was shortened to that limit on the first day. I was racing at that event so I didn't instruct. However, usually instructors are spread out among the groups to allow for last minute changes. NASA has top notch instructors as well. I know a few of them, and a lot of their racers.

All I can say is, it's like any other major event. Unforeseen things can happen and are unfortunate. However, with understanding students like you, usually it gets straightened out and can be made up in other areas.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Steve Sr. and Steve Jr. and Biscuit, as we call him. Know them well. I don't think any of the events are poorly managed, and I am truly sorry you feel it was. I don't organize the events. I instruct. However, I will give feedback to the Coordinator. You do have to take into account unforeseen issues, like black flags, offs, accidents, etc. I think the guys that try to manager these events do everything they can. And don't forget, NONE of us get paid, we are all their voluntarily.

I really wasn't aware that the time was shortened to that limit on the first day. I was racing at that event so I didn't instruct. However, usually instructors are spread out among the groups to allow for last minute changes. NASA has top notch instructors as well. I know a few of them, and a lot of their racers.

All I can say is, it's like any other major event. Unforeseen things can happen and are unfortunate. However, with understanding students like you, usually it gets straightened out and can be made up in other areas.

All good, let's just chalk it up to that, unforeseen bad luck. I just remembered I have a $50 credit for a 2014 event, perhaps I'll be returning after all in which in that case this was all moot lol.

In terms of the timing, who knows but I know they made an announcement on day 2 about how they'd be adding 5 mins to the DE schedule and cutting the racers' time. Needless to say day 2 was much better.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

All good, let's just chalk it up to that, unforeseen bad luck. I just remembered I have a $50 credit for a 2014 event, perhaps I'll be returning after all in which in that case this was all moot lol.

In terms of the timing, who knows but I know they made an announcement on day 2 about how they'd be adding 5 mins to the DE schedule and cutting the racers' time. Needless to say day 2 was much better.

Yeah, the coordinators will do everything they can to add time and give back. Usually removing a black run group to do so. Early season and late season are usually best. Summers can be good. I know there is always tremendous turnout for the annual events. The big ones, 3 days at Summit Point, the WGI events. Those all get big turnout because of the races and friendships made. What run group are you in? Are you ready to move up? Moving up is a sure way of getting a lot of open track. However, does require some seat time. But with 30 days this year, you should be ready.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Yeah, the coordinators will do everything they can to add time and give back. Usually removing a black run group to do so. Early season and late season are usually best. Summers can be good. I know there is always tremendous turnout for the annual events. The big ones, 3 days at Summit Point, the WGI events. Those all get big turnout because of the races and friendships made. What run group are you in? Are you ready to move up? Moving up is a sure way of getting a lot of open track. However, does require some seat time. But with 30 days this year, you should be ready.

I'm the guy who always signs up intermediate but gets bumped up to advanced mid-weekend. I just don't sign up in advanced to begin with because depending on the club, sometimes advanced is combined with instructors (or racers) and I'm usually barely keeping up with the SE30 cars with my street tires. For PCA, I'm driving alongside (or behind) GT3 and cup cars lol. My August eval said I should go straight into advanced going forward, we'll see. I've only logged 10 days this year but I've done a total of 30+ over the last 2.5 years.

Btw, was your car built by VAC / NEMS? The blue and yellow paint scheme look familiar...

[66BM]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I'm the guy who always signs up intermediate but gets bumped up to advanced mid-weekend. I just don't sign up in advanced to begin with because depending on the club, sometimes advanced is combined with instructors (or racers) and I'm usually barely keeping up with the SE30 cars. For PCA, I'm driving alongside (or behind) GT3 and cup cars lol. My August eval said I should go straight into advanced going forward, we'll see. I've only logged 10 days this year but I've done a total of 30+ over the last 2.5 years.

Well most NJ/NY/DelVal CCA Events have an instructors run group separate (when then can and a race weekend isn't on). I would sign up advanced. It will give you an opportunity to be pushed a little and sharpen those skills even more. Getting passed is as important as passing.

[LightWerkz]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I'm the guy who always signs up intermediate but gets bumped up to advanced mid-weekend. I just don't sign up in advanced to begin with because depending on the club, sometimes advanced is combined with instructors (or racers) and I'm usually barely keeping up with the SE30 cars with my street tires. For PCA, I'm driving alongside (or behind) GT3 and cup cars lol. My August eval said I should go straight into advanced going forward, we'll see. I've only logged 10 days this year but I've done a total of 30+ over the last 2.5 years.

Btw, was your car built by VAC / NEMS? The blue and yellow paint scheme look familiar...

Yes its time for advanced, dont waste your time. When I made the jump to advanced it really helped sharpen my skills. Seeing how its done helps advance you quicker.

Originally Posted by 66BM

Well most NJ/NY/DelVal CCA Events have an instructors run group separate (when then can and a race weekend isn't on). I would sign up advanced. It will give you an opportunity to be pushed a little and sharpen those skills even more. Getting passed is as important as passing.

Much agreed.

I think I saw your car at NEMS, looking good