Pagid yellow vs. StopTech race pad comparo

[Sleeper519]

I ran Pagid RS-29s all last season on ST 380/355 BBK and loved them. I just put a set of StopTech SR34s on the front (kept Pagids in the rear) and ran them at Road Atlanta last weekend. Tires were fairly new NT-01s (which started to show tread splice, damnit). Weather was windy, cold, 30°F in the mornings and 45 in afternoon. I did a full brake fluid flush with Motul 660, bedded the pads in twice, and ran them on street to work for a few days the week before. They are noisey as hell as expected but do NOT quiet down like Pagids after bedding. They are also grabby when cold on the street.

On the track they performed very well. The first thing noticed is a firmer pedal. Despite the same bedding ritual the Pagids always seemed to have a little soft spot on the very top of the pedal travel before they engaged, while the STs were “right there”. The STs would grab early AND late, say the 1st 10% of the braking move and the last 10% would show increasing torque, right up to threshold, while the middle 80% of pedal travel would be very linear and hence easy to modulate. That last 10% “grab” caused me to activate ABS at threshold in the big brake zone on the backstretch (10A) with much less effort than I was used to. They did track straight and true without wiggle though. The Pagids however, despite having that initial soft spot on top, were very linear all the way down to the end. They required more pedal effort than the STs but you could really mash the hell out of them and they would just keep giving you more and more whoa without complaints all the way to a predictable threshold. ...The ST pedal felt like power-assist, while Pagid felt like straight up grunt.

I liked the way the SR34s felt and, as Bigjae pointed out, they are easy to trail brake with. I think they would be perfect autocross pads because of the excellent medium- speed modulation and good cold bite. On the track in the big high-speed straight line brake zones, I liked the Pagids predictable torque curve and solid pedal. I wonder if the SR33s with a little less torque might be a better fit for our cars.

The place where the STs lost points was in wear rate. I went thru over 50% of the pad in 2 days (8 x 25 min sessions). The last half of the pad will wear even faster because of less heat capacity, so maybe 4 days TOPS. The RS-29s lasted me 6-7 days at least. That’s 50% more pad life for only a little more cost.

So, the StopTech SR34 performed very well and had great feel on the track (I actually got used to driving them on the street but the high dust and noise would prevent long term use there—still got to change em out.). BUT, these are definitely not endurance pads IMHO, and I will probably go back to the Pagid RS-29s next go round. Still love the Yellow!

[thorny]

Nice post!

I am doing my first track day on Sunday with the StopTech BBK 380/360 and a set of used Pagid yellows (got both front and rears from Bigjae since he fell in love with StopTech race pads

I used to track with the stock brakes and StopTech street performance pads. I am flushed with Motul 660 and expect nothing less than the world of difference. I'll report back.

So far, I did the bed-in a couple of weeks ago following Pagid weird procedure, got the transfer layer, although it didn't look very uniform. No noise after the bed-in, but after a few days of street driving the transfer layer was gone, rotators look shiny and the pads make noise. They are too grabby for the street. I'll be using these for track only.

[RickyBobby]

Thanks for the writeup. I totally agree with your assessment of the pedal feel with a high mu sprint race pad. I too prefer the feel of a higher effort pedal of an endurance pad, especially with the brake force that the st60's provide.
I've got the sr33's going in my front stoptechs for this weekend. I wanted something with less torque for better control. I'll be keeping my pfc's in the rear in hopes of getting more rear bias though. The rear stoptechs just don't wear out..
The stoptech engineer told me that the sr33's are their longest lasting pad and have 15% less tq than the sr34's so I'm hoping they fit the bill for me with better life than you are reporting with your sr34's.
I'll report back on Monday.

[admranger]

Try PFC-08s next time (or 06s, if you like less initial bite). Then you'll know which you prefer from now until eternity. Pagids are great pads, but I do love my PFCs. Brand new set of 08s ready for abuse this weekend. If you don't like the PFCs, then you'll go back to Pagids and all is well. PFCs are usually cheaper than Pagids, but maybe I'm not looking at the right places to buy.

Great write up by the way! Good stuff in there.

[DZeckhausen]

With SR34 in front and RS29 in back, you were probably more front-biased than you wanted to be. I'll bet the consumption rate of the SR34 would be reduced if you ran a higher friction pad, such as SR32 (or perhaps even SR34) in back.

Alternatively, if you want to keep RS29 in back, you'll get longer front pad life with SR33 in front. And not just because it's a longer wearing pad, but also because the rear brakes will be doing a higher percentage of the work than they are now.

[AMPowerJ]

Nice review. It's time that I get back on the track. When are you planning on going back to VIR?

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by AMPowerJ

Nice review. It's time that I get back on the track. When are you planning on going back to VIR?

Hey, Ashley. I'll be there May 4-5 with Trackdaze, can't wait, VIR is my favorite!

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by DZeckhausen

With SR34 in front and RS29 in back, you were probably more front-biased than you wanted to be. I'll bet the consumption rate of the SR34 would be reduced if you ran a higher friction pad, such as SR32 (or perhaps even SR34) in back.

Alternatively, if you want to keep RS29 in back, you'll get longer front pad life with SR33 in front. And not just because it's a longer wearing pad, but also because the rear brakes will be doing a higher percentage of the work than they are now.

Thanks Dave, good points re the bias. I'll probably be keeping the RS29s in the back for now because, well...I just can't seem to wear this set out.

Maybe I will try out the SR33s next time.

[Richard@M-World]

Thanks Bill for the very informative review!

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by admranger

Try PFC-08s next time (or 06s, if you like less initial bite). Then you'll know which you prefer from now until eternity. Pagids are great pads, but I do love my PFCs. Brand new set of 08s ready for abuse this weekend. If you don't like the PFCs, then you'll go back to Pagids and all is well. PFCs are usually cheaper than Pagids, but maybe I'm not looking at the right places to buy.

Great write up by the way! Good stuff in there.

As much as I love the pfc's, their recent price hikes are ridiculous; which is why I'm branching out. Pagids are awesome pads too and offer good value considering their longevity.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

As much as I love the pfc's, their recent price hikes are ridiculous; which is why I'm branching out. Pagids are awesome pads too and offer good value considering their longevity.

Hmmmm, interesting. Pagids were ~20% more expensive than PFCs for the same pad type (29's vs 08's), iirc. That was less than a month ago when I last looked.

My 06's have hardly any wear on them after several events on the 02m3.

I'll keep my eyes on the prices though b/c Pagids are fine pads, though right now I am leaning more towards made in the US products when there are equal choices out there (odd for a guy who drives a German car and likes Japanese tires...).

Regardless, Pagids or PFC are both top shelf kit. I'd be happy with either on my cars.

[RickyBobby]

Pagid yellows are listed at approx $400 on turners site and the pfc08 are a little over $580 from zeckhausen. I was recently told that the Pfc 01's and 06's are now special order for the st60 caliper which will require a premium (perhaps dave z can chime in here).
With the pfc's pushing $600 shipped, the decision to look elsewhere was an easy one.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by admranger

Try PFC-08s next time (or 06s, if you like less initial bite). Then you'll know which you prefer from now until eternity. Pagids are great pads, but I do love my PFCs. Brand new set of 08s ready for abuse this weekend. If you don't like the PFCs, then you'll go back to Pagids and all is well. PFCs are usually cheaper than Pagids, but maybe I'm not looking at the right places to buy.

Great write up by the way! Good stuff in there.

Hey Sleeper519,

I believe we spoke briefly; I was in a silver 4 door parked next to you guys.
Interesting observation on the pads. I tried PF01s (sprints) and then PF06s and also PF08s. STs appear more like the 01s. In my case, I went through TWO freaking sets of fronts in one weekend (if I really push it).

The 08s surprisingly lasted me half set for 3 days at Mid Ohio. I finished the remaining 50% half day friday. Installed a new set of 08s friday after lunch and they were gone by Sunday at Road Atlanta. Same observation as yours re: pedal feel. Took me a while getting used to coming from 01s (ran it in my previous race cars as well); you really have to get on them 80% and wait as its linear.

Admranger, we meet again (thanks for all the help in the past re: I Stock race car). While the 08s may last a bit longer, from what I have heard the Pagid Yellows last a whole bit longer so it seems. How was your observation this past weekend? How long do the stock rotors (front) last you? (8 track days here before the cracks get through the circumference).

Regards,

Lutfy

[klammer]

Great review and info in here I've found the pagids to be a bit pricey for me now and have moved to Carbotechs (half the cost, same wear rate) and couldn't even consider the PFC's as I would have been a special order and they were almost $1k for a set of fronts As it is, I get the Carbotechs for around $300 (fronts) and can get anywhere from around 5-7 events too. This car does NOT want to go through rear pads though, think I'm on about a 3:1 ratio as it relates to front/rear wear rates. I did like the pagids more, but not enough for price diff.
This is all as it relates to my BBK.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Admranger, we meet again (thanks for all the help in the past re: I Stock race car).

Yeah, you really shouldn't admit knowing me in public. Ruins your image and alerts Homeland Security. Something about associating with known nutjobs(like me) or something like that...

Originally Posted by lutfy

While the 08s may last a bit longer, from what I have heard the Pagid Yellows last a whole bit longer so it seems. How was your observation this past weekend? How long do the stock rotors (front) last you? (8 track days here before the cracks get through the circumference).

I'm embarrassed to admit it, but this was only my 2nd and 3rd track day with the car. I really didn't run that often and the first track session I was learning the track and watching my beginner classroom students run. I ran that session in 3rd gear and barely touched the brake pedal. Remember that other than the PFC pads, the car is bone stock and turned 10k miles on the trip. The stock PS2s are pretty well shot now but I have some RE11s on the way. I absolutely *hated* the PS2s out on the track as they didn't communicate anything to me about their grip level. I've used the RE11s on my wife's 2002 M3 and they do a much better job of communicating where you are on their grip curve. PS2s had a ton of grip, but then it was gone with no warning (no squealing or howling or any sound until it was too late). Not confidence inspiring...

The car is still sitting on the lift side of the garage waiting for me to swap the pads out so I have no idea on wear. My observations of the performance of the 08 is that it has a higher initial torque or bite than the 06 and it is really easy to modulate. The 06 doesn't have this same bite and it doesn't inspire the same confidence level that the 08 does. Either compound is still fine as an HPDE pad.

Interesting on the life of the Pagids. I knew they were good, but I haven't ever tried them. Might have to in the future.

[ortho281]

OP, Great review and lots of good responses! I'm installing the ST BBK tomorrow and also bought a set of SR34 for the track based on Bigjae's review. I'm currently using PFC06's with stock calipers and they refuse to wear out. I'm hoping using SR34's in both front and rear will result in them lasting longer than 4 days. If not, I may be switching to the SR33's next time around.

[AMPowerJ]

I just ordered a full set of SR33's for my ST's. Hitting CMP on June 1st which is very hard on brakes so I'll see how they hold up.

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by AMPowerJ

I just ordered a full set of SR33's for my ST's. Hitting CMP on June 1st which is very hard on brakes so I'll see how they hold up.

Good choice, let us know how they perform.

[bigjae1976]

Great review. The feel is so subjective. I was raised on PF01s so I like pads that feel like that. Others were raised on the yellows...they like them. For me, I'm carrying significantly more speed through the turns with the SR34s but I think driving style has a lot to do with it. I like to get a good amount of torque up front...rarely am I threshold braking.

The thing I didn't like about the pagids is you MUST bed them in and require more care. Its not really necessary with the Stoptech pads...kind of idiot proof. I like that.

But...the Pagids are actually "cheaper" since they do seem to last forever. I also like that.

What if I put a pagid pad on the inside and an SR34 pad on the outside? Best of both worlds!

[jphughan]

Subscribed! Those of you running the new StopTech race pads, please definitely come back and post impressions, especially as they compare to the PFC08s if you also have experience with those. I just ordered an ST60 front BBK and hope to go with one of their compounds or PFC08s. The 08s are significantly more expensive, but if they last longer then I can justify it. Based on the OP seeing >50% wear rate after 2 days on SR34s, given their ~$360 price tag those may not make sense for me.

Is there any reason nobody is looking at the SR32s? On StopTech's site, the SR33 seems to be recommended for rear applications, whereas the SR32s claim to have similar friction to the SR34 and are intended for medium- to high-horsepower applications, which would seemingly make them appropriate for those who weren't happy with the SR34 in terms of feel and/or wear rate.

[bigjae1976]

I don't know. Stoptech's description is about as straight forward as a politician. I honestly just picked one because it sounded good. Didn't really care...got a good deal on them. Like them...will keep using them.

There's too much going on in life to worry about brake pad compounds .

[bigjae1976]

Just went through my first set of SR34s. They lasted 3 days plus 8 30 min sessions at Road America. I was beating them down pretty good. All things considered...I'm happy with the wear rate. Could always be better but could be much worse.

I got a little grinding right at the end. I checked my rotors...rotors are nice and smooth, no grooves. I see some long silver things in the lining. I don't see any wear on the edges of the backing plate...I wonder if the last 2-3mm are not usable or some sort of wear indicator?