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09-02-2009, 11:11 PM | #1 |
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Tune and Dealer Warranty
Does anybody here have a tune to their car, had to go in for service (either related to drive train components or other issues such as broken AC, broken power adjustment in seat, etc.) and somehow the dealer discovered you had a tune, blamed the issues with your car on the tune, then denied to repair under warranty?
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09-02-2009, 11:23 PM | #2 |
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I've read about this concern previously, and I read in a few of the responses that the dealer would have to prove that you reflashed your M3......And basically the only way for them do that would be to ship your ECU to BMW Germany I believe.
They most likely would not be able to tell that you got a software upgrade though. If a M3 owner like me would come in to the service center with a full catless exhaust, I'd assume they would be very suspicious about my M3. If you're really concerned about your warranty issue, the smartest advice I could give to you would be to go with the Dinan software at one of the dealerships. |
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09-02-2009, 11:30 PM | #3 |
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I havent heard of this happening, however it really is up to the tech. They basically have the right to decline repairs on a car with aftermarket mods and can flag the car. However if u just bring it in for those things and u have a re-flash, it will be pretty hard to detect a u have a tune on the car. So the worst thing that can happen is they program ur car and u lose ur tune. But thats an easy fix, just get it re-flashed again.
Just make sure its not ur tune causing the problem for sure before u take it in. Because if they cant fix it and the car is doing weird stuff, then they will investigate more and could find out ur flashed. Then u pay for the consequences and say ba bye to warranty.
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09-02-2009, 11:53 PM | #4 |
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I doubt that the only way a tune can be detected is by sending the ECU to Germany. I'm sure the local dealers have some way of immediately telling whether the car has been tuned. Afterall, our cars are basically computers running on wheels. And because there is so much electric data stored in our cars, the dealer should be able to find it. Just look at all the data the SA can get just with your key FOB!
As far as the dealer must prove that your mod caused the damage is from the Magnuson Moss Act. But if the dealer suspects or knows you have a mod, the dealer can decline to repair under warranty and send you home. If you want the repair under warranty at this point, you'll need to file a lawsuit To get the court, which is a huge hassle. |
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09-03-2009, 12:32 AM | #5 |
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Never heard of this happening with an ECU flash. The dealer can not see the code in the file. They can solely overwrite it.
Now if you have a piggyback unit installed, that's a different story. Just like the MSD81 ECU on the 335's that BMW designed to combat piggyback control units. The car would through a shadow code that indicated that the car had been modified. However, with our flashes no such thing will happen. The tune is completely transparent to the dealership.
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09-03-2009, 01:04 AM | #6 | |
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09-03-2009, 11:25 AM | #7 | |
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09-03-2009, 04:12 PM | #8 | |
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09-03-2009, 04:43 PM | #9 |
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So.. they can read piggy back but not flash?
Am I understanding correctly? My buddy with 335i (who doesn't even have any piggyback- he only has dual cone intake and chopped muffler) went to dealership and they said, he's error codes shows that he has aftermarket tune and tried to avoid his remaining warranty. He even needed to get those codes in print and send it to BMW.
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09-03-2009, 05:24 PM | #10 | |
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Clearly, if your friend didn't have any software modification, the dealer was just guessing, which lends further support to everyone's assertions that the dealers can't detect the presence of a flash one way or another.
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09-03-2009, 06:44 PM | #11 | |
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09-03-2009, 07:52 PM | #13 | |
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335s are a little different because of the MSD81 shadow code fields. |
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09-03-2009, 08:21 PM | #14 | |||
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Software flashes leave no visual tells that anything has been tampered with and can be reflashed back to stock at any time. While GIAC is to be on the aggressive side, it's safe enough to push your M3 where it shouldn't be. Dealers have specific shadow codes to detect these types of tunes, it's a cat and mouse game for the piggybacks, their time may be up soon as far as the new generation of DMEs are coming in soon. Yes, we can detect the "hidden" codes the dealers look for as well. However, Piggybacks are a different story and do not apply at all to the M3. Dealers are people too. You would be surprised how far just remembering their first name or simple kindness goes. Try to pull a fast one - and you just might be out of luck. Quote:
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09-03-2009, 08:53 PM | #15 |
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Totally agree. I've always had the best service when I'm up front with the dealer. In my expeience, as long as you're up front with them, they will try to help you out as much as possible. It's when you try to lie and hide stuff that they just send you packing to resolve your problems on your own. Good relationships in the car industry (or any industry) go a long way.
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09-03-2009, 09:07 PM | #16 |
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09-03-2009, 09:11 PM | #17 |
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In my last car I told the dealer about every mod I had including software tunes. Never had a problem. I don't see what the issue would be with telling them. I something actually did break because of it, I wouldn't expect the dealer to eat the cost on that.
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09-03-2009, 09:36 PM | #18 |
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So you're one of the honest ones . This thread seems to be about how to avoid dealer knowing car is tuned in case of trouble, which is stupid IMO. A good tech knows when something doesn't add up. Proving it is not a problem after that. Then owner would have to prove tune didn't cause the problem; good luck with that. A tune is a risk I'll never take with such an expensive and complicated engine, but if I did, I'd never try to hide that either. Take care.
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09-03-2009, 09:52 PM | #19 | |
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Nobody benefits when the tech has to chase down a problem for hours on end because he doesn't have the whole picture. The dealer will be much less understanding when they have to pry the information out of you after a tech or two has wasted hours on your car. Besides, it's a good policy in life to be straightforward anyway. The tunes offered by the major tuners here really aren't a problematic modification on the M3 -- they really don't push the envelope.
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09-04-2009, 02:44 PM | #20 | |
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