ESS VT2-650 Engine Blowout/Bearing Failure at 20k miles

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by shadye90

I just spoke to the wizard behind the curtain and he says "approved!" lol

The wizard being OP?


So if i'm understanding correctly, he's getting covered through warranty?


That's kinda BS if you ask me, if you can afford to mod the car... you should be able to pay for the repairs. Not bitch out.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

7 page thread and not one word from any SC company.

although shops making professional views would be great. There really nothing for them to say failures happen, OEM or modified.

[shadye90]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

The wizard being OP?


So if i'm understanding correctly, he's getting covered through warranty?


That's kinda BS if you ask me, if you can afford to mod the car... you should be able to pay for the repairs. Not bitch out.

Sorry for any confusion but i was only making a joke. Hopefully everything works out ok for the OP

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

What would they say we don't already know?

Nothing, but acknowledgment would actually increase credibility in my eyes.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

He was joking, in any case, I don't think anybody made a warranty claim. Don't get your panties in a bunch...

My panties are ok. I did state in my prior post that I wasn't sure if i understood correctly. And i didn't.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

The wizard being OP?


So if i'm understanding correctly, he's getting covered through warranty?


That's kinda BS if you ask me, if you can afford to mod the car... you should be able to pay for the repairs. Not bitch out.

If the OP was the wizard, He probably would've magically fixed his engine already.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

What acknowledgment? I also don't understand the 'increase credibility' comment?

Rod bearing failures can happen to NA cars, and if you have an engine with an underlying problem supercharging it will speed (there is the pun again) things up, and increase the chance of failure by adding a lot more stress to the motor.

We all know the risks, and if you look at the available data (this site is only a small sample of course, but not when it comes to SC owners), we've seen that these kits are pretty reliable.

But if shit goes wrong, you are out of luck, the steep cost to play. But all things considered we see very few supercharged M3's with that problem. But yeah, the warranty is out the window.

But I don't know what any SC company has to acknowledge here? No secrets here, we all know the risks.

I am willing to bet that a number of people assume that if a particular kit is marketed, then it has been tested for safety. I am also willing to bet that many people don't know about inherent weaknesses in the stock motor that may put the motor at increase risk when boosted. I do think there are a number of people who get into this level of tuning without understanding all the implications.

I recall once a number of years ago, when I was involved in a civil legal issue. My attorney cautioned me about the potential economic costs of my actions with regards to his own legal fees, and how they may escalate. I appreciated his transparency on this issue.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I am willing to bet that a number of people assume that if a particular kit is marketed, then it has been tested for safety. I am also willing to bet that many people don't know about inherent weaknesses in the stock motor that may put the motor at increase risk when boosted. I do think there are a number of people who get into this level of tuning without understanding all the implications.

I recall once a number of years ago, when I was involved in a civil legal issue. My attorney cautioned me about the potential economic costs of my actions with regards to his own legal fees, and how they may escalate. I appreciated his transparency on this issue.

In that respect would a supercharger provider also be morally required to warn you that at increased speeds tires generate more heat and this can lead to failure and loss of control?

See what I'm getting at?

[chris s]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I agree that some people are unaware of the risks, but I can guarantee you that the folks on this forum know the risks.

Probably a tiny fraction of folks who mod their cars to that extend don't do any research - they are probably idiots.

The OP spent enough time on this forum (and probably other message boards) to know the risks. It is a very calculated risks that is actually in your favor, if you break it down to chance and gain.

I was pushing my car with the 4.10 final drive, full exhaust, and charger, and I knew if I had an issue with the diff mount, or rod bearings I'd be f@cked. But these kits are as safe as it gets in regards to strapping on a blower onto a NA designed engine. The ratio of sold kits and blown motors are actually quite incredible.

And again, we are most likely talking about a rod bearing that was faulty to begin with, so most likely the blower didn't "cause this", but "just" expedited the process of failure, which obviously is of little comfort to the OP.

+1...especially the "idiot" part...

ESS has no responsibility here...

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Nothing, but acknowledgment would actually increase credibility in my eyes.

Acknowledgment from BMW would solidify my next car purchase... Not likely to happen.

If the iDrive in my car stops working I'm I too blame a tuner? No right because the problem is not related...

If someone were to supercharge their car and within say 500 miles have engine failure than I'd be on board with blaming said company.

Now if after 60k blown miles an issue does surface well that's wear and no one is to blame.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by exmowner

In that respect would a supercharger provider also be morally required to warn you that at increased speeds tires generate more heat and this can lead to failure and loss of control?

See what I'm getting at?

No, but this is a stretch of reasoning. SC damage to a motor is not. The actual top speed of a supercharged car is probably still within the specs for Z rated tires anyway, so it doesn't matter. However, if you needed a new upgraded clutch, for instance, I would hope that the SC manufacturer would at least advise of this.

[shadye90]

I agree with all the above statements saying that the supercharger company is not the one to blame in this scenario. It is unfortunate that the engine suffered a catastrophic failure and undeniably the supercharger most likely lead to its demise earlier than it would have if it was left naturally aspirated. However I still feel it is the owners due diligence to monitor the engines health regardless of how well engineered the supercharger kit is. For example on all my previous cars that I have added any sort of aftermarket forced induction I always made sure that I had a fuel pressure gauge, wideband o2 sensor, and an air/fuel monitoring gauge just to keep tabs on the engine and even then I proactively check my spark plugs to make sure that the engine was not running lean

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

The iDrive comparison is invalid.

To be fair... the supercharger is not to blame for the faulty rod bearing, but it probably and undeniable played a big role it its failure. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. If you have a potential issue, the blower will multiply the potential problem exponentially; hence the reinforced rod bearings that are now standard on the 650 kits.

So if the 650 kit now comes with reinforced rod bearings, should the SC company pay for the blown motor if they didn't provide them to the OP in the first place?

[Edjay]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

So if the 650 kit now comes with reinforced rod bearings, should the SC company pay for the blown motor if they didn't provide them to the OP in the first place?

No. Because its not their responsibility.

[dmppdx]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Nothing, but acknowledgment would actually increase credibility in my eyes.

They are probably not willing to comment since they are afraid of saying something that could be used against them. I bet that any lawyer would advice them not to say anything.

[dmppdx]

Originally Posted by Edjay

No. Because its not their responsibility.

I agree. If all cars modified with their product failed or a significant number failed, then it would point to a design flaw with the SC and the manufacturer would be liable. If it was just a small number that failed, then failures would be attributed to a manufacturing defect in the particular car, or the drivers driving style or some other facter more than just the installation of the SC.

Most people who say that once you are start modifying a car significantly from how it was designed by the manufacturer, your reliability will almost guaranted to be worse and you are putting yourself at risk of a failure like this and simply by making the decision to do this type of modification you are assuming the risk. If people don't think about these risk or take them seriously, that is not the SC manufacturers fault.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

So if the 650 kit now comes with reinforced rod bearings, should the SC company pay for the blown motor if they didn't provide them to the OP in the first place?

I can tell you do not do any heavy mods. You will learn if you ever do, its very rare to have company warranty engines. Unless its a very big company like Hennessy. Modding is always risky! and the only real warranty is with BMW !

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

we are most likely talking about a rod bearing that was faulty to begin with, so most likely the blower didn't "cause this", but "just" expedited the process of failure,

I'm sorry but its not "most likely" its just a guess...the rod bearing could just as easily have lasted the entire life of engine had it been unmodified.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I can tell you do not do any heavy mods. You will learn if you ever do, its very rare to have company warranty engines. Unless its a very big company like Hennessy. Modding is always risky! and the only real warranty is with BMW !

.....if you only knew!!! Where did I ever say they need to warranty the engine? What I said was that they altered the content of a kit for concerns over reliability. As such, should they make good to the people who may have suffered a loss without this alteration?

[VCMpower]

But Mike they are so nice to look at inside

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Ouch.. Let us know what it is..

Good luck, that doesn't sound good.

I'm torn on replacing my bearings or not. The car never fails to deliver. Hard to justify opening up something perfect.

[VCMpower]

Fill up your fuel tank, change your oil, repeat.

[VCMpower]

It is good you went to a knowlegable tech to have your kit(s) installed but what I do not care for is that most(from what I have seen) advertise there kits to be able to be installed in your driveway or garage at home. DIY kits. DO NOT AGREE for the most part. If a company truly should be held liable for any reason then the kit should be installed be a supporting dealer.

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

We don't know (well, I don't) what instructions come with the 650 kit regarding the installation. They give you tons of specific instructions regarding hardware and how to install it that is not covered on the site. The techs that installed my two kits had very particular instructions, and some of it regarding the existing OEM hardware.

And I had a list of items I had to do in order to maintain it. (I'm not saying Mark didn't do that, I'm just pointing out that these kind of mods require special attention)

Same goes for other mods, Dinan had a list of suggestions and instructions that weren't listed on their website for example, especially for the 4:10 final drive in my case.

Also, I talked to many other posters here on this forum who wanted to go with a bigger blower (600+) and were advised against this due to concerns of earlier M3 builds. So they are very upfront, and they explain the risks very carefully.