Review: Ground Control street plates (short)

SlamMan · 03-01-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

There's 3 main threaded vertical bolts---the one that slides under a lower plate is merely tack welded with one small bead of metal. Its bolt head is shaved off so it can slide out to give more camber. This is the weak link and is an obvious design flaw. It snaps off with a fraction of the torque spec that is needed to seat it. Others on this forum have reported this problem as well.

Unfortunately there are not many other options out there for E92 M3.

Mine have the bolt heads on them. Just for clarification, is the bold head on yours shaved off during production or is the bolt head breaking off the problem? Any chance you can post a pic?

If that one bracket is the problem, you could probably use different bolts and thick washers in it's place. It doesn't look like that bracket serves any function other than to keep the three bolts together unless I'm missing something.

bigjae1976 · 03-01-2012, 05:25 PM

AFAIK, there are 2 versions of the plates. One that is the same height as OEM and one which is similar to the Dinan Stage 1 front top mounts that increase the suspension travel. So it has a shorter overall height (not ride height) than the regular GC camber plate.

Which one do you have?

SlamMan · 03-01-2012, 05:36 PM

Hmmm, I guess I probably have the one that's the same as OEM. They didn't mention 2 versions when I called and ordered. I'd definitely like to see pics of the other version now.

quads · 03-01-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I wonder how many people have had this issue...this is the first I've seen.

Mine's been fine since install. Perhaps bolts were overtorqued?

SlamMan · 03-01-2012, 06:14 PM

I could see that happening if the installer wasn't paying attention. The plate says 18ft/lb on it which is relatively light.

bigjae1976 · 03-01-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlamMan

Hmmm, I guess I probably have the one that's the same as OEM. They didn't mention 2 versions when I called and ordered. I'd definitely like to see pics of the other version now.

Check out this thread for more info...

Sleeper519 · 03-02-2012, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

Mine's been fine since install. Perhaps bolts were overtorqued?

No way. The bolts are supposedly tested at 50 ft-lbs, and are specced for 18 ft-lbs. My second plate broke at 17. The third one was torqued to a very cautious 17 but broke while driving around the block.

The plate I have (had) supposedly maintains the OEM stack and ride height. If you look at the pic by Bigjae above, the 2 bolts that you can see have bolt heads. The one you can't see has the head shaved off (since it is the one that slides under the lower plate--the other 2 only need to move around the side of the plate). What is left is a headless bolt seated in a very thin plate with a wimpy tack weld (not Tig?) to hold it in place.

I've got plenty of pix to show soon, I'm still talking to GC though right now...

This has been such an incredible time hassle not to mention disappointment and $$$, and I'm so over it.

JM3 · 03-02-2012, 06:49 PM

GC should have a good idea of the reasons for isolated failures by Monday, we are trying to force the parts to break in every manner that we can think of.

Within a half hour of hearing about this, we started breaking bolts while remeasuring the force needed.

We had already done this in prototyping, but when a customer has a problem, we have a "failure analysis policy" to revisit everything, starting with retesting from the beginning.

You will notice that on many of the failures, the bracket had been tightened until it bent, and THEN the stud broke. However, there are also inconsistencies in the failures that could be the technique, material, or even in measurement.

For recreational reading in the principles of measurement:

Heisenberg argues that every measurement destroys part of our knowledge of the system that was obtained by previous measurements.

If you have questions about these failures, and what is being done, please call or email Jay at GC.

Just a quick pic of testing to failure.

cpe9x test2 by Ground Control Systems, on Flickr

bigjae1976 · 03-02-2012, 08:05 PM

So was this an installer error?

roycemek · 03-03-2012, 01:08 PM

I know this may sound like an obvious question but what are the symptoms or how did you know the bolt broke?

I guess the reason I ask is because ever since installing the GC hybrid plates I've had increased NHV's, which I understand and can accept. What I'm a bit disappointed in is that in addition to the additional noise I also get a really abrupt and loud jar when the suspension unloads abruptly. I'm not talking about getting air under the wheel abrupt but just on a rolling bump where the suspension unloads. This happens for me at both normal freeway speeds and at speeds as low as 15mph.

Is it easy to tell with everything assembled if a bolt is broken or do you have to disassemble everything in order to diagnose?

Thanks,
Royce M

M3SQRD · 03-03-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roycemek

I know this may sound like an obvious question but what are the symptoms or how did you know the bolt broke?

I guess the reason I ask is because ever since installing the GC hybrid plates I've had increased NHV's, which I understand and can accept. What I'm a bit disappointed in is that in addition to the additional noise I also get a really abrupt and loud jar when the suspension unloads abruptly. I'm not talking about getting air under the wheel abrupt but just on a rolling bump where the suspension unloads. This happens for me at both normal freeway speeds and at speeds as low as 15mph.

Is it easy to tell with everything assembled if a bolt is broken or do you have to disassemble everything in order to diagnose?

Thanks,
Royce M

An easy way to check is to set your torque wrench to the correct torque value and then retorque the strut mount nuts. If the torque wrench "clicks" you are good; if the nut/threads spin while trying to apply torque then a screw/weld has most likely failed.

roycemek · 03-03-2012, 01:27 PM

Last I checked in that same way I didn't notice any loose bolts on any of the three bolts. What had me wondering was in the pics posted above it shows one of the plates broken and not the bolt coming free from the weld.

In reading more through the thread I think someone mentioned that of the three bolts one of the heads are ground down. I'm wondering if the GC Hybrid plates are different. I'm looking at some pics of mine and one done by another poster and none of the heads are ground down? Am I missing something? Do the street plates use a different under mount plate?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...control+camber

Also one other question I'm curious about is where on the camber plates does it say the torque spec is 18ft/lb? Is it engraved somewhere?

Thanks,
Royce M

STALKER · 03-03-2012, 01:51 PM

Royce,
Says it right in the top to one side I believe.

SlamMan · 03-03-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

Royce,
Says it right in the top to one side I believe.

That's where it's engraved on both models I've used. On top of the thick grey plate near the degree markings.

Sleeper519 · 03-05-2012, 09:08 AM

Roycemek

Yes, the plates shown in that old thread are a different type/design. Those bolts all have heads. GC (JM3?) could prob explain it better than I can.

Kunman · 07-14-2014, 05:07 PM

what is the max adjustment for GC street plates? 3.5 degrees?

03-01-2012, 05:25 PM	#24
bigjae1976 Major General 1570 Rep 8,075 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [4.50] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [5.25] 2013 BMW 328i [5.00]	AFAIK, there are 2 versions of the plates. One that is the same height as OEM and one which is similar to the Dinan Stage 1 front top mounts that increase the suspension travel. So it has a shorter overall height (not ride height) than the regular GC camber plate. Which one do you have? __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
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03-01-2012, 05:36 PM	#25
SlamMan Captain 148 Rep 800 Posts Drives: ED 5/19/2010, Interlagos E90 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, 303 iTrader: (1)	Hmmm, I guess I probably have the one that's the same as OEM. They didn't mention 2 versions when I called and ordered. I'd definitely like to see pics of the other version now. __________________ I play real sports. Not tryin' to be the best at exercising. - Kenny Powers
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03-01-2012, 06:14 PM	#27
SlamMan Captain 148 Rep 800 Posts Drives: ED 5/19/2010, Interlagos E90 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, 303 iTrader: (1)	I could see that happening if the installer wasn't paying attention. The plate says 18ft/lb on it which is relatively light. __________________ I play real sports. Not tryin' to be the best at exercising. - Kenny Powers
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03-02-2012, 06:49 PM	#30
JM3 1 Rep 76 Posts Drives: e46 m3 and others Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Nor Cal iTrader: (0)	GC should have a good idea of the reasons for isolated failures by Monday, we are trying to force the parts to break in every manner that we can think of. Within a half hour of hearing about this, we started breaking bolts while remeasuring the force needed. We had already done this in prototyping, but when a customer has a problem, we have a "failure analysis policy" to revisit everything, starting with retesting from the beginning. You will notice that on many of the failures, the bracket had been tightened until it bent, and THEN the stud broke. However, there are also inconsistencies in the failures that could be the technique, material, or even in measurement. For recreational reading in the principles of measurement: Heisenberg argues that every measurement destroys part of our knowledge of the system that was obtained by previous measurements. If you have questions about these failures, and what is being done, please call or email Jay at GC. Just a quick pic of testing to failure. cpe9x test2 by Ground Control Systems, on Flickr Last edited by JM3; 03-02-2012 at 07:01 PM..
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03-02-2012, 08:05 PM	#31
bigjae1976 Major General 1570 Rep 8,075 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [4.50] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [5.25] 2013 BMW 328i [5.00]	So was this an installer error? __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
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03-03-2012, 01:08 PM	#32
roycemek Second Lieutenant 22 Rep 213 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Burbank iTrader: (4)	I know this may sound like an obvious question but what are the symptoms or how did you know the bolt broke? I guess the reason I ask is because ever since installing the GC hybrid plates I've had increased NHV's, which I understand and can accept. What I'm a bit disappointed in is that in addition to the additional noise I also get a really abrupt and loud jar when the suspension unloads abruptly. I'm not talking about getting air under the wheel abrupt but just on a rolling bump where the suspension unloads. This happens for me at both normal freeway speeds and at speeds as low as 15mph. Is it easy to tell with everything assembled if a bolt is broken or do you have to disassemble everything in order to diagnose? Thanks, Royce M
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03-03-2012, 01:27 PM	#34
roycemek Second Lieutenant 22 Rep 213 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Burbank iTrader: (4)	Last I checked in that same way I didn't notice any loose bolts on any of the three bolts. What had me wondering was in the pics posted above it shows one of the plates broken and not the bolt coming free from the weld. In reading more through the thread I think someone mentioned that of the three bolts one of the heads are ground down. I'm wondering if the GC Hybrid plates are different. I'm looking at some pics of mine and one done by another poster and none of the heads are ground down? Am I missing something? Do the street plates use a different under mount plate? http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...control+camber Also one other question I'm curious about is where on the camber plates does it say the torque spec is 18ft/lb? Is it engraved somewhere? Thanks, Royce M
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03-03-2012, 01:51 PM	#35
STALKER Brigadier General 169 Rep 3,831 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3, Golf R Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (5)	Royce, Says it right in the top to one side I believe. __________________
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03-05-2012, 09:08 AM	#37
Sleeper519 Captain 68 Rep 869 Posts Drives: 08 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	Roycemek Yes, the plates shown in that old thread are a different type/design. Those bolts all have heads. GC (JM3?) could prob explain it better than I can. __________________ 2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.70 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20
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07-14-2014, 05:07 PM	#38
Kunman First Lieutenant 26 Rep 328 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	what is the max adjustment for GC street plates? 3.5 degrees? Last edited by Kunman; 07-14-2014 at 05:21 PM..
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