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08-22-2011, 11:51 AM | #23 | |
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08-22-2011, 02:08 PM | #24 |
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my temp seems to be running hotter with the tune and the tach doesnt seem to wait as long to go to full rpms for the rev limit during initial warm up?
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08-22-2011, 02:40 PM | #25 |
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Yeah, I dunno. That is sort of my question.... Is there an adaptation period? How long is it? etc, etc. I'm just curious as I have heard there was a period of adaptation. I was hoping Paul, et al, would chime in with some "knowledge". I always wondered how long it takes, if any, to adapt to a new tune.
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08-22-2011, 03:26 PM | #26 | |
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The first thing we learn and have educated the public about is that dyno's are to be used as a comparison tool ONLY. Not as a tool to give definitive HP. The test from the above showed the evolve tuned car to be only marginally behind a car with pretty much everything thrown at it and we are also talking about a car which was running on 91 octane vs a Dinan car which was running 93. The fuel is such an important factor here and yet even then the differences are alot smaller than they should be. |
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08-22-2011, 03:31 PM | #27 |
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Just to let everyone know that I am working with John now to see how we can get the iPhone app to give positive results with so many other variables at play at the same time.
Not going to be easy but let's see how it goes. I will be giving him some basic guidelines and techniques to make sure the inlet temperatures are nice and low before each test as this has a profound effect on results aswell as tyres temperatures and many other factors which we can discuss. |
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08-22-2011, 03:40 PM | #28 | |
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This was my car. I was indeed disappointed with the results but I do not have a stock dyno so all I really went by was what I had read on the forums about what the car dynos stock. Obviously this isn't the best way to gauge how much hp/tq the car had gained but I had nothing else to go on. Going into the dyno I was hoping for 360whp..
Maybe it was the dyno machine..I don't know..but the numbers seemed low to me. I'd love to get a chance to dyno the car again. My friend bought the car from me and it is basically stock now with just the filter and rpi scoops. Turner's website claims about 40whp with the CAT delete, test pipes, and their tune. I was hoping to get the 40whp with my mods..wishful thinking maybe? Quote:
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08-22-2011, 03:48 PM | #29 |
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a) Dyno's are comparison tools for before and after. Absolutely.
b) 0-60 pulls are ok but to be honest. To much variables here. Traction control. Underhood heat, ... What I and many of my friends always did. Get on the highway or autobahn. It's far more accurate to test that in a range where not all happens within milliseconds. If a mod or tune or whatever really gains performance. Do several pulls. For example 3rd gear - starting at 30mph and floor it till red line. Stop the time or use an iPhone app or something similar. Do that with 4th gear several times, too and take the avarage between all 3rd and 4th gear pulls. Leave the car rollin at +/- 50mph for a minute or so between the pulls to get the temperature out of the engine bay. If the new tune really helps you will see it more obvious as here we're talking about loooong pulls were it's all about torque and hp and not only quick shots where a lot is happening at the traction level. just my2cents...
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08-22-2011, 03:51 PM | #30 | |
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I suggest everyone reads up on correction factors which can and do have a massive effect on dyno results. I can write about this stuff all day long. The point is this - your car did incredibly well against another M3 with more upgrades and way better fuel. That's all that matters. If we want to go into more depth we can. For example, we can look at the AFR's and ignition timing achieved. If an engine achieves the optimal ignition timing, cam angles and AFR it is performing as best as it can. At this point what power goes to the wheels are irrelevant. The community as a whole needs to be a little more intelligent and stop thinking 1 dimensionally. That dimension being 'PEAK RWHP'. |
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08-22-2011, 03:53 PM | #31 | |
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Just to add to that, not only are you allowing under bonnet temperatures to fall but also intake air temperatures which are vital for achieving optimal ignition and AFR. |
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08-22-2011, 04:08 PM | #32 | |
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Lets face it PEAK HP is what sells the product to a majority of the customers out there including myself. I'm not going to lie and pretend that I bought the test pipes and tune and thought about anything other that how much HP I would gain.
Yes, the tune made the car smoother, yes it was easy to load the files, and yes the communication by the guys at Evolve was excellent. But, I purchased my mods and expected certain numbers to show up on the dyno and it didn't. If anything I suspected that the dyno was a heartbreaker since both my car and the Dinan car read "low". I was happy that the car did well compared to the Dinan M3 which gave me some sense of satisfaction. EDIT: the reason why I felt that the numbers weren't as high as it should have been was because the member who actually set up the dyno, dyno'ed his car previously at the same shop we went to with only an exhaust and apparantly dyno'ed right around the same nunbers that my car achieved. So yes that worried me a bit since I have "more" mods than he had at the time of his dyno. Quote:
Last edited by Hollywood Hogan; 08-22-2011 at 04:14 PM.. |
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08-22-2011, 04:24 PM | #33 | |
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Some take advantage of it, others don't. You know I can change the wheels on a car and it makes a completely different HP reading? The shape of the graph will not change, nor will the ignition or AFR if tested consistently but you get more power! Just this above statement should make everyone realise........ Use the damn machine the way it was intended and everyone remains happy. Start asking it do to something it cannot and you end up in the massive confused state the BMW community remains in. |
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08-22-2011, 05:15 PM | #34 |
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UPDATE:
I've been working with Sal and loaded another tune today that Sal feels confident is the right tune. I took the car out and ran about 10 miles for the computer to get a bit adjusted. I know I should drive more but I wanted to get a test run in today and don't have more time. It is about 10 degrees hotter today than when I last did my runs so I'm expecting the numbers to be a bit lower. using LC The 0-100 13.26 sec Better than the previous baseline numbers. I will do more runs tomorrow and will post quality results. The butt dyno felt the shifts harder... I'm optimistic that this tune will do what we are all hoping a tune will do for our cars... John |
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08-22-2011, 05:34 PM | #35 |
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Given the +10 Deg temps that's very good.
Just to also answer some comments from page 1 - We do not alter the throttle maps AT ALL anymore. This was only done on demand for some people. Not a great fan of throttle mapping! |
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08-22-2011, 06:08 PM | #36 | |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
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08-22-2011, 11:14 PM | #37 | |
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Ok, dude, seriously? 1. Wrong. This has been proven time and time again. 2. Wrong again. Altitude. The fact that Sal was willing to sit down and work with a customer using an iPhone accelerometer app to measure power increases with a non repeatable and very in-exact measurement says that Evolve really cares and does right by people. |
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08-22-2011, 11:24 PM | #38 |
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this has been my experience so far. he has went out of his way to help with anything i have needed.
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08-23-2011, 01:08 AM | #39 | |
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08-23-2011, 01:16 AM | #40 | |
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08-23-2011, 01:27 AM | #41 | |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
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It's not uncommon for tunes to need some work at altitude. Cobb, for example, had issues with their initial STi tunes at altitude. But we don't even know what Sal adjusted and you are ready to declare the last 40 years of ECU tuning a fraud. Your attitude sucks. Try talking to people as if they're standing in front of you. |
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08-23-2011, 01:32 AM | #42 | |
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What is the difference between 2 tunes you sent to OP? What have you changed since the car remains unchanged? |
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08-23-2011, 08:07 AM | #43 |
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08-23-2011, 08:11 AM | #44 | |
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Adaption is real and always has been. What you are talking about is short term adaption. Long term adaptive values have a profound effect on variables such as fuel and ignition. Sometimes it does take a few miles for the new ignition targets to be reached. When we are developing we reset all adaptions. Sometimes if we have a car which has very negative long terms adaptions for knock nothing will happen with a tune for quite some time. There will be cases where some cars gain more power than others with the same tune. It's all down to adaptive values and what's stored in the ECU rather than the short term instant processing you refer to. If you'd like to confirm any of the above just get a decent scan tool and look into the very large adaption section of the MSS60. Much head scratching will follow..... |
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