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03-26-2008, 07:46 AM | #1123 |
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Just a reminder for those that are not reading the entire thread ... Husker
is just a small town store that is owned by VTAIG (Cecil & Larry Van Tuyl). VTAIG is among the largest (~$6B), privately owned dealership groups (~60 dealerships), operating primarily in KS, NE, TX & AZ. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...ry+van+tuyl%22 |
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03-26-2008, 08:10 AM | #1124 | |
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Sounds like more BS. Don't conceded anything to them. The auction was you pay $60k you get the M3. All this other crap they are trying to get you to do has no bearing on the transaction. Looks like we need to keep this campaign going. Nothing seems to be resolved.
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03-26-2008, 08:18 AM | #1125 |
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Amen. Have you guys noticed that this thread now has well over half a million views? I sure hope Husker Auto has.
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03-26-2008, 08:18 AM | #1126 | |
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above MSRP. By opening bids below MSRP, Huckster was hoping to grab attention and ignite a biddging war. It was a gamble. When it didn't go as planned, they hoped that Ken would simply go away without creating too much of a fuss. Boy did they lose that gamble. Speaking of gambling: VTAIG is apparently gambling (again) that their high-rolling, BMW buying customers that live in Lincoln remain unaware. I'm guessing that they've already lost at least $6K in business as a direct result of their actions. VTAIG is gambling that this cancer doesn't spread to the other cities where they operate. They own ~60 dealerships. This is a relatively safe bet ... although a couple of motivated netizens in other VTAIG cities could certainly create unwelcome attention. VTAIG is gambling that a US Attorney, DA or AG won't notice. That strikes me as a VERY risky bet in an election year. A $6B scalp would make quite a trophy. If a single phone call is made from any of these investigators, VTAIG will begin writing really big checks to an army of attorneys. The risk to VTAIG is real: Fraud, Deceptive Trade, Wire Fraud, RICO ... ad. naseum. I cannot imagine that Fil has managed to hide this fiasco from Cecil & Larry Van Tuyl. I would love to know more about the culture of VTAIG. Cecil mentioned in one interview that you succeed by hiring people smarter than yourself. Very true. But you also have to listen to them. I am beginning to wonder, have Cecil and Larry have surrounded themselves with a Nod Squad? Last edited by rainsux; 03-26-2008 at 08:56 AM.. |
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03-26-2008, 08:24 AM | #1127 |
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I passed this on to my CRX club.
Much support to you man!
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03-26-2008, 08:51 AM | #1128 | |
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Auto dealers are predatory and opportunistic. Now, I don't begrudge a dealership with a shiny new M3 sitting on the lot putting a $90K price tag on it. If they can find a sucker willing to pay that much, that's market forces at work. Supply and demand. Husker's scam is a well known selling technique. Announce an auction for a product at an amazing price and get a lot of buzz going. Then the bidding starts and, in Husker's case, you hope some SoCal or NYC buyers who can't get a car for months see it and start a bidding war. In this case it backfired. I don't know if the internet sales dude fell asleep at the wheel or what. But they had PLENTY of time to catch the error of not setting a reserve and they didn't do it. What boggles my mind is that the dealer, and the dealer's mothership still haven't grasped how much the bad press could potentially cost them. The best way to handle this mess, from a PR perspective, is to invite Dooma to NB, invite the press to the dealership and have a big press event handing over the keys to the "Best Priced M3 in the World." Everyone goes away happy, including Husker who gets tens of thousands of dollars worth of free POSITIVE press. Someone said it earlier, I think testosterone has taken over and it's turned into a case of "I can't back down, I have to prove my dick is biggest" on the dealer's part. |
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03-26-2008, 09:03 AM | #1129 |
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This is definitely becoming one of the most viral stories of the year, after reading through the (at the time) 40 pages of the thread, it was also blogged about over at www.motortopia.com.
I live in Lincoln, and I do not have any first-hand experience with the current incarnation of Husker Auto Group. However, its prior incarnations, when it was "Park Place" and before that "Misle", had horrible reputations around here. It seems almost everyone you talk to in the area had horror stories about Misle and Park Place. Definite shady dealings going on in those days. Supposedly, when they moved to their new (current) location and became Husker Auto Group, they cleaned up their act. But with this current situation, I'm not so sure. The interesting thing, I stopped by their showroom on Saturday, before I had heard about this, to check out the new 1-series in their showroom, and I saw this very M3 sedan on the showroom floor. I hope everything works out okay for dooma350! |
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03-26-2008, 09:33 AM | #1130 |
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I culled the KANSAS incorporation website. These
businesses are listed with either "Van Tuyl" or "Robert J. Holcomb" as the registered agent: SUPERIOR HYUNDAI, INC. V. T. TITLE CO. VAN CAR & TRUCK LEASING, INC. VAN CHEVROLET CO., INC. VAN TOYOTA, INC. VANTUYL AUTO CENTER, INC ARTEX AUTOMOTIVE SALES COURTESY CHEVROLET CREST CADILLAC CREST INFINITI CREST OLDSMOBILE IRVTEX AUTOMOTIVE SALES IRVTEX IMPORT SALES JMF JOE MYERS AUTOMOTIVE LUKE MOTOR COMPANY O.B.D., INC. PHALEN MOTORS, INC. RELIABLE CHEVROLET RICHARDSON AUTOMOTIVE SHOWCASE CHEVROLET VAN CHEVROLET VANDERGRIFF CHEVROLET |
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03-26-2008, 09:34 AM | #1131 | |
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03-26-2008, 09:54 AM | #1132 |
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> when somebody provides you with a product and a service they are
> entitled a profit. Entitled? Huh? Businesses sell loss leaders all the time. For 20-years, GM was selling Saturns at a loss. Me thinks we have another teenage troll. > Look at the Jewelry industry for example Okay - let's. It's the family business. > these guys have a 100-200% markup Incorrect. Keystone (mark-up) is typically 300% for fine jewelry. > consumers don't haggle the jeweler! Incorrect again. Many jewelry customers haggle. |
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03-26-2008, 09:57 AM | #1133 | |
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But this particular case is completely different: this was an auction with a catch that did not went thru and because of that fact the seller broke the rules. We can argue another 54 pages about if this was a dealer mistake or not, but the fact remains that on eBay this type of tricky auction is completely normal, frequent and intentional. And this dealer is not an eBay novice... So we should stop for once fooling ourselves that this was something that it wasn't. |
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03-26-2008, 10:03 AM | #1134 | |
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Sure. It would be fascinating to see, however, if the dealership or its management compnany had a blog that managed to get over half a million views and something along the lines of about 95% support for its position. Hell, even the comments on the hometown newspaper site--with the rosy comments from the dealer--are all against. |
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03-26-2008, 10:08 AM | #1135 | |
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PS. Dooma.. We are still rooting for you. Take that car immediately to some place that can check it out to make sure some joker didn't sabotage something vital. |
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03-26-2008, 10:10 AM | #1136 |
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I'm starting to doubt BMW's dealership services. In Hong Kong, the dealership always treated me pretty badly and often gave me the cold shoulder even when I walked in with my parents arriving in a Merc S-class. Then the dealership in Nashville has always been polite face-to-face, but treats me pretty bad on the phone and delays the service of my car from a more typical 2-3 days to 9 days.
Now I understand BMW Lincoln wants to redeem image, but the way to go is not by still aggravating your customer by giving him the impression that the dealership is blaming him for all the mess. With such a poorly setup ebay internet auction, any one could have ended up being the bidder. Clearly, it's the internet manager who screwed up that is the problem. What BMW Lincoln should do is punish or fire (if necessary) the internet manager, honor the deal, apologize sincerely and profusely and throw in additional support i.e. free tinted windows, mods, warranty upgrades, free upgrade from 18" to 19" etc. Of course, from the business side, Lincoln is going to lose out on this deal since their profit margin wasn't high to start off with, but at this point, and with this much publicity, if BMW Lincoln doesn't show some sincerity, it is in their incentives to do damage control and honor the deal. Yeah, dealership might go for litigation and there is a chance for some bizarre reason they get away with it, but how does that make the dealership look? They got it wrong in the first place, didn't want to apologize for mistakes AND then use law and litigation to get out of their mess wrongfully, sure "win hearts" that way... Dooma, I'm not a lawyer nor am I experienced in this matter, but I will be supporting and rooting for you all the way. Get the beast, the M3!!!
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03-26-2008, 10:45 AM | #1138 |
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Yeah... I just wanted to make sure that nobody would take either of our comments and use them as a starting point from which they could run off screaming about how they're trying to damage the car or some such.
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03-26-2008, 10:56 AM | #1139 | |
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I think, now that the auction has closed, they realized that their "sales tactic" or gimmick didn't work and they want protection from their mistake. Yes it was a mistake, but the auction information was not a mistake, the price wasn't a mistake, it was a mistake on the sales tactic. THAT type of mistake should not allow them to back off the deal. I will agree in your logic that when a dealer can claim a HUMAN mistake and stuff for an error to pricing for an ad / auction / what not they should be protected from that.. Whether it's ethical when it comes to an auction, especially an online auction which has been running for several days, is a different story. Should they honor a deal in a setting of a human mistake when it comes to listing the price, I think they should in an ebay-like setting as the consumer should not pay for the dealer's mistake especially when it comes to 5k of a 60k car. If the ad went out on a newspaper that's one thing, but for an ebay auction open for a couple days, that's different because they can always either change the auction due to price error or cancel and relist the item with the correct price and reserve prior to the auction closing. The dealer should eat the cost and deal with it; they'll gain the money elsewhere, even if it's a high profit car like the m3. However, I do understand the point that if it is a true honest human mistake dealers should be protected. If it's a sales ploy, they're on their own. On other topics, my feeling is their comments to the news article are them being arrogant and thinking that they aren't going to lose business of it since they are one of the few bmw dealers in nebraska and that they are trying to make it seem like they are the good guys. I'm sorry, but their actions prior and the tone of the comments (even if I am a little biased already) is a questionable at best. |
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03-26-2008, 11:06 AM | #1140 |
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> For a business to be viable it needs to make a profit.
Agree. But a business is not entitled to a profit or viability. The bankruptcy courts are full of businesses that cannot turn a profit that will sustain their operation. > I don't know what you mean by Teenage Troll One of the [cough] "lawyers" posting sheer nonsense was susequently out'd as being a 16 year-old. I'm wondering if you're the same "yute" that is trying to reinvent himself. I'm guessing, not ... > I don't think many jewelry customers haggle You are mistaken. In my personal experience, at least half our customers haggle. Only ~10% succeed. <g> > 90% of car shoppers haggle! I'm surprised it's that few, but I'm among the few truly cash, folding money buyers and I target distressed dealers and tell'm what the deal is gonna be. No negotiation whatsoever; take-it or leave-it. If they pass, I roll-up the wad and leave. For me, it's sport. > let's stop looking at car dealers as these big bad liars I'm not broad-brushing all car dealers. I've dealt with good ones. I've dealt with bad ones. Husker Auto Group's deeds and actions speak for themselves and VTAIG. > try to resolve the issues at hand with some understanding and compassion. Huh? Are you back to "entitled profit" again, comrade? I believe that Huckster made an offer enforceable under the UCC. It's okay if we do not agree. Really, it's okay to disagree. If the principals cannot agree, a judge will decide. Huckster is betting that they can out-spend Ken ... and they certainly can. The issue is simply how much are they willing to risk and how much are they willing to spend to preserve $6K? If the story gains further traction in Lincoln, not even Herb Kelleher will be able to salvage this particular store - it'll take a name change and a broom. Last edited by rainsux; 03-26-2008 at 11:52 AM.. |
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03-26-2008, 11:08 AM | #1141 | ||
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Go spec up a $70k 550i, and then check the ED invoice on the car. I guarantee you that it will be very close to $60. And yes, BMW does indeed sell cars within less than $1k of invoice. The profit per car on an M3 is likely to be even higher than a 550i. BMW would lose no money if they sold him a car at $60k. In fact, I'll bet true cost of an M3 is much less than $60k. After all we know for a fact that true cost of a 335i is much less than $34k - because that is ED invoice on a 335i. No way in firey hell an M3 costs them a whopping $26k+ more to produce than a 335i. In fact, an M3 may well have $26 of profit in it. I would not doubt that at all. Quote:
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03-26-2008, 11:36 AM | #1143 | |
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If and when these weasels do fork over the car, you know every slimeball salesman is going to take his $6k worth of joyrides out of the car. |
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03-26-2008, 11:40 AM | #1144 |
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