M3 vs. STi

[Nine]

I've owned STIs winged and hatch for the past 6 years, I did own an s2000 and all I can say is wow - I crave the balance and performance of a true sports car. Which is why I plan to dump my STI hatch for an M3 at the end of this year.

Main factor holding me back right now is I'm waiting for my bonus - the STI has MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY things that make it a WASTE.

1. Considering it a Daily Driver, ahhh...no it's bouncy, jarring and LOUD, gets poor gas mileage and is not cheap to repair, nothing is cheap to repair, not tires, not wheels, not headlights, not gas, not anything. also short gearing makes it hell to drive in traffic or stop and go, shift, shift, shift - my s2000 had an amazing trasmission, perfectly geared and engaged amazingly.

2. Cheap Paint, get ready for swirls, hazing and chipping ...as you drive off the dealers lot with your new car.

3. Seats, Subaru please sit in an EVO and get the STI some decent seats.

4. Suspension, crikey the stock setup sucks - it basically cheats by using AWD and summer tires to achieve good times. No balance, no poise through track turns or anything. Actually they've finally toned down the 'rally inspired' jacked up suspension they come with.

The fact of the matter is that when the STI was first instroduced it was a great performance value at 30k, now at 38k, most STI shoppers are looking at 335i, 335xi, etc. Also get ready to be hit HARD by depreciation, I have a 40k sticker STI and I"m looking at getting somewhere between 26-28k for it, 2 years later....

[eVitO]

Originally Posted by richardallen

I had a Subaru STi. And I got to say its one of the best cars I have own.

The M3 would beat the STi hands down any day in the looks department. So lets not debate on that.

The performance of both cars, I would say depending on the course.

If you are in a track with longs of big sweepers and straights. The m3 would take it.

But if you are in a tight uphill or downhill course and with continuous S bends, the STi would be a better car. I feel the weight of the car is a disadvantage for such a course. I have done some uphill and downhill runs on the same course with different cars (all stock) and I rank them according to my time - Cayenne S pdk, lotus exige, sti, m3 and bentley gt.

2 different cars really

Uhhh, I hope you mean Cayman S pdk...

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by Nine

I've owned STIs winged and hatch for the past 6 years, I did own an s2000 and all I can say is wow - I crave the balance and performance of a true sports car. Which is why I plan to dump my STI hatch for an M3 at the end of this year.

Main factor holding me back right now is I'm waiting for my bonus - the STI has MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY things that make it a WASTE.

1. Considering it a Daily Driver, ahhh...no it's bouncy, jarring and LOUD, gets poor gas mileage and is not cheap to repair, nothing is cheap to repair, not tires, not wheels, not headlights, not gas, not anything. also short gearing makes it hell to drive in traffic or stop and go, shift, shift, shift - my s2000 had an amazing trasmission, perfectly geared and engaged amazingly.

2. Cheap Paint, get ready for swirls, hazing and chipping ...as you drive off the dealers lot with your new car.

3. Seats, Subaru please sit in an EVO and get the STI some decent seats.

4. Suspension, crikey the stock setup sucks - it basically cheats by using AWD and summer tires to achieve good times. No balance, no poise through track turns or anything. Actually they've finally toned down the 'rally inspired' jacked up suspension they come with.

The fact of the matter is that when the STI was first instroduced it was a great performance value at 30k, now at 38k, most STI shoppers are looking at 335i, 335xi, etc. Also get ready to be hit HARD by depreciation, I have a 40k sticker STI and I"m looking at getting somewhere between 26-28k for it, 2 years later....

yeah man, i agree, the Evo/STi started to inch a bit up market in the current generations. It was a performance bargain back in 2003 and 2004 when it first came out.

All i have to say is coming from the Evo, the M3 is the BEST all rounder. Evo has mostly the same faults as STi except for steering and suspension which is a great setup for an autocrosser or HPDE car.

M3.....
It's soft and civilized when you want it to be soft and civilzed. It's a track machine when you want it on the track, it'll turn heads, attract men, attract women, loud and "look at me" when you want it, and blend in with the crowd without attracting too much attention too. One of the best cars ever made.

[chmura]

The Subaru STI beat a e92 M3 at the track on best motoring.

So the STI is a VERY capable car.

Cannot believe people are complaining about cheap interior, its loud, etc on the Subaru STI.. Of course it is! Its $30k cheaper then the M3!!

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by chmura

The Subaru STI beat a e92 M3 at the track on best motoring.

So the STI is a VERY capable car.

Cannot believe people are complaining about cheap interior, its loud, etc on the Subaru STI.. Of course it is! Its $30k cheaper then the M3!!

I think the point being is the STI is harsh and a bit one dimensional when comparing to the much more expensive M3. But in the end, it's a bit like the Mustang GT comparison, they are different cars for different requirements.

[davedave]

Originally Posted by chmura

The Subaru STI beat a e92 M3 at the track on best motoring.

So the STI is a VERY capable car.

Cannot believe people are complaining about cheap interior, its loud, etc on the Subaru STI.. Of course it is! Its $30k cheaper then the M3!!

just drive what u guys like. if you like STI then STI. if you can afford M3 then M3.

always something faster and better even u drive a Enzo.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by chmura

The Subaru STI beat a e92 M3 at the track on best motoring.

So the STI is a VERY capable car.

Cannot believe people are complaining about cheap interior, its loud, etc on the Subaru STI.. Of course it is! Its $30k cheaper then the M3!!

Go buy one then. Trade your Lexus in and get one. Personally --- nothing against the STi or Evo--- but I'd never in a million years consider one. First off, the styling is hideous and secondly, I'm over 25, don't wear my hat sideways or love the sound of a fart can exhaust. Their performance speaks for itself and I never disrespect them on the street or track but it ain't the style of someone considering an M3, Porsche, Audi, etc. Sorry man but facts are facts.

If someone on this forum wanted an STi they'd own it...there is a reason they don't. Shit, a C6 Z06 will obliterate anything we have discussed here and you can pick a used one up for $40-45K these days. We don't, once again, for a reason. The build quality isn't there...much like the Sti, Evo, etc. The M3 combines the performance with class, build quality, fit/finish and style like no other out there in it's price range. Pretty simple concept as far as I'm concerned.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by alms211

Go buy one then. Trade your Lexus in and get one. Personally --- nothing against the STi or Evo--- but I'd never in a million years consider one. First off, the styling is hideous and secondly, I'm over 25, don't wear my hat sideways or love the sound of a fart can exhaust. Their performance speaks for itself and I never disrespect them on the street or track but it ain't the style of someone considering an M3, Porsche, Audi, etc. Sorry man but facts are facts.

If someone on this forum wanted an STi they'd own it...there is a reason they don't. Shit, a C6 Z06 will obliterate anything we have discussed here and you can pick a used one up for $40-45K these days. We don't, once again, for a reason. The build quality isn't there...much like the Sti, Evo, etc. The M3 combines the performance with class, build quality, fit/finish and style like no other out there in it's price range. Pretty simple concept as far as I'm concerned.

I nearly spewed Fresca out my nose from your fart can exhaust comment. Couldn't be more true. I really get a chuckle out of people who would buy a Sentra or Accord, stick the fart can exhaust on it, lower it, put insanely expensive wheels on it, and who knows what to strain that engine beyond its limits, wreck the warranty and probably shorten the life of the engine to 15k miles. I just want to grab their scrawny little neck and tell them for the money they dropped into that shit can, they could have bought a brand new car DESIGNED to be quick. It seems like the STI/Evo are the factory version of that. It didn't really dawn on me till you wrote that, but in essence that is what those cars cater to.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by Scoobe

I nearly spewed Fresca out my nose from your fart can exhaust comment. Couldn't be more true. I really get a chuckle out of people who would buy a Sentra or Accord, stick the fart can exhaust on it, lower it, put insanely expensive wheels on it, and who knows what to strain that engine beyond its limits, wreck the warranty and probably shorten the life of the engine to 15k miles. I just want to grab their scrawny little neck and tell them for the money they dropped into that shit can, they could have bought a brand new car DESIGNED to be quick. It seems like the STI/Evo are the factory version of that. It didn't really dawn on me till you wrote that, but in essence that is what those cars cater to.

So much hate for people that want to modify a specific car a specific way.

I recommend you have more sex.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

So much hate for people that want to modify a specific car a specific way.

I recommend you have more sex.

Its not hate, it's being befuddled with a sprinkle of amusement. I mean seriously, is there logic in taking a 20k car designed for 30mpg and dumping another 15k in modifications to get the car to look and behave sporty? Given for the same money, they can choose from a multitude of cars designed from ground up to be a sporty car, have a warranty to go with it, and get better performance and longevity?

I guess I could take a lawnmower, put big wheels and tires on it, hop up the motor, add a long throw suspension, and call it an ATV, but whats the freakin point?

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by Scoobe

Its not hate, it's being befuddled with a sprinkle of amusement. I mean seriously, is there logic in taking a 20k car designed for 30mpg and dumping another 15k in modifications to get the car to look and behave sporty? Given for the same money, they can choose from a multitude of cars designed from ground up to be a sporty car, have a warranty to go with it, and get better performance and longevity?

I guess I could take a lawnmower, put big wheels and tires on it, hop up the motor, add a long throw suspension, and call it an ATV, but whats the freakin point?

I think your numbers are high. Most heavily modded Hondas and Sentras are purchased used for far less than that.

I would say they are spending:

$4000-$6000 on the car.
$500-$1000 on a full exhaust.
$500-1000 on wheels.
$200 tint.
$500 springs.

So that is $5700 - $8700 to make it look nice and not much else (assuming they have nice taste). I really don't think most people in this category are really trying to make the car perform like an STi/Evo; they just want it to look decent. That is a far cry from an STi that is pushing 40k these days. Even if you do reasonable work on the stereo, it's nowhere close. A used 04/05 STi is probably 14-18k so you are roughly talking 2x, or more, the cash.

Sure you will see japanese econo show cars that have endless money dumped in them, but you see the same thing in the form of M3s with 50k in them. It's all relative.

[serge]

Originally Posted by alms211

Go buy one then. Trade your Lexus in and get one. Personally --- nothing against the STi or Evo--- but I'd never in a million years consider one. First off, the styling is hideous and secondly, I'm over 25, don't wear my hat sideways or love the sound of a fart can exhaust. Their performance speaks for itself and I never disrespect them on the street or track but it ain't the style of someone considering an M3, Porsche, Audi, etc. Sorry man but facts are facts.

Aren't you mistaking Evos/STIs with 2F2F Civics? I owned an '05 Evo VIII and was a very matured driver who never wore a hat sideways and didn't get a "fart can exhaust". Do I need to remind you that these cars sell here in Europe for $60-65k?

To the OP, it all depends on the mods you have on the STI. My Evo would run circles around my M3, period! With only $3,000 worth of mods this thing did 12.08 @ 114.8 at the track with 93 pump gas (11.90 @116 with race gas, but that's cheating and never claim this run lol). However, I wouldn't go back to this car in a million years. The M3 excels in all the areas where the Evo fails, and it has 90% of the straight line performance my Evo had.

[serge]

Originally Posted by Scoobe

Its not hate, it's being befuddled with a sprinkle of amusement. I mean seriously, is there logic in taking a 20k car designed for 30mpg and dumping another 15k in modifications to get the car to look and behave sporty? Given for the same money, they can choose from a multitude of cars designed from ground up to be a sporty car, have a warranty to go with it, and get better performance and longevity?

I guess I could take a lawnmower, put big wheels and tires on it, hop up the motor, add a long throw suspension, and call it an ATV, but whats the freakin point?

We're not talking about cheap appliances like the Sentra. Full catback exhausts with cat deletion plus the addition of downpipes can free up ridiculous amounts of power on many turbocharged cars like the Evo and the STi. And by the way, there are many aftermarket quiet exhausts for these cars. I had the Greddy Evo-2 which was considered the quietest in the market. I can't stand loud cars.

[MrHarris]

All I know is, the M3 is badass in it's own right, but so is the evo and the sti.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

I think your numbers are high. Most heavily modded Hondas and Sentras are purchased used for far less than that.

I would say they are spending:

$4000-$6000 on the car.
$500-$1000 on a full exhaust.
$500-1000 on wheels.
$200 tint.
$500 springs.

So that is $5700 - $8700 to make it look nice and not much else (assuming they have nice taste). I really don't think most people in this category are really trying to make the car perform like an STi/Evo; they just want it to look decent. That is a far cry from an STi that is pushing 40k these days. Even if you do reasonable work on the stereo, it's nowhere close. A used 04/05 STi is probably 14-18k so you are roughly talking 2x, or more, the cash.

Sure you will see japanese econo show cars that have endless money dumped in them, but you see the same thing in the form of M3s with 50k in them. It's all relative.

I'm not really talking about someone buying a used car and making it look good. I'm more focused on those that bought brand new econo cars and dumped more into than asthetics and exhaust. A kid at Home Depot a couple years ago walked up to me while I was driving my GT500. He had the stereotypical look about him and then proceeded to tell me all the things he did to his car, NOS injection, bigger cams, a turbo charger. Then he told me it was a Toyota matrix or something like that. I don't care what anyone says, that's just silly. That car is just waiting to have the pistons blown through the hood.

But a kid who doesn't have a lot of money, buying a cheaper car so he can kit it out with wheels etc, those are understandable. I'm talking more about the new econo car jacked up with engine work and the giant 50 gallon drum fart can exhaust in the back and the wheels that stick out of the fenders 8 inches, with sparks flying out from underneath it hitting expansion joints on bridges.

You hit the nail on the head, you're referring to tasteful which I think is cool, I'm talking about distasteful and moronic mods.

I have no beefs about the STI or Evo. Both of them are well done purpose built cars. I wouldn't own one simply because I have a bad back and the only STI I ever ridden in forced me to take 800mg Motrin for the rest of the day. Both however do fit the appearance of "I've taken an econo car and made it a sports car". But everything about those cars performance wise is done right and well designed. Still it can carry that stigma.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by serge

We're not talking about cheap appliances like the Sentra. Full catback exhausts with cat deletion plus the addition of downpipes can free up ridiculous amounts of power on many turbocharged cars like the Evo and the STi. And by the way, there are many aftermarket quiet exhausts for these cars. I had the Greddy Evo-2 which was considered the quietest in the market. I can't stand loud cars.

No I think the sentiment was that the STI/Evo invoke that stigma. You're evo is classy and most of them are. My comments were about appliances trying to be STI/Evos actually hurting the STI/Evo image. It doesn't take much to search google and find Yaris, Matrix, Sentra's, (name your econo car here) with thousands of dollars in mods on brand new cars (to include engine mods) and with the stereotypical drivers.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by alms211

Go buy one then. Trade your Lexus in and get one. Personally --- nothing against the STi or Evo--- but I'd never in a million years consider one. First off, the styling is hideous and secondly, I'm over 25, don't wear my hat sideways or love the sound of a fart can exhaust. Their performance speaks for itself and I never disrespect them on the street or track but it ain't the style of someone considering an M3, Porsche, Audi, etc. Sorry man but facts are facts.

.

subjective subjective subjective. I prefer blue over white b/c white is ugly... subjective statement, bad for arguments other than for yourself. BTW I never wore my hat sideways and the Evo exhaust is not a far can, most ppl spend a good $600 - $1000 for HKS or Greddy exhuasts which the last time I checked are pretty high quality.

I also don't think it's valid to say Porsche or BMW customers will never consider Evo or STis, what about me, or Nine, or the OP? Last time I checked, a large portion of members here came from these two cars. What about all those 335 drivers? I bet there's a bigger percentage that considered the Evo and Sti.

The facts are, Evo/STi are absolute MONSTERS if you're willing to spend $3k-$5 on it. It'll tear up the M3 and spit it out. it'll beat the M3 on on the drag, on a road course, on a dirt course, in the snow, any where, you name it, it'll be faster.

That said, I never wanted to do full track duty on my old Evo and to setting it up as such will decrease the streetablity of the car. So, my comment on the M3 being a good all rounder is the main reason I bought the car.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by mdosu

I also don't think it's valid to say Porsche or BMW customers will never consider Evo or STis, what about me, or Nine, or the OP? Last time I checked, a large portion of members here came from these two cars. What about all those 335 drivers? I bet there's a bigger percentage that considered the Evo and Sti.

Totally true. I plan to have an STi and/or an Evo in the stable one day...when I have a stable one day ; P Who knows if that will be a newer car, or a classic model I always loved.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Everytime I hear an STI with or without that big fart can, the boxer engine sounds just about the worst thing south of the ricer clan.

And I bet you love the sound of a GT2 or GT3RS.

[serge]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

And I bet you love the sound of a GT2 or GT3RS.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by mdosu

subjective subjective subjective. I prefer blue over white b/c white is ugly... subjective statement, bad for arguments other than for yourself. BTW I never wore my hat sideways and the Evo exhaust is not a far can, most ppl spend a good $600 - $1000 for HKS or Greddy exhuasts which the last time I checked are pretty high quality.

I also don't think it's valid to say Porsche or BMW customers will never consider Evo or STis, what about me, or Nine, or the OP? Last time I checked, a large portion of members here came from these two cars. What about all those 335 drivers? I bet there's a bigger percentage that considered the Evo and Sti.

The facts are, Evo/STi are absolute MONSTERS if you're willing to spend $3k-$5 on it. It'll tear up the M3 and spit it out. it'll beat the M3 on on the drag, on a road course, on a dirt course, in the snow, any where, you name it, it'll be faster.

That said, I never wanted to do full track duty on my old Evo and to setting it up as such will decrease the streetablity of the car. So, my comment on the M3 being a good all rounder is the main reason I bought the car.

Originally Posted by quality_sound

And I bet you love the sound of a GT2 or GT3RS.

exactly

[powertrip]

Totally different sounds bud . Porsche uses equal length headers, whereas Subaru employs inefficient unequal length headers which give them their characteristic "rumble."

Installing equal lengths on my '07 track car was the best mod I ever performed. Sounded just like well tuned 996 TT.

Originally Posted by quality_sound

And I bet you love the sound of a GT2 or GT3RS.