BMW M3 vs Porsche Carrera which is Quicker

[alms21]

I'm curious -- out of all you guys opining on which is faster, etc., how many track their cars on a regular basis? If you don't track it more than 10 times a year, why do you get so caught up in 'Ring times and which is faster by how much and to the point it influences which one you will buy? I'd bet alot of money that 99.9% of you will never get even 90% out of what these cars have to offer....that's EVEN if you do track it. IF you don't track it, you will NEVER get 90-100% out of what the car has to offer.

I drive a 997S and will not argue that the Porsche is a true sports car that is more of a "driver's car" than the E92M3. Having said that, I think the E92M3 blows it away in every other way. Why? because I don't track the 997S (and bet most of you don't track your cars either)and 90% of the time it's driven in a civilized manner as a daily driver (10% of the time, I'm running through the twisties out in the country). Even that 10% of the time in the twisties, there will be no significant noticable difference in performance between the two but the 90% of the other time there will be a significant difference in "civilized daily driving" between the two.

Just one guy's opinion.

edit-- forgot most important part. For the aforemetioned reasons, I'm selling my 997S for an E92M3

[GPRAbmw]

Originally Posted by alms21

I'm curious -- out of all you guys opining on which is faster, etc., how many track their cars on a regular basis? If you don't track it more than 10 times a year, why do you get so caught up in 'Ring times and which is faster by how much and to the point it influences which one you will buy? I'd bet alot of money that 99.9% of you will never get even 90% out of what these cars have to offer....that's EVEN if you do track it. IF you don't track it, you will NEVER get 90-100% out of what the car has to offer.

I drive a 997S and will not argue that the Porsche is a true sports car that is more of a "driver's car" than the E92M3. Having said that, I think the E92M3 blows it away in every other way. Why? because I don't track the 997S (and bet most of you don't track your cars either)and 90% of the time it's driven in a civilized manner as a daily driver (10% of the time, I'm running through the twisties out in the country). Even that 10% of the time in the twisties, there will be no significant noticable difference in performance between the two but the 90% of the other time there will be a significant difference in "civilized daily driving" between the two.

Just one guy's opinion.

edit-- forgot most important part. For the aforemetioned reasons, I'm selling my 997S for an E92M3

Scott, whats up buddy? Don't tell me youre getting rid of that gorgeous 997S for an M3? Your brakes alone cost about 1/7 of the m3s base price.

Anyway, if you dont care about the extra performance of the M3, since youre not going to drive it on a track, you should get another 335i coupe, right?

[Brianrg]

Originally Posted by Splinter4784

Porsche rates the horsepower at the wheels while BMW does it at the Crank

So thats the main reason why the m3 loses, because the Porsche is making the same or more whp than the m3 at hundreds of pounds lighter

Are you sure? Very respectable if they are listing wheel horsepower.
Has anyone dyno'd their C2S PDK?

[GPRAbmw]

Originally Posted by Brianrg

Are you sure? Very respectable if they are listing wheel horsepower.
Has anyone dyno'd their C2S PDK?

That is not true. Its rates at hp standards written by the SAE. The reason why you might think this is because Porsche's don't have the drivetrain loss other cars do because of the rear/rear layout. I've seen the 997.2 C2S put down 338 RWHP on an All Wheel Dyno. On a Rear Wheel Dyno, I would be willing to bet it would be in the 345-350 rwhp range. Even at 340 rwhp its only an 11.X% drivetrain loss, which is very minimal.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by GPRAbmw

Scott, whats up buddy? Don't tell me youre getting rid of that gorgeous 997S for an M3? Your brakes alone cost about 1/7 of the m3s base price.

Anyway, if you dont care about the extra performance of the M3, since youre not going to drive it on a track, you should get another 335i coupe, right?

Hey man, just can't seem to land the "right car". Starting to think I'm either a female or that I have multiple personalities

I want the combination of the comfort of my former M5 with the sportiness of the 997S. I think the E92M3 covers that. I don't really need 4 doors but I do use the trunk all the time (golf clubs, dry cleaning, etc.) so I'm thinking coupe M3. My former 335i was very nice but I need the DCT, flared fenders and high revving V8. The only way I wouldn't get the E92M3 is if someone was giving their CLK63 AMG Black Series away for about $70K.

[GPRAbmw]

Originally Posted by alms21

Hey man, just can't seem to land the "right car". Starting to think I'm either a female or that I have multiple personalities

I want the combination of the comfort of my former M5 with the sportiness of the 997S. I think the E92M3 covers that. I don't really need 4 doors but I do use the trunk all the time (golf clubs, dry cleaning, etc.) so I'm thinking coupe M3. My former 335i was very nice but I need the DCT, flared fenders and high revving V8. The only way I wouldn't get the E92M3 is if someone was giving their CLK63 AMG Black Series away for about $70K.

Yea man, you know I'm the same way! The M3 def comes clost to covering that. I guess you cant go to a 997TT since you can't fit the golf clubs. Why don't you just get the 997TT and leave your clubs at the course? That solves it. I don't think there's anything better than the 911 turbo for peformance and luxury that is as fun to drive. I miss not having the ability to grab my father's 911 Turbo Cab when Im at home to go tear up the back roads with.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by GPRAbmw

Yea man, you know I'm the same way! The M3 def comes clost to covering that. I guess you cant go to a 997TT since you can't fit the golf clubs. Why don't you just get the 997TT and leave your clubs at the course? That solves it. I don't think there's anything better than the 911 turbo for peformance and luxury that is as fun to drive. I miss not having the ability to grab my father's 911 Turbo Cab when Im at home to go tear up the back roads with.

Sending you a PM

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by alms21

I'm curious -- out of all you guys opining on which is faster, etc., how many track their cars on a regular basis? If you don't track it more than 10 times a year, why do you get so caught up in 'Ring times and which is faster by how much and to the point it influences which one you will buy? I'd bet alot of money that 99.9% of you will never get even 90% out of what these cars have to offer....that's EVEN if you do track it. IF you don't track it, you will NEVER get 90-100% out of what the car has to offer.

I drive a 997S and will not argue that the Porsche is a true sports car that is more of a "driver's car" than the E92M3. Having said that, I think the E92M3 blows it away in every other way. Why? because I don't track the 997S (and bet most of you don't track your cars either)and 90% of the time it's driven in a civilized manner as a daily driver (10% of the time, I'm running through the twisties out in the country). Even that 10% of the time in the twisties, there will be no significant noticable difference in performance between the two but the 90% of the other time there will be a significant difference in "civilized daily driving" between the two.

Just one guy's opinion.

edit-- forgot most important part. For the aforemetioned reasons, I'm selling my 997S for an E92M3

+1
Congrats on the M3.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by warzilla

Mr Senor 'whatever' pants,

Dude if are dyslexic or have some other reading/comprehension problem just cut&paste my name.
HTH.
As for the rest of your post...what do you care? When everyone has lost interest in posting the thread will die.
Oh and in answer to the OPs post the answer by the numbers is:
997
M3
997 S

[footie]

Originally Posted by alms21

I'm curious -- out of all you guys opining on which is faster, etc., how many track their cars on a regular basis? If you don't track it more than 10 times a year, why do you get so caught up in 'Ring times and which is faster by how much and to the point it influences which one you will buy? I'd bet alot of money that 99.9% of you will never get even 90% out of what these cars have to offer....that's EVEN if you do track it. IF you don't track it, you will NEVER get 90-100% out of what the car has to offer.

I drive a 997S and will not argue that the Porsche is a true sports car that is more of a "driver's car" than the E92M3. Having said that, I think the E92M3 blows it away in every other way. Why? because I don't track the 997S (and bet most of you don't track your cars either)and 90% of the time it's driven in a civilized manner as a daily driver (10% of the time, I'm running through the twisties out in the country). Even that 10% of the time in the twisties, there will be no significant noticable difference in performance between the two but the 90% of the other time there will be a significant difference in "civilized daily driving" between the two.

Just one guy's opinion.

edit-- forgot most important part. For the aforemetioned reasons, I'm selling my 997S for an E92M3

Well put. I think I said something similar in that the M3 is a better allrounder but it's not as good a driver's car.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Its certainly a tough decision between the two depending on whats important to you...the new 2010 997 TT PDK on the other hand...I'd have one of those in a heartbeat.
I wonder if my wife really needs 2 kidneys.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Its certainly a tough decision between the two depending on whats important to you...the new 2010 997 TT PDK on the other hand...I'd have one of those in a heartbeat.
I wonder if my wife really needs 2 kidneys.

I don't disagree a bit about the 997TT w/ PDK. There are two things that will stop me though.......the price tag and no trunk. Good god, would I love to have one as a weekend beast.

[GPRAbmw]

Originally Posted by footie

Well put. I think I said something similar in that the M3 is a better allrounder but it's not as good a driver's car.

I would hope the M3 was a better all around car. Its meant to be, and thats exactly what BMW has in mind when they make it. Porsche on the other hand doesn't design their cars this way, other than the 911 Turbo (see my post above re: best supercar pefromance & luxury in drivers car comment). Their cars are meant to be more race/sport and focused on being a prescision tool that is more like a scalple. Its meant to be a pure, thrilling driver's car, which they are, and few cars come anywhere close.

[graider]

Originally Posted by alms21

I'm curious -- out of all you guys opining on which is faster, etc., how many track their cars on a regular basis? If you don't track it more than 10 times a year, why do you get so caught up in 'Ring times and which is faster by how much and to the point it influences which one you will buy? I'd bet alot of money that 99.9% of you will never get even 90% out of what these cars have to offer....that's EVEN if you do track it. IF you don't track it, you will NEVER get 90-100% out of what the car has to offer.

I drive a 997S and will not argue that the Porsche is a true sports car that is more of a "driver's car" than the E92M3. Having said that, I think the E92M3 blows it away in every other way. Why? because I don't track the 997S (and bet most of you don't track your cars either)and 90% of the time it's driven in a civilized manner as a daily driver (10% of the time, I'm running through the twisties out in the country). Even that 10% of the time in the twisties, there will be no significant noticable difference in performance between the two but the 90% of the other time there will be a significant difference in "civilized daily driving" between the two.

Just one guy's opinion.

edit-- forgot most important part. For the aforemetioned reasons, I'm selling my 997S for an E92M3

agree. that's why i would take the m3 over the cayman s anyday. how they do few tenths quicker on a track is worthless to most people.

[graider]

Originally Posted by GPRAbmw

Scott, whats up buddy? Don't tell me youre getting rid of that gorgeous 997S for an M3? Your brakes alone cost about 1/7 of the m3s base price.

Anyway, if you dont care about the extra performance of the M3, since youre not going to drive it on a track, you should get another 335i coupe, right?

so are you saying the other 98% of m3 owners should strart tracking their car? You can still use alot of that performance on the street depend on how you look at it.

by your logic, why not just get an accord or a civic sedan.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by alms21

Hey man, just can't seem to land the "right car". Starting to think I'm either a female or that I have multiple personalities

I want the combination of the comfort of my former M5 with the sportiness of the 997S. I think the E92M3 covers that. I don't really need 4 doors but I do use the trunk all the time (golf clubs, dry cleaning, etc.) so I'm thinking coupe M3. My former 335i was very nice but I need the DCT, flared fenders and high revving V8. The only way I wouldn't get the E92M3 is if someone was giving their CLK63 AMG Black Series away for about $70K.

fwiw, as you know a P-car just by itself is never an ideal choice. Keep the 997 and get a good fun DD with a smooth V-8 with a big trunk and that allows comfy travel.

You'll miss the P-car after it's gone.......

[SenorFunkyPants]

Or buy the M3 and pick up an older 911 (what do 993 turbos fetch in the US?) for a weekend/fun car....older 911s do usually hold their price quite well.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

fwiw, as you know a P-car just by itself is never an ideal choice. Keep the 997 and get a good fun DD with a smooth V-8 with a big trunk and that allows comfy travel.

You'll miss the P-car after it's gone.......

I'm sort of thinking along the same lines but I want to spend "the real money" on the DD.

I see myself picking up like a '97 993S for some weekend fun

[footie]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Or buy the M3 and pick up an older 911 (what do 993 turbos fetch in the US?) for a weekend/fun car....older 911s do usually hold their price quite well.

You could do that but then you are stepping back to the age when the 911 was a bit more than just a handful. From my experience you are much better picking a more normal DD car and going the extra mile on your weekend/trackday car. After driving something like an M3 through the week when it came to the weekend the older 993 would feel very old technology and the lag from the turbo would be something that you would find odd in comparison and dominate the whole experience, along with it's unruly tail.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by footie

You could do that but then you are stepping back to the age when the 911 was a bit more than just a handful. From my experience you are much better picking a more normal DD car and going the extra mile on your weekend/trackday car. After driving something like an M3 through the week when it came to the weekend the older 993 would feel very old technology and the lag from the turbo would be something that you would find odd in comparison and dominate the whole experience, along with it's unruly tail.

Thats the whole point. Something I drive 85% of the time, I want the comfort features (i.e. DCT, Bluetooth, Sat Radio, etc.) and willing to spend the $$$ there.

For the 100+- miles/month I'd put on a "weekend toy", why would I need those comforts or today's driving technology? Makes no sense to me. I'd be looking for a $35K 993S -- not a 993Turbo.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by footie

You could do that but then you are stepping back to the age when the 911 was a bit more than just a handful. From my experience you are much better picking a more normal DD car and going the extra mile on your weekend/trackday car. After driving something like an M3 through the week when it came to the weekend the older 993 would feel very old technology and the lag from the turbo would be something that you would find odd in comparison and dominate the whole experience, along with it's unruly tail.

The thing I noticed first about the 997 C2S was just how "old school" 911 it felt...although with extra safety netting if you got carried away.
Anyway....I loved the old turbos, no PASM, ABS or traction control and a bit of lag added up to a thrilling drive and a sense of accomplishment went with every trip that you managed to avoid putting it backwards through a hedge.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by alms21

Thats the whole point. Something I drive 85% of the time, I want the comfort features (i.e. DCT, Bluetooth, Sat Radio, etc.) and willing to spend the $$$ there.

For the 100+- miles/month I'd put on a "weekend toy", why would I need those comforts or today's driving technology? Makes no sense to me. I'd be looking for a $35K 993S -- not a 993Turbo.

In a perfect world, everybody should be able to get just what they'd like, and there's no doubt that 993s are very entertaining cars to drive.

But.

Around here, we call 993s "Tuesday cars". Because they're all fun and games, right up until you come into a turn a little too hot, and have the temerity to actually lift. Right then, your entertaining little Sunday morning ride turns into a beast that bites you in the ass, and, as Bill Cosby said: "First you say it, then you do it."

You call your local paper on Monday, and the ad shows up on Tuesday.

Bruce