High Mileage M's and Major Repairs

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by Dannys M3

This response is for the OP. I average 24K miles a year and currently sitting at 76K miles. The statements about how much to drive your car are silly. This car was meant to be driven. I have only heard of one person achieving 100K on another message board. No repairs have been necessary, unless you want to count the time I spent $100 to refill the AC system. My commute is about 50/50 highway city and I'm averaging 300 miles to a tank. Tires/gas and oil changes should be your major expenses. Enjoy your M3.

Thanks for all those that have posted actual mileage and maintenance costs. From what i've read on the forums of real life (non hearsay) experiences i have read on all the boards seems like the E9x Mcars have not had any problems getting near 100k miles.

[Krozi]

Originally Posted by tibra1

So says the guy from sunny FL,,see you at resale time and we'll see how silly..

Who are you buying the car for? Yourself or the next guy?



Anyway...OP, so far I have 38,000 miles and my repair history so far consists of only 1 front strut, 2 front wheel bearings, and the little button panel next to the shifter cause the EDC led was flickering.

[ttt]

Slightly off-topic here:
I really don't think driving 17k a year is unreasonable. If we're talking about a vintage exotic car, then it makes sense to preserve it. That's not the case here; it's a mass produced BMW 3 series. Sure gas price and repair bills add up, but I already knew that coming in. To me the price is worth it. I'd hate to not able to dd my M3 and drive something boring to work every day. Every time I touch the steering wheel of a Prius, I die a little bit inside. As one previous poster said, I'm getting the car for myself, not to sell it to the next guy. If I really care about resale value, there are a lot more sensible options out there. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[tibra1]

I drive new cars every 3 yrs or so and I buy the cars out right so obtaining max re-sale value is key for me..I dont see the upside to aimlessly rack up miles on my M3...and to be honest ..driving daily beaters makes me appreciate the M3 that much more when I am in it..to each their own

[C|3R1C]

I put approx. 21k miles on my M3 every year.. had it about two years so far. I drive it all the time because I love being in my car, especially after mods. I plan to drive the car until it dies. Also, get as much use out of it as you can, because in a few years, the new one comes out, then another, then another, and the small percentage you lose in residual value, I feel, is negligible. Just my two cents, and as tibra1 said, "To each their own." Just sharing my thoughts

[Grail05]

WOW i have 60k no issue.... other than maintenance... NO PROBLEM. still love the car..

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by C|3R1C

I put approx. 21k miles on my M3 every year.. had it about two years so far. I drive it all the time because I love being in my car, especially after mods. I plan to drive the car until it dies. Also, get as much use out of it as you can, because in a few years, the new one comes out, then another, then another, and the small percentage you lose in residual value, I feel, is negligible. Just my two cents, and as tibra1 said, "To each their own." Just sharing my thoughts

Thanks. Thats exactly my perspective. I wanna drive and I hope the car will last 100k then i will buy a new toy and hopefully upgrade. Thanks guys for the info.

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by tibra1

...think this over...

...see you at resale time and we'll see how silly.....

I drive new cars every 3 yrs or so and I buy the cars out right so obtaining max re-sale value is key for me..I dont see the upside to aimlessly rack up miles on my M3...and to be honest ..driving daily beaters makes me appreciate the M3 that much more when I am in it..to each their own

Wait... you pay outright for a highly depreciating asset that you flip every three years, but you're telling the OP it is unwise to rack up miles? Ha alright, I must be misunderstanding you.

I drive my M3 about 17k miles per year and enjoy every time I get in the car, traffic or not. I have a higher-mileage lease and put down little upfront. I make my payments without taking any money out of my investments in the market to do so. The money you paid up front, which you presumably took out of the market (unless, even worse, you were all cash), went out the window while the World and S&P equity indices returned nicely positive. Maybe you should think this over.

Originally Posted by biggynuts01

Hi guys...

60k miles without a single problem.

[quads]

I've had mine for exactly 1 year and I just hit 24k.

If you keep it nice and sheltered you're just saving it for the next guy after you.

Just like horses - they're meant to run and be used. If you don't they have an expiration date as well.

Nothing lasts forever. Use it or lose it.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Wait... you pay outright for a highly depreciating asset that you flip every three years, but you're telling the OP it is unwise to rack up miles? Ha alright, I must be misunderstanding you.

I drive my M3 about 17k miles per year and enjoy every time I get in the car, traffic or not. I have a higher-mileage lease and put down little upfront. I make my payments without taking any money out of my investments in the market to do so. The money you paid up front, which you presumably took out of the market (unless, even worse, you were all cash), went out the window while the World and S&P equity indices returned nicely positive. Maybe you should think this over.

I cant explain the concept of maximizing the value of a depreciating asset to people who have already determined they want to drive their cars till it "dies", racking up ridculous miles, are leasing etc..

With regards to money up front..calculate how much you will spend over the life of a lease and how much you will get back ($0)....So to pay in full and enjoy the car reasonably for a few yrs; sell it near end of warranty and get into something new; while recouping 80 -85% of its value makes perfect sense to me..The purchase of a car will in no way impact my investment portfolio and my method in the long run minimizes exposure due to depreciation..

Besides the amount of capital gains you would earn on $75K over say 3 yrs in the market is nothing compared to how much out of pocket you would be on a lease..so your point about keeping money in the market is moot.

In summary..yeah think it over

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by tibra1

I cant explain the concept of maximizing the value of a depreciating asset to people who have already determined they want to drive their cars till it "dies", racking up ridculous miles, are leasing etc..

With regards to money up front..calculate how much you will spend over the life of a lease and how much you will get back ($0)....So to pay in full and enjoy the car reasonably for a few yrs; sell it near end of warranty and get into something new; while recouping 80 -85% of its value makes perfect sense to me..The purchase of a car will in no way impact my investment portfolio and my method in the long run minimizes exposure due to depreciation..

Besides the amount of capital gains you would earn on $75K over say 3 yrs in the market is nothing compared to how much out of pocket you would be on a lease..so your point about keeping money in the market is moot.

In summary..yeah think it over

Ha wow. I have some Greek debt to sell you, clearly you're the one buying.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Ha wow. I have some Greek debt to sell you, clearly you're buying.

I dont even know what this means or has to do with our discussion.. if anything these financial crises just furthers my point that capital gains in the market arent what they once were..but if you feel like you can counter my argument with sound financial data...please do so..

I do finance and investments for a living..so consider I may know what I am talking about..be happy to crunch the numbers for you..

[quads]

Originally Posted by tibra1

I dont even know what that has to do with our discussion..but if you feel like you can counter my argument with sound financial data...please do so..

I do finance and investments for a living..so consider I may know what I am talking about..be happy to crunch the numbers for you..

You're the exact kind of financial advisor I avoid. If you think there's a one-size-fits-all package then you're delusional.

Different people have different needs. Some people always need to drive a car that is 3 years or less and don't mind the additional costs so a lease makes more sense as they wrap up the additional expense as "part of the business" - for example salesmen, real estate brokers to name a few.

There are others who plan on keeping the car close to a decade so a lease doesn't make sense at all.

It's a fact that the day you drive a brand new car off the lot the value drops like a rock - more than any period of time in the lifetime of the car. New cars are never "investments." Thats one of the many variables one has to personally consider before making a decision.

Just because you don't PREFER to drive a car until it's wheels falls off doesn't mean it isn't any more valid to someone else.

It's "finance" people like you with self centered "tunnel vision" that make me sick to my stomach.

[Dannys M3]

Originally Posted by tibra1

So says the guy from sunny FL,,see you at resale time and we'll see how silly..

If you were worried about resale you should have bought a Hyundai

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/

[MatthewDavid]

By the way, I thought it over as you requested. My math skills are a little rusty, so we'll use round numbers and the S&P 500 Index ETF SPY to make it easy.

The car at time of delivery was $70k. Lease payments were about $36k including tax plus the $3k down. So, I spent $39k. We’ll ignore tires, gas, licensing, etc., because those are costs we both had to pay regardless.

Over the three years I had the car, my $70k not spent would have returned the following:

$70k * SPY's return in 2009 (27.86%) = $19,502 gain. My $70k is now worth $89,502
$89,502 * SPY's return in 2010 (11.8%) = $10,561 gain. My $70k is now worth $100,063
$100,063 * SPY's return in 2011 (-0.08%) =$80 loss. My $70k is now worth $99,982

Total profit, about $30k. Subtract out my lease cost of $39k, and I paid about $9k for
“The Ultimate Driving Machine” over three years.

Let's see, you paid $70k and recouped a very, very generous 85%, despite residuals after three years being more like 50% (hey don’t believe me, believe AutoTrader.com). That means you lost $10,500 ($70k * 15%), or about the same as me. But, don't forget you paid full sales tax, which I think is 4.5%. So, let’s see, 4.5% sales tax = $3,150 plus the $10,500 = $13,650. So, $4k more than me?

Now, had you sold the car for a more realistic $40k (haggle with me on this if you want, it doesn’t matter), which is still generous but realistic, you lost $30k plus your tax of $3,150, which is $33k and change, or $20k more than me.

But, let’s say I made those lease payments up front (which I didn’t) and they didn’t compound as above, making me half the profit. I’d miss out on $16k in profit or so. So, I lose my original $9k plus $16K = $25k. Even in this scenario you paid $8k more.

Ok, ok, to be even more fair, let’s say having the M3 got me some serious ass over three years. That’d eat up my $8k and then some, but at least I’d have a smile on my face and “The Ultimate Driving Machine”.

Ouch.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Dannys M3

If you were worried about resale you should have bought a Hyundai

Thats just the point I am not worried about resale

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by tibra1

I do finance and investments for a living..so consider I may know what I am talking about..be happy to crunch the numbers for you..

You're in investments and don't know what I mean by buying Greek debt? The haircuts on that are worse than MF Global stock (not really, just being dramatic).

By all means, check me if you'd like. My math is above. I could be wildly, incredibly, hideously wrong. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll admit it. But if you're wrong, quit your day job.

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by Dannys M3

If you were worried about resale you should have bought a Hyundai

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/

Ha he probably has one of those, too, as his commuter car, at which point, add that cost to my math above.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

By the way, I thought it over as you requested. My math skills are a little rusty, so we'll use round numbers and the S&P 500 Index ETF SPY to make it easy.

The car at time of delivery was $70k. Lease payments were about $36k including tax plus the $3k down. So, I spent $39k. We’ll ignore tires, gas, licensing, etc., because those are costs we both had to pay regardless.

Over the three years I had the car, my $70k not spent would have returned the following:

$70k * SPY's return in 2009 (27.86%) = $19,502 gain. My $70k is now worth $89,502
$89,502 * SPY's return in 2010 (11.8%) = $10,561 gain. My $70k is now worth $100,063
$100,063 * SPY's return in 2011 (-0.08%) =$80 loss. My $70k is now worth $99,982

Total profit, about $30k. Subtract out my lease cost of $39k, and I paid about $9k for
“The Ultimate Driving Machine” over three years.

Let's see, you paid $70k and recouped a very, very generous 85%, despite residuals after three years being more like 50% (hey don’t believe me, believe AutoTrader.com). That means you lost $10,500 ($70k * 15%), or about the same as me. But, don't forget you paid full sales tax, which I think is 4.5%. So, let’s see, 4.5% sales tax = $3,150 plus the $10,500 = $13,650. So, $4k more than me?

Now, had you sold the car for a more realistic $40k (haggle with me on this if you want, it doesn’t matter), which is still generous but realistic, you lost $30k plus your tax of $3,150, which is $33k and change, or $20k more than me.

But, let’s say I made those lease payments up front (which I didn’t) and they didn’t compound as above, making me half the profit. I’d miss out on $16k in profit or so. So, I lose my original $9k plus $16K = $25k. Even in this scenario you paid $8k more.

Ok, ok, to be even more fair, let’s say having the M3 got me some serious ass over three years. That’d eat up my $8k and then some, but at least I’d have a smile on my face and “The Ultimate Driving Machine”.

Ouch.

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

You're in investments and don't know what I mean by buying Greek debt? The haircuts on that are worse than MG Global stock (not really, just being dramatic).

By all means, check me if you'd like. I could be wildly, incredibly, hideously wrong. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll admit it. But if you're wrong, quit your day job.

Ok first of all those returns you listed are not likely to re-occur.

Assume an average return compounded for 3 yrs on $70K is more likely in the $10-$15K range

$40K on your lease thats a complete sunk cost

When you are doing an all cash deal on a car your negotiating power is greater..and I actually got my 2011 at wholesale $54K w 4K miles (Sticker MSRP $69k)

Worst case scenario depreciation for 3yrs...say 30% (and this is really alot I expect to recoupe alot more back due to condition and mileage)..I estimate after 3 yrs I can get 40-$45K no problem

So at the end of three yrs..you spent $40K as you can see I estimated cap gains on $70K ..in reality it should be $54K b/c this is what I spent...still I will leave it at $70K..so if you calculate all:

I lost ~$10-15K in depreciation and lost another $10K in cap gains..so say $20 -25K total
You spent $40K on you lease

And I dont have to worry about end of lease date or answering to a finance company..I sell the car at my lesiure.

It really all boils down to having the capital reserves..nothing wrong with it if you dont and choose to go another route my only point was to state my method saves money in the long run

[S65V8]

OP - congrats and everything I've read in consumer reports, c/d long term reviews, and other 3rd party reports say this M3 is as solid as a rock reliable. If you got a CPO one, even better. Mine's got 34k and going strong. Maintenance is key, and keeping up with oil changes and the like will ensure she runs like a champ into her 100s...Happy MMming!

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Ha he probably has one of those, too, as his commuter car, at which point, add that cost to my math above.

Ofcourse I do...Its okay...amazing the hate here.. yes I have another car a 93 eagle talon..that I work on myself..simple basic 5speed that makes 30mpg..bought for $2500 10 yrs ago..parts are practically free and cosmetically I could give a shit about it.

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Ok first of all those returns you listed are not likely to re-occur.

Assume an average return compounded for 3 yrs on $75K is more likely in the $10-$15K range

$40K on your lease thats a complete sunk cost

Now keep in mind when you are doing an all cash deal on a car your negotiating power is greater..and I actually got my 2011 at wholesale $54K (Sticker MSRP $69k)

Now mileage will be extremely low on the car, as well as excellent condition..worst case scenario depreciation for 3yrs...say 30% (and this is really alot I expect to recoupe alot more back due to condition)..I estimate after 3 yrs I can get $45K no problem thats roughly $10K

So at the end of three yrs..you spent $25K ($40K less $15K capital gains)...I spent $10K..and I dont have to worry about end of lease date or answering to a finance company..I sell the car at my lesiure.

It really all boils down to having the capital reserves..nothing wrong with it if you dont and choose to go another route my only point was to state my method saves money in the long run

You're scaring me. Are you really in investments? Tell me what you're buying, because I need to short it immediately.

Unlikely to reoccur or not, it's reality for me. Sweet! Alright, I'll play ball anyway. Lets assume the annualized rate of return for the S&P is around 8%. And no, I'm not paying capital gains because I'm not selling (You're not selling, right? The market is up, you see). And, yes, my lease payments are "sunk" just like your depreciation ($10k).

Ok, ok - scenario one, I pay $40k and make $18k in the market (on $70k), so I lose $22k, Scenario two, I pay $40k and make only $10k in the market (on $36k), so I lose $30k. Ouch and OUCH, right? I lose $10k and $20k more than you, over three years, right? Well, then I paid $500-800/month to rent my mode of transportation, which I needed anyway, when people are paying much, much more to finance. And its an M3, which is a pretty awesome rental if you ask me (but you're not asking me, you're the expert).

And, yeah, you should be concerned about hate. You just tried to compare apples to apples when really you're an orange because you bought at a significant discount. So, you cannot compare yourself to others that cannot buy wholesale, which most cannot, especially when you're trying to make the argument your method is better financially (sure, only to you, but you didn't disclose that). Clients get sold and burned by managers like you (?!) promising false, hypothetical returns all the time. No wonder this dude hates you:

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

You're the exact kind of financial advisor I avoid. If you think there's a one-size-fits-all package then you're delusional.