Took a Porsche 911 out today, God I love my M3

[JFWM3]

I could not agree more with Scott, with the amount you save you can:
- mod the m3
- get a dedicated track car
- take a trip to Vegas
- buy the RH Aviator Wing desk
- and even have money left over for a Snuggie

[JFWM3]

Originally Posted by JFWM3

The 911GT3 doesn't count, it's like comparing apples and oranges, and costs a lot more.

I am sure the 911S, which is not bread from pure sports car heritage by the way, is a better track car, and I am sure it is better on the autobahn. But most cars get on the track less than 1% of the time, and we don't have an autobahn in my area. So even if there is dispute on responsiveness and involvement, it is about $/performance.

My numbers may be off a little, but I will put it in a "it's all math" context.

Option 1
'10 Porsche 911s $75,000
Total $75,000


Option 2
'10 BMW M3 $45,000
M3 Mods (brakes, suspension, exhaust etc) $10,000
Dedicated track car (let's say a Skylline, but you pick) $12,000
Vegas weekend (not quite a hangover w/e, but hey) $ 5,000
Resoration Hardware Aviator Wing desk (I like to decorate) $ 2,980
Snuggie (why not) $ 20
Total $75,000

I'll take option 2.

As noted above!!

[bernpep]

Originally Posted by mashoutposse

The E92 is better than a 997 non-GT3/Turbo.

The 991 is better than the E92.

"Regular" 911s have never impressed me until the 991. My thoughts after driving one hard - "What the heck will the 991 GT3 be like?!" I was genuinely wowed.

Anyone trying to rationalize an E92 over the 991 as a performance machine for any reason other than cost is kidding him/herself. 991 is noticeably better than the now-outgoing M3.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bernpep]

Originally Posted by Brucewonder

some M3 owners are delusional. Like how honda guys say they can smoke anything on the road. prosche is in a different league....

Another person with sense!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by bernpep

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree on 991.

But 997.2S and GTS are certainly better than the e92 in every regard performance and handling wise.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by JFWM3

Option 2
'10 BMW M3 $45,000
M3 Mods (brakes, suspension, exhaust etc) $10,000
Dedicated track car (let's say a Skylline, but you pick) $12,000
Vegas weekend (not quite a hangover w/e, but hey) $ 5,000
Resoration Hardware Aviator Wing desk (I like to decorate) $ 2,880
Snuggie (why not) $ 20
Total $75,000

I'll take option 2.

Please provide the number of your mod shop because I don't know how you could possibly upgrade the brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc., to a comparable level for just $10,000.

[KKM3]

The 991 c2s is over priced. The way I wanted, with sport exhaust, all the performance options, the car came out to be 125k!!! For a run of the mill Porsche that you see in very corner. That's super car money. Porsche is my favorite brand but if I'm gonna pay super car money I might as well buy a super car and not a car you see everywhere (especially in southern Cali).

[JFWM3]

Originally Posted by okusa

Please provide the number of your mod shop because I don't know how you could possibly upgrade the brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc., to a comparable level for just $10,000.

I am assuming decent used parts. Check the private classifieds.

Brakes $4,500
Akra Evo $4,000
K3 $1,500
Total $10,000


If you want to spend a little more take it out of the budget somewhere else, there is lots to play with.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by JFWM3

I am assuming decent used parts. Check the private classifieds.

Brakes $4,500
Akra Evo $4,000
K3 $1,500
Total $10,000


If you want to spend a little more take it out of the budget somewhere else, there is lots to play with.

In no way will that match a 997.2s. Plus, apparently installation is free?

Not to mention your market value on the m3 is unrealistic.

The 911 chassis is dynamically superior, as is the fact that it weighs 500 lbs less than an m3.

It's a different car, and a differnt class of car.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

In no way will that match a 997.2s. Plus, apparently installation is free?

The 911 chassis is dynamically superior, as is the fact that it weighs 500 lbs less than an m3.

It's a different car, and a different class of car.

My point exactly. Also, K3? Seriously??? You would at least have to go JRZ Pro.

[JFWM3]

Originally Posted by okusa

My point exactly. Also, K3? Seriously??? You would at least have to go JRZ Pro.

Missing the point. Agreed, there are a lot better choices than K3. Mod as you like, but the fact is you will spend less than a 911, and have money left over. You will likely have enough leftover money to get an inexpensive dedicated track car that you don't have to worry about and that provides a lot of fun.

It's $/performance.

I think there is some "Porsche Euphoria" that is driven by history, the equity in the brand and exclusivity. It is a great car. But not the best for $/performance.

Maybe Porsche guys just aren't good at math!

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by KKM3

The 991 c2s is over priced. The way I wanted, with sport exhaust, all the performance options, the car came out to be 125k!!! For a run of the mill Porsche that you see in very corner. That's super car money. Porsche is my favorite brand but if I'm gonna pay super car money I might as well buy a super car and not a car you see everywhere (especially in southern Cali).

Super car money in 1985 maybe.

[Brosef]

guys, we're comparing apples and oranges here. the 911 is a sports car, the M3 is a very sporty sedan that's a ton of fun to hustle around a track. the M3 wasn't meant to compete with the 911 - it just happens to have been a huge embarassment that when the e92 came out in 2007/8, it basically matched the performance of the 997.1 carrera s and beat the performance of the carrera, all while being able to fit 4 passengers comfortably and with trunk space to boot.

the 911 has had two performance iterations since then - the 997.2 and now the 991. both are better performers if you're talking any kind of measurable performance criteria in the hands of a pro driver. however, let's not forget how dated the M3's design is here though relative to the 997.2 and more significantly the 991.

here's the thing most 911 fanboys (not gonna name names) omit though - the beauty of the M3 is in its balance. not balance in terms of just its practicality, but in the way that it handles. it's a very neutral handling car. one that inspires confidence and teases every drive to push the limits of their driving capabilities. the thing I've always disliked about 911's (including my 997 C2S), is that while they have better mechanical grip, they're extremely unforgiving. the moment you disrespect that car, it will put you off the road without giving you a second chance. some people praise the car for this saying "it's a driver's car, you have to be a great driver to exploit its capabilities". well, I think I'm in like-minded company here in the M3 community when I say that I'm very unimpressed by a car whose snap-oversteer tendencies scare most drivers from ever exploring the limits of what it can actually do. it's much more difficult to design a car that is balanced and inspires confidence when driving it. BMW wasn't trying to make the M3 match the capabilities of a 911. if they cared so much about lap times, they would have fit much bigger rubber on the M3 to increase its grip. instead, they chose to fit the chassis with enough rubber to scoot around corners quickly, but also allow drivers to have some fun and push the limits without making things too dangerous.

it's similar to the previous point made here of "do you want to drive a fast car slow, or a slow car fast?"

I've loved 911's since I first rode in one, but between the astronomical premium Porsche charges for them, all of the practical sacrifices that have to be made (relative to my personal to my needs), and their unforgiving handling characteristics (despite how fast they are), I'll stick with the M3. I'm much more impressed by how much of a sweetheart the M3 is to drive.

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by robotk

Super car money in 1985 maybe.

I got my 1 year old r8 v10 for 125k almost brand new at the time.

[okusa]

Agreed. I have ZERO interest in the p-car. Just pointing out that there's not a lot of track performance in a K3.

Originally Posted by JFWM3

Missing the point. Agreed, there are a lot better choices than K3. Mod as you like, but the fact is you will spend less than a 911, and have money left over. You will likely have enough leftover money to get an inexpensive dedicated track car that you don't have to worry about and that provides a lot of fun.

It's $/performance.

I think there is some "Porsche Euphoria" that is driven by history, the equity in the brand and exclusivity. It is a great car. But not the best for $/performance.

Maybe Porsche guys just aren't good at math!

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by KKM3

I got my 1 year old r8 v10 for 125k almost brand new at the time.

I was referring to new, of course, but well done. An r8 v10 blows a 991 out.

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by KKM3

The 991 c2s is over priced. The way I wanted, with sport exhaust, all the performance options, the car came out to be 125k!!! For a run of the mill Porsche that you see in very corner. That's super car money. Porsche is my favorite brand but if I'm gonna pay super car money I might as well buy a super car and not a car you see everywhere (especially in southern Cali).

$125K supercar money! Nice!!! I like to live where you live.

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

$125K supercar money! Nice!!! I like to live where you live.

No, please stay where you are. We are over populated here as it is.

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by robotk

I was referring to new, of course, but well done. An r8 v10 blows a 991 out.

Yeah, at the time I figured a 2011 r8 v10 was a better choice than an equally priced 2012 c2s. That v10 is ridiculous and is much more fun to drive than the Porsche. Plus the looks of the r8

No contest IMO. Anyone thinking of getting a c2s should really consider a slightly used r8 v10. I'm glad I didn't buy the 911.

[KKM3]

It was either the r8 or the c2s. I went for the r8 and never looked back.

[jeff2015]

Originally Posted by KKM3

It was either the r8 or the c2s. I went for the r8 and never looked back.

😃 Nice R8

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by ///M3coupee92

😃 Nice R8

Thanks man