Bearing swap done in Brisbane

[EarthboundMisfit]

Hi all,

Had the car in at Prestige and Performance today for a service. Was talking with Mike, and he mentioned that he recently did a bearing swap on an '07 M3. Similar to a recent YouTube clip from the USA, he dropped the sub-frame, dropped the oil pan, and swapped in fresh bearings and ARP bolts.

When I asked what condition the bearings were in, he said they were fine. The crank also looked fine. In his opinion, the bearings didn't need replacing.

The owner was doing this as a preventative exercise before installing a supercharger. Perhaps spurred in to action as a result of much debate on the topic on this forum?

Would be great to get the owner's thoughts if he is a member here.

Cheers,
H.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by EarthboundMisfit

Hi all,

Had the car in at Prestige and Performance today for a service. Was talking with Mike, and he mentioned that he recently did a bearing swap on an '07 M3. Similar to a recent YouTube clip from the USA, he dropped the sub-frame, dropped the oil pan, and swapped in fresh bearings and ARP bolts.

When I asked what condition the bearings were in, he said they were fine. The crank also looked fine. In his opinion, the bearings didn't need replacing.

The owner was doing this as a preventative exercise before installing a supercharger. Perhaps spurred in to action as a result of much debate on the topic on this forum?

Would be great to get the owner's thoughts if he is a member here.

Cheers,
H.

I think companies and vendors pushing superchargers are recommending bearing change probably because of the new bearing part # 702/703. If there is nothing wrong with the car it's a waste of $2500 for parts and labour.

If the bearings were bad he could have easily got BMW Australia involved and I am sure they would have replaced the bearings at their cost. But since the bearings were fine you cannot make a warranty claim.

I have an '07 with 43k km and I have no issue to date.

As mentioned by you, it's worthwhile getting the owner's views on this.

[ndau]

That was my car, I believe I was the first Mike had done for Bearings.

Vehicle: 2008 BMW M3, DCT (Australian - Maybe hotter weather)
Production Date: 11/08
Oil Used: TWS Motorsport 10W-60, no data provided on previous oil change
Mileage: ~16,XXX mi (27,000 Km)
Fuel: 93 Oct
Driving Habits: Mostly highway/street driving, no track use

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=321

In-depth details can be seen above (pictures). There was contamination on bearing 4 which you can feel your finger get caught on as you rub over it. There is also copper showing on the edge.

The other 7 bearings were absolutely fine which indicates my issue was not caused by wear and tear rather something else...

Am I glad I did it?
Absolutely and to be honest the cost was well worth it for me.

Hard to say when my car would have had serious issues, but the signs were clear it was going to happen at some point, maybe in another 100,000km but the process had started.

note the low km's on the car.

EDIT:
Missed second post, the reason I had not gone to BMW was simple, like many others BMW Australia claims to have no knowledge of this issue occurring ever although there has been 2 confirmed cases I am aware of. My car is out of warranty and my intended purpose was putting a supercharger on. I couldn't exactly go to BMW and ask them to check my bearings out of courtesy.

Also, so people can gage an understanding my labour for a charger + bearing replacement was around $2600. To do bearings alone it may be a waste but that price is very reasonable.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by ndau

That was my car, I believe I was the first Mike had done for Bearings.

Vehicle: 2008 BMW M3, DCT (Australian - Maybe hotter weather)
Production Date: 11/08
Oil Used: TWS Motorsport 10W-60, no data provided on previous oil change
Mileage: ~16,XXX mi (27,000 Km)
Fuel: 93 Oct
Driving Habits: Mostly highway/street driving, no track use

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=321

In-depth details can be seen above (pictures). There was contamination on bearing 4 which you can feel your finger get caught on as you rub over it. There is also copper showing on the edge.

The other 7 bearings were absolutely fine which indicates my issue was not caused by wear and tear rather something else...

Am I glad I did it?
Absolutely and to be honest the cost was well worth it for me.

Hard to say when my car would have had serious issues, but the signs were clear it was going to happen at some point, maybe in another 100,000km but the process had started.

note the low km's on the car.

EDIT:
Missed second post, the reason I had not gone to BMW was simple, like many others BMW Australia claims to have no knowledge of this issue occurring ever although there has been 2 confirmed cases I am aware of. My car is out of warranty and my intended purpose was putting a supercharger on. I couldn't exactly go to BMW and ask them to check my bearings out of courtesy.

Also, so people can gage an understanding my labour for a charger + bearing replacement was around $2600. To do bearings alone it may be a waste but that price is very reasonable.

what I meant was after you had opened the engine, if you found the anomaly as you did, you could have easily raised the issue with BMW. I had already discussed this with my service manager here, and if I had opened the engine for suspected bearing issue, and if no contamination or bearing issue was found, I would foot the bill and walk away. But if there was, then the dealership was prepared to escalate it further given the low kms. I am out of warranty too.

There is nothing like asking, and if BMW had said, you would have to just pay for the labour for the SC. Just putting it out there.

[ndau]

True,
I could have done things differently but didn't see the need. Even if I had taken it to BMW and they identified an issue and replaced the bearings I would not have the WPC treatment. In the same way it could of be great in my favour I was also at risk of paying there insanely high hourly labour rate for nothing, at which point the bearings must be replaced once opened, along with the bolts.

All shops I have spoken to recommended changing out the bearings so I had accounted for it in my budget.

I would be surprised to hear any dealer willing to 'check' your bearings on a hunch there's an issue. If that service is available to you, make use of it.

[jav_au]

Sorry to drag up an old thread however this seems to have some great info relating to my (potential) situation. First off I'd like to introduce myself as I am looking to purchase an E90 M3 in the near future and came across this great forum for the local Australian community. Kudos to you guys!

I am located in Brisbane and am keen to buy an E90 M3, the ones I am looking from vary from 2008 through 2010, however these stories of rod bearing failures are definitely scary! I actually went against purchasing any AMG with the m156 motor due to the prolific head bolt issue. This rod bearing issue seems to be just as scary!

I emailed Mike Weber (actually my current R32 golf gets serviced there) and he mentioned your car Earthbound and his opinion is that there hasn't been enough evidence to substantiate these claims that he has seen to date.

Do you know roughly how much it would cost to change just the bearings as preventative (I know your price actually included a S/C install so I am hoping I could get it done for sub $2k if possible)?

All these stories from the members from the states makes me quite weary and a little hesitant and of course I am trying to gather as much information as I can before dumping a whole wad of cash into this car. Also I will most likely be buying private sale as opposed from a stealer with warranty.

Does anybody know if BMW would likely come to the party for a car that throws a rod because of this after the warranty period? Would they only honour it if the car was serviced religiously at the dealer as opposed to independents?

It is a tough situation because I want to get my car serviced at Mike as I believe he will more than likely do a much better job on the M3 but then the fear lingers if the motor does go and the car is not being serviced by dealers that BMW will just shy away from it.

Any help much appreciated. And a special shout out to Dave (DaveDee) for all his excellent help as well, this is a great forum with awesome members.

Cheers,
Javed

Edit: Oh and I hate to ask this question (and will probably cringe from the answers) but what would the cost be for an engine rebuild/replace in case the motor does throw a rod?

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by jav_au

Sorry to drag up an old thread however this seems to have some great info relating to my (potential) situation. First off I'd like to introduce myself as I am looking to purchase an E90 M3 in the near future and came across this great forum for the local Australian community. Kudos to you guys!

I am located in Brisbane and am keen to buy an E90 M3, the ones I am looking from vary from 2008 through 2010, however these stories of rod bearing failures are definitely scary! I actually went against purchasing any AMG with the m156 motor due to the prolific head bolt issue. This rod bearing issue seems to be just as scary!

I emailed Mike Weber (actually my current R32 golf gets serviced there) and he mentioned your car Earthbound and his opinion is that there hasn't been enough evidence to substantiate these claims that he has seen to date.

Do you know roughly how much it would cost to change just the bearings as preventative (I know your price actually included a S/C install so I am hoping I could get it done for sub $2k if possible)?

All these stories from the members from the states makes me quite weary and a little hesitant and of course I am trying to gather as much information as I can before dumping a whole wad of cash into this car. Also I will most likely be buying private sale as opposed from a stealer with warranty.

Does anybody know if BMW would likely come to the party for a car that throws a rod because of this after the warranty period? Would they only honour it if the car was serviced religiously at the dealer as opposed to independents?

It is a tough situation because I want to get my car serviced at Mike as I believe he will more than likely do a much better job on the M3 but then the fear lingers if the motor does go and the car is not being serviced by dealers that BMW will just shy away from it.

Any help much appreciated. And a special shout out to Dave (DaveDee) for all his excellent help as well, this is a great forum with awesome members.

Cheers,
Javed

Edit: Oh and I hate to ask this question (and will probably cringe from the answers) but what would the cost be for an engine rebuild/replace in case the motor does throw a rod?

I just had Mike totally rebuild my motor due to main bearings 1 +2 failure, they spun and destroyed the block. I was lucky enough that Mike found a motor totally in parts intended for a race motor. The cause of the bearings on 1+2 failure is known and will be the subject of a comprehensive post in the near future, suffice to say it is not related to any current equipment fitted to the car

My original rod bearings were removed and inspected and had worn to a stage they needed replacement, although failure was not imminent. Milage at this point was 70K

Harrop recommend and use VAC coated bearings which were used on my engine rebuild. Harrop have also conducted comprehensive testing of their own M3 where the original rod bearings were removed (with substantial degradation) and the VAC coated bearings were used as replacements. After tortuous testing on track and dyno of the TVS supercharger the engine was pulled down again for inspection and there was zero wear on the VAC bearings.

Supercharger manufacturers will and should recommend this procedure as the massive power gains with a SC fitted will put additional load on the crank and any such modification does demand a thorough inspection of engine health. Spending the 2K odd as insurance is a fraction of the price of replacing the block at worst. Because of the unique situation of large low down torque gains as well as around a 50% increase in power Harrop highly support this inspection and upgrade
Simon taking that precaution before fitting the SC at Mikes IMO was a very wise decision even given the low mileage of his car.

I guess what you have to ask is how you would treat your own health, if your medical condition was not known, would you go running a big marathon without a comprehensive checkup first?

I can and will say that Mike Weber at Prestige and Performance is as good as they come and is totally committed to delivering results without ripoffs, every car is individual and should be assessed as such and Mike has the skills and capability to do that.

If you are going to supercharge your car or drive it to the limits look at a rod bearing upgrade as cheap insurance

Having said all that, I don't know of any M3s that have had rod bearing failure in the normal daily drive scenario. For what we expect from our cars any preventative maintenance is cheap and will never amount to what race car preparation or life expectancy would be

[Azurite M5]

Your a wealth of knowledge Dave. When do you expect to have your car back?

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by Jerez M3

Your a wealth of knowledge Dave. When do you expect to have your car back?

Wow, what a nice thing to say, :-)

I picked the car up Thursday and it is just sensational, running it in now and today after so much enjoyment picked up a big tek screw in the tyre just after all the tyre shops closed!

Even though the running in process will take a while it's just such an amazing car. We are very lucky owning these!

[Azurite M5]

Sorry to hear about the puncture Dave, I'm sure it's spoiled your weekend.
Really look forward to catching up soon. While I don't plan on modding my car to the extent you have it's nice to know information is readily available on this forum. I've used Mike at Prestige and Performance several times in the past for KW suspension upgrades and have to say he is extremely professional.
Looking into Tunes as we speak and also like to put on some 20's and also looking at lowering options. KW sleeve kit seems the best option with EDC

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by Jerez M3

Sorry to hear about the puncture Dave, I'm sure it's spoiled your weekend.
Really look forward to catching up soon. While I don't plan on modding my car to the extent you have it's nice to know information is readily available on this forum. I've used Mike at Prestige and Performance several times in the past for KW suspension upgrades and have to say he is extremely professional.
Looking into Tunes as we speak and also like to put on some 20's and also looking at lowering options. KW sleeve kit seems the best option with EDC

Yes, looking forward to catching up at the slides and snags day! Any info you need with tuning, be glad to help if possible. I'm working in with Mike Benvo (BPM Sport) who is one of the most professional (and IT qualified) tuners in USA. He does stage 1 and 2 ECU and DCT tunes via an end user cable Mike is very popular here and is well known in the M3 community. Mike also does great coding which has some really big advantages.

20"s can be problematic with insurance as you can't get tyres with a load index rating that matches the tyre placard due to the lower profile. To comply you need to go to a 305 on the rear and a 265 on the front, and there is a risk of hitting even with aggressive offsets. Whilst 20"s look sensational there are insurance issues as they are non compliant. This won't matter at all unless you have an accident and get an insurance assessor that is looking for an out on the claim. The only possibility you have for insurance if you go down that path is Shannons

You had a great find with your car and a perfect blank canvas



KWs are awesome!

[MFKN3]

Originally Posted by jav_au

I am located in Brisbane and am keen to buy an E90 M3,

(actually my current R32 golf gets serviced there)

How does your husband like the R32?

BTW, good move going to an M3

[MFKN3]

Engine rebuild expect $10-30k depending on damage and rectification work. It's going to be hard sourcing blocks too, I'm not sure if they still make them.

BMW Australia won't cover bearing related issues post warranty, a couple people have tried and they don't care.
BMW NA don't seem to recognize it as an issue, but seem to at least replace most engines regardless of warranty, I suppose that's the large market power. Then there was all that weirdness with the US market ambiguously recommending a thinner oil, then retracted it, etc.

[jav_au]

Originally Posted by MFKN3

How does your husband like the R32?

BTW, good move going to an M3

Actually the R32 is a great little car. After test driving an E90 M3 i wasn't underwhelmed driving the VR6 in the slightest. The low down torque of the golf actually makes it a very usable and fun vehicle. Plus the Vr6 sounds much better than the new M3/4's (heard one go past today, that sound is just horrible).

But yes the M3 is in another league and I am excited to get into one.

It is unfortunate that BMW Aus don't seem to come to the party, I have heard of Mercedes coming to the party on the AMG vehicles that popped the head bolts as this was recognised as an issue in the states.

[jmo]

For anyone worried about bearings... there is a large thread over in the main M3 section with owners of high mileage 08' M3's reporting any issues...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682601

[EarthboundMisfit]

Originally Posted by DaveDee

Harrop recommend and use VAC coated bearings which were used on my engine rebuild. Harrop have also conducted comprehensive testing of their own M3 where the original rod bearings were removed (with substantial degradation) and the VAC coated bearings were used as replacements. After tortuous testing on track and dyno of the TVS supercharger the engine was pulled down again for inspection and there was zero wear on the VAC bearings.

Interesting. They used coated bearings in a stock motor? Did that motor have original clearances/tolerances? Would love to know more detail about that, and how much time/km's had elapsed when they inspected it.

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by EarthboundMisfit

Interesting. They used coated bearings in a stock motor? Did that motor have original clearances/tolerances? Would love to know more detail about that, and how much time/km's had elapsed when they inspected it.

The VAC coating is only microns thick and each installation is clearance checked.

[DaveDee]

Caught in time
These are a couple of bearings taken out of a Clients car at the Harrop Facility as a routine bearing swap when fitting a new Harrop TVS supercharger this week.
This is out of an 08 M3 with 50K on the clock