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View Poll Results: What influenced BMW USA's M3 pricing the most? | |||
KILL Lexus IS-F and AMG C63 and keep the segment to themselves | 39 | 25.32% | |
BMW 335i was such a good car, the M3 couldn't command a bigger premium | 18 | 11.69% | |
US Economy slowing down in 2008 | 27 | 17.53% | |
To hit the unit goal of 100,000 units, need to price the car to hit these volumes | 70 | 45.45% | |
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll |
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01-16-2008, 12:48 PM | #45 |
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Dude, the M6 is not overpriced at almost $100k, yes it is heavy at almost 4000lbs but it's still fast and handles very well. It is not ugly either, IMO. But that's subjective, beauty is in they eye of the beholder.
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01-16-2008, 01:33 PM | #46 | |
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Who in their right mind would pay 100,000 for a car. Do you know how many homeless people you could house for a year with that much money? I'm having a hard time justifying buying an M3 sedan as it is. Granted I guess you could also look at it as... im paying more taxes, driving the economy etc. but still that is 10 civics as opposed to the measley 5 civics I could buy with the m3. |
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01-16-2008, 01:49 PM | #48 | |
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01-16-2008, 02:30 PM | #49 | |
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Spoken like a true socialist. Go Hillary. gbb357, don't worry, I haven't had too much time today, I will get around to a response
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01-16-2008, 03:30 PM | #50 | |
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Feature 417 HP................................Yes 371 TQ................................Yes 2 Stage Intake System............Yes Oil Coolers.............................Yes Transmission Coolers................Yes High-Flow Oil Pump..................Yes 8-Speed Transmission..............Yes Brembo Brakes........................Yes BBS Rims................................Yes Sport Tuned Suspension...........Yes Gas Guzzler Tax.......................No |
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01-16-2008, 03:35 PM | #51 | |
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No worries.... I am not criticizing Burrito's observation.... I am from Kanada and we have similar socialist views. At least we are not as bad as Australia where they have a Luxury tax (I mean jealousy tax). Who cares about fuel economy? Read the threads on the M-DCT. We are having a debate where I am espousing the view that BMW made the wrong trade off for fuel economy vs. performance.
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01-16-2008, 03:39 PM | #52 | |
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thats why i dont drive them. |
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01-16-2008, 03:43 PM | #53 | |
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Last edited by gbb357; 01-16-2008 at 05:21 PM.. |
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01-16-2008, 05:08 PM | #54 | |
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Was IS-F pricing released? What was it? EDIT: Disregard...I found it. |
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01-16-2008, 05:40 PM | #55 |
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BTW Tbone, the reason i brought up the GGT is to point out to you that the engine on the ISF is pretty advance to be able to produced the performance it can and at the same time give decent gas mileage of 23+mpg average. Not to mention these features as well. Please don't make this a M3 vs ISF discussion. If your'e going to compare them that's fine, but leave it at that.
2 Stage Intake System............Yes Oil Coolers.............................Yes Transmission Coolers................Yes |
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01-16-2008, 06:45 PM | #56 | |
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IS350 - 3527 pounds curb weight - 52 / 48 : F / R weight distribution Source: http://autos.yahoo.com/lexus_is_350/ ISF - 3825 pounds curb weight - 54 / 46 : F / R weight distribution Source: Road and Track January 2008 So the BOAT ANCHOR of an engine + accessories added 300 pounds to the car and added more weight up front. When a great car company like BMW went from the the S54 I6 engine, to the S65 V8, it actually REDUCED the weight of the engine and output more power. Also when a car company is proud of their engine, they release specs.....Apparently Toyota doesn't want too much focus on the LS460 / LS600 engine derivative.... When the engine awards come out, I am pretty sure the ISF engine won't be there. I am willing to bet the S85 V10 or the S65 V8 will win a few more awards this year. The LS7 is in there somewhere too BTW. There is NOTHING special about the ISF engine, it is just a spare part from Toyota's inventory. Hey let's go attack BMW's M3 with spare parts! Maybe we will get lucky like the Prius. There are your facts. Enjoy. Once the ISF engine releases the weight, I will be sure to find this thread an post it.
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01-16-2008, 06:55 PM | #57 | |
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^+1
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2013 E92 M3 Individual Sold: 2011 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Into a Wall: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2007 E92 335i JB |
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01-16-2008, 07:14 PM | #58 | |
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After all that time you made me wait the best answer you can come up with is "Lexus sucks". You just prove that the engine is heavy? BTW, those 300lbs is not all from the engine, don't forget the ugly ass hood and the exhaust system as well. When i asked for specs, i mean come up with an actual spec on how heavy the engine is and the engine of a competition, does'nt matter which one pick any of them. That does'nt prove that it's not technologically advance either. I just showed to you that despite it's weight and bigger displacement, it's advanced enough to avoid the gas guzzler tax and deliver the same performance as the competition. You really have a serious comprehension problem. So having a heavy engine means it's not technologically advanced, it's weak, and it's non-stellar. I guess you did'nt bother reading my post. I'll post it again for you buddy.
It's also going to be featured in Popular Mechanics as their "Tech Breakout Car" in Jan. issue. Feature 417 HP................................Yes 371 TQ................................Yes 2 Stage Intake System............Yes Oil Coolers.............................Yes Transmission Coolers................Yes High-Flow Oil Pump..................Yes 8-Speed Transmission..............Yes Brembo Brakes........................Yes BBS Rims................................Yes Sport Tuned Suspension...........Yes Gas Guzzler Tax.......................No BTW, you still have'nt answered this post either. C'mon, stop avoiding it and come up with some explanation. I know you're just going to say "i don't care". Don't be scared. Quote:
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01-16-2008, 07:30 PM | #59 |
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01-16-2008, 07:35 PM | #61 | |
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Why don't you enlighten us with ISF engine specs instead of the checklist that you keep putting up? I just gave you data that the boat anchor weighs the front end down and the car is 300 pounds more than the IS350. Is the full 300 pounds attributable to the engine? No... But probably 100-150 pounds. Again, BMW reduced weight and added power going from an I6 to a V8. These are the facts. Yes, a high-flow oil pump makes the ISF engine HAWT. Wow, transmission coolers, Toyota really pulled a fast one on BMW. You come and spam a BMW board http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...91&postcount=1 and you expected a friendly response? Lexus will be lucky to sell the 3000 they have slated for production. On the AM engines....you are right, I don't care, I haven't read up on them because it is of no interest to me like the Prius. Keep asking all you want, it will be the same answer.
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01-16-2008, 07:42 PM | #62 |
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Read the whole thread, I was describing all the characteristics of the LS7 and fuel economy is good....but it would not influence my buying decision. gbb357 insists that I am self-contradicting..... In my private world, some factors how I evaluate an engine:
Clear as mud?
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01-16-2008, 07:43 PM | #63 | |
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So basically you don't have an answer and you where just trolling and it back fired. Got it, nice way to raise the white flag. Just in case you missed this post because you have a habit of doing that in purpose, let me post it again. Another beautiful example of your classic contradiction.
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01-16-2008, 07:50 PM | #64 |
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BTW, what you call spamming, in the internet world, it's called starting a thread. In Lexus forums, i post about BMW's all the time and give them high praises. As a matter of fact i'm one of the few that defends them all the time from haters and ignorants like you. I don't expect anything, but i surely don't expect idiots like you trolling just because another member just happen to like another brand besides BMW. You do realize that i'm not the only one here that likes other brands besides BMW and drives other cars besides BMW. If you did'nt started trolling to begin with, this would've never happened. But then again, this is the internet.
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01-16-2008, 07:54 PM | #65 | |
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No, with the available data, you must infer the engine's weight (which assumes a measure of intelligence). 300 pound weight gain from IS350 to ISF. Engine alone probably weighs 100-150 more. Benchmark is BMW going from I6 to V8, delivering more power at less weight. Lexus fails to make the mark. I just don't think you get it or you choose to obfuscate the issue by redirection. On the Gas Guzzler tax, it is more attribuate to the 8speed slushbox than anything else. Feel free to keep spamming here. Absorb the data and understand that Lexus makes spare parts boat anchors to compete against thorougbreds..... Better luck next time Lexus.....come again with a real car.
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01-16-2008, 08:02 PM | #66 | |
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