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08-01-2012, 03:59 PM | #23 |
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Again, my car is non-EDC and I haven't noticed an issue with body roll even when I was running conti scrubs. I did have the usual outer tire wear on the front tires from a lack of camber.
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08-01-2012, 04:43 PM | #24 |
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08-01-2012, 05:34 PM | #25 | ||
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Gearhead seemed to think so....
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Obviously the thread title is subjective as "too much" is up to interpretation. But I thought it was interesting that something causes a ZCP EDC M3 to lean less than a non-ZCP EDC M3 (according to posts). Therefore, if the OP is unhappy with the body roll his M3 is exhibiting, it would be good to identify why the ZCP is better and suggest those. My understanding is that the ZCP does not have different sway bars. I agree that coilovers are a fix. Are springs enough/do they make a noticeable impact? And the suggestions re driving style are certainly relevant as that can definitely have an impact
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08-01-2012, 05:38 PM | #26 |
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ZCP springs are ~.5" shorter. Not a huge deal. Yes, lowering springs reduce body roll somewhat.
IMO it would be kind of dumb to buy ZCP pieces when you can get aftermarket stuff for the same price or less that will make an even bigger difference. My 2c. |
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08-01-2012, 05:49 PM | #27 | ||
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2008 BMW e92 M3, 6MT, MR/FR, NT-03+M 18x10, JIC Coilovers 2007 Yamaha R6 M-drive retrofit! http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676825 |
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08-01-2012, 06:09 PM | #29 |
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Dinan stage 2...which doesn't make much of a difference if you ask me...
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08-01-2012, 06:20 PM | #30 |
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'09 - stock suspension. Lean much?
Hopefully, a large box that's just arrived from Holland will take care of this nagging issue.....Getting installed tomorrow! |
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08-01-2012, 07:13 PM | #31 |
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I accept the driver input comments and do think it's my issue. Looking at pics, my car is similar to the above. That's the frustrating part , and where I know I need to improve.
The car is heavy, though. I'll get a link to a vid tonight, an hope criticism is in order! |
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08-01-2012, 10:44 PM | #32 |
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08-01-2012, 11:08 PM | #33 |
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hehe now there's an award I never wanted!
Yes, the car is EDC and it was set to it's maximum setting of two orange lights in this pic. (This was at LVMS during the most recent MFest. This turn is flat. The car just leans like crazy. It's especially bad when going through multiple esses. The quick weight transitions back and forth are not a great experience.) Anyway, tomorrow a JRZ RS Pro setup is being installed. I am quite excited. |
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08-01-2012, 11:59 PM | #34 | |
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08-02-2012, 05:43 AM | #35 |
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First, to answer OP question, I have a non-ZCP with EDC car and it does roll, but I find it pretty manageable at the track. The M3 is an awsome all rounder . But it does need camber plates to manage tire wear.
As far as the comments about EDC setting and roll, I am reading quite a few misconceptions: damper stiffness does not have an impact on steady state roll. By definition, dampers need movement to exercise force, so once settled, the dampers are not resisting roll. So regardless if you are using comfort or sport, once settled, the amount of roll will be the same. The difference lies in the transition, where a stiffer damper setting will resist the roll transition more and make the car react quicker while it is taking its set. I can see how ZCP can make a significant difference on roll. First the lower ride height reduces the height of the CG thus reducing the weight transfer during cornering. Second, the higher spring rate directly contributes to resist steady state roll. The same logic applies to aftermarket springs or coilovers. So if you want to reduce roll, I would recommend lowering/stiffer springs. IMO stiffer ARB may make the car jumpy on bumpy surfaces. Last edited by CanAutM3; 08-02-2012 at 07:21 AM.. |
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08-02-2012, 06:16 AM | #36 |
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Isn't the car going from flat to tilted in a corner a "roll transition", so by your description, the shocks are resisting the roll that the OP is talking about? Doesn't the EDC react to the weight transition, slow the compression of the spring and like a good lover push back? I am not sure what you mean by steady state roll...is this the position when the car is at its maximum load/tilt for the corner?
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08-02-2012, 06:30 AM | #37 | |
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Stiffer dampers will increase the time it takes for the car to roll, but ultimately it will roll just as much in a corner. The only exception is in very quick side to side transitions where the car does not have time to take a set, stiffer dampers will reduce roll there. But this is not steady state . It the vast majority of corners there is plenty of time for the car to settle. |
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08-02-2012, 07:01 AM | #38 |
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In playing with our E30 racecar many years ago we found that playing with spring rates had a much more positive effect on handling than just increasing roll stiffness by changing bars.Having more roll stiffness will increase wheel lift on transitions.The big issue in changing spring rates is to to have enough damping adjustment range to work with a stiffer spring rate.Everything has to work together to handle properly.
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08-02-2012, 07:41 AM | #39 | |
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Dogbone: Awesome choice in dampers. JRZ makes nice stuff. I think JRZ, moton SS, and KW CS are the best dampers for under $5k (possibly in that order as well). |
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08-02-2012, 08:40 AM | #40 |
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Nothing wrong with some body roll as long as you aren't screwing up the tire, in general you want the car to be as soft as possible with the limiting factors being good tire wear and good transition behavior. Stock spring rates on just about every car ever made fall short of where they need to be to take care of the tires, but compliance is very important
Looks like your new car understeers more
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08-02-2012, 08:49 AM | #41 | |
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An interesting side note in all of this -- I've also been told by someone who is qualified to talk about these things, that the stock suspension can't provide enough grip for the Hankook R-S3 tires I've been running at the track. I found that comment interesting. Anyway, I'm fascinated to see how the suspension affects the car and my driving at the track. I wonder how long it will take to get used to the different feel of the car. Aug 11 is the first track day with the new setup. Buttonwillow is as challenging a place as any to put a new suspension to the test. You're ALWAYS in transition at that dang track. As far as craftsmanship, these JRZ's look impressive. The JRZ thrust bearings are beefy! Here's a pic of the top of the front shock assembled with the GC race plates. JRZ thrust bearing and spring. I've also got a tender spring below the main spring. Today should be an exciting day! |
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08-02-2012, 08:53 AM | #42 |
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Qualified or not, that makes no sense at all.
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08-02-2012, 08:59 AM | #43 |
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08-02-2012, 09:00 AM | #44 | |
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