Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by foolio2

My dealer said this was the first M3 they did an engine replacement on. They're usually pretty upfront with information too. Of course, Indianapolis is a smaller M market compared to other cities. I also asked about whether or not they disassembled the bottom end. He said they didn't. They just send it back to BMW. However, he did say they drained the oil and he said they found metal shavings in it. I don't know if that means they tested it and found metal or it was actually visible. Also, he said that they rarely hear back from BMW about what the problems are. So, I may never know. At least I get my car back tomorrow. Two and a half week turnaround I guess isn't that bad.

How do we know this was bearings and not something else? I think we point to bearings pretty often because that's a real concern that we're all keenly aware of. But really, with 6700 miles it seems like something else could have been amiss here as well, right?

[foolio2]

Originally Posted by Rupes

How do we know this was bearings and not something else? I think we point to bearings pretty often because that's a real concern that we're all keenly aware of. But really, with 6700 miles it seems like something else could have been amiss here as well, right?

You know, you're right. It's hard to say. I am pretty sure that Sound was a rod knock and that is often the culprit of bearings.

[Helmsman]

God knows mate. So the good old mess about's between RG and Swamp is over for now... But much worse, RG's technical input on our S65'!

[rgoose18]

This is a great thread. May just buy that extended warranty I've been eyeing after all

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by tdott

I'm curious, has there been any cases were they heard rob knock/noise and they were able to replace the bearings before it got to bad and the engine/crank/rods/etc was fine?

or is the very presence of rod knock/noise too late and the crank has to come out for a full bottom end rebuild?

It was most likely the rotating assembly, there are very few other things that would cause that kind of noise in an engine. Sounds like most engines that I've heard with bearing knock.

Due to the known clearances in the S65 a bearing failure is highly likely!

[stubble88]

Originally Posted by foolio2

My dealer said this was the first M3 they did an engine replacement on. They're usually pretty upfront with information too. Of course, Indianapolis is a smaller M market compared to other cities. I also asked about whether or not they disassembled the bottom end. He said they didn't. They just send it back to BMW. However, he did say they drained the oil and he said they found metal shavings in it. I don't know if that means they tested it and found metal or it was actually visible. Also, he said that they rarely hear back from BMW about what the problems are. So, I may never know. At least I get my car back tomorrow. Two and a half week turnaround I guess isn't that bad.

I just bought my 2013 used with under 20k miles on it. it was a CPO but I negotiated that out for a $4k savings. I might have put 1k miles on it. Its at the dealer with a blown motor because of bearing failure. Warranty fully covering it. They also claim this is the first e92 M3 they have seen motor failure.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by stubble88

I just bought my 2013 used with under 20k miles on it. it was a CPO but I negotiated that out for a $4k savings. I might have put 1k miles on it. Its at the dealer with a blown motor because of bearing failure. Warranty fully covering it. They also claim this is the first e92 M3 they have seen motor failure.

Oh boy !
One with 6K miles and now you with 20K miles ,actualy new S65 engines !
It's realy unbelievable ?!?! Think it's time to yell and that all together....."HELLO BMW" !!! Who's next !!!.....I.... or you guys who are reading this ??? Who knows ???And that with our "Ultimate Driving Machine"
BS....My A$$ !!!
I said it on the previous page,still think it's a incorrect fitting and maybe even mounting problem with the bearing failures ,and that from the factory !
And not to forget....damn man feel realy sorry about your luck,but lucky to get a new S65 on warranty !
BTW....The brand calls BMW !So BMW how many more before to take action...the big recall,and when they do nothing i will never buy a BMW again!
Ohhh yes the new ones are out now,so they can forget the "old" S65 V8 5H1T !!!
But a customer who owned 3 BMW 's they have lost right now !!! > ME <

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Oh boy !
One with 6K miles and now you with 20K miles ,actualy new S65 engines !
It's realy unbelievable ?!?! Think it's time to yell and that all together....."HELLO BMW" !!! Who's next !!!.....I.... or you guys who are reading this ??? Who knows ???And that with our "Ultimate Driving Machine"
BS....My A$$ !!!
I said it on the previous page,still think it's a incorrect fitting and maybe even mounting problem with the bearing failures ,and that from the factory !
And not to forget....damn man feel realy sorry about your luck,but lucky to get a new S65 on warranty !
BTW....The brand calls BMW !So BMW how many more before to take action...the big recall,and when they do nothing i will never buy a BMW again!
Ohhh yes the new ones are out now,so they can forget the "old" S65 V8 5H1T !!!
But a customer who owned 3 BMW 's they have lost right now !!! > ME <

You know at the end of the model run they pulled some engines/parts out of storage that were built in 2007

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by dmk08

You know at the end of the model run they pulled some engines/parts out of storage that were built in 2007

No !
But it happens on built end of 2013 !"The last ones"man ! With 6K miles on it ,so it has nothing to do with built from 2007 or later !?!?
A question....
How do you feel when you step on it,and you are seeing 8000 rpm's ? And of what are you thinking or feeling at the same time ?

[stubble88]

its a new motor but not necessarily a great feeling. Ima lways going to be worried about it and will need to maintain a warranty.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by stubble88

its a new motor but not necessarily a great feeling. Ima lways going to be worried about it and will need to maintain a warranty.

Exactly !
So i will repeat.....Who's next ?

[TX]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Exactly !
So i will repeat.....Who's next ?

So I thought they fixed the bearing issue with the new bearings in the last few years of engines. What the f*** happened if you guys are blowing engines this late in production with SO FEW miles? I thought it was just us early guys that had problems. Maybe I don't need to feel so bad with my 09 engine after all??

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by TX

So I thought they fixed the bearing issue with the new bearings in the last few years of engines. What the f*** happened if you guys are blowing engines this late in production with SO FEW miles? I thought it was just us early guys that had problems. Maybe I don't need to feel so bad with my 09 engine after all??

Guys, sorry to say this ... I think break-in, driving style, fuel and all sorts of other things are contributing to this failure. S85 and S65 engine blow ups in Australia are hardly heard of. Yes, I know of two but not in the mainstream.

I probably have one of the early build cars - September '07 - and touchwood so far no issues with 44k km. I religiously warm up the car before I drive aggressively. And I drive aggressively every time. I have done two track days.

I don't even think about the bearing spinning or engine blowing. I will enjoy the car as long as possible. I have no plans to buy the new M3/M4.

I also think majority of the Australian owners pump RON 98 either BP, Caltex or Shell. So do the European owners.

There was an issue with the S54 big end bearing and BMW fixed it. If BMW is not proactively fixing it, then they don't see it being an issue.

Like pointed out in the other epic bearing thread that saw 97 pages and 2132 posts, there is no single issue for this failure. Yes, clearance is tighter than most super cars but it's only an assumption that it is causing the failure.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by TX

So I thought they fixed the bearing issue with the new bearings in the last few years of engines. What the f*** happened if you guys are blowing engines this late in production with SO FEW miles? I thought it was just us early guys that had problems. Maybe I don't need to feel so bad with my 09 engine after all??

The bearing clearance problem was never fixed. The new bearings are marginally thinner but with stack up of tolerance it is really no better. That and the fact they are harder just make matters worse. The harder the bearing the less forgiving it is. The engines that are going boom right off the bat (15k miles) are the ones that have been measured down at .0009 and such

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Like pointed out in the other epic bearing thread that saw 97 pages and 2132 posts, there is no single issue for this failure. Yes, clearance is tighter than most super cars but it's only an assumption that it is causing the failure.

Sorry but I am a engine builder for a professional race team and I disagree that it is a assumption. If there were more clearance this would not be happening. Warm up or not the factory must account for people not warmiong it up correctly and adjust main and rod clearances accordingly. It is a mass production car and the factory cant be so stupid as to say "if you have to pull out in traffic a few times and get on it you are going to blow the engine up" after all the manual says "do not let engine idle and warm up in the driveway" so then what are you supposed to do? Oh thats right if the clearance was .002 instead of all the way down to less than .001 then we would not have all these threads talking about it. We have already been over this part as well, will the egine run all day with .0009 clearance? Sure it will but not with 10-60, needs to be a 0-20 or 30. And that comes straight from the bearing manufacturer.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Sorry but I am a engine builder for a professional race team and I disagree that it is a assumption. If there were more clearance this would not be happening. Warm up or not the factory must account for people not warmiong it up correctly and adjust main and rod clearances accordingly. It is a mass production car and the factory cant be so stupid as to say "if you have to pull out in traffic a few times and get on it you are going to blow the engine up" after all the manual says "do not let engine idle and warm up in the driveway" so then what are you supposed to do? Oh thats right if the clearance was .002 instead of all the way down to less than .001 then we would not have all these threads talking about it. We have already been over this part as well, will the egine run all day with .0009 clearance? Sure it will but not with 10-60, needs to be a 0-20 or 30. And that comes straight from the bearing manufacturer.

I respect your claim. Then why is BMW staying silent about this ... what's the valid reason someone can think of?

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I respect your claim. Then why is BMW staying silent about this ... what's the valid reason someone can think of?

I dont know either.There have been multiple good will engine replacements at out local dealership. Even tuned engines are getting replaced. The only thing they are reluctant to replace is one that had a blower on it.
Quite a few head cheese were in our shop last fall including Ludwig Willisch (Bmw NA President) a few were asking questions about my m3 and what oil does it have in it and why. They were pin pointing questions that were way too specific to just be striking conversation. They know there is a problem but maybe they do not have enough parts to do a official recall. It is frustrating because it does make me consider selling the car, and I do not want to. Look how bull headed GM was over a stupid ignition switch, makes everyone look bad in the end.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I dont know either.There have been multiple good will engine replacements at out local dealership. Even tuned engines are getting replaced. The only thing they are reluctant to replace is one that had a blower on it.
Quite a few head cheese were in our shop last fall including Ludwig Willisch (Bmw NA President) a few were asking questions about my m3 and what oil does it have in it and why. They know there is a problem but maybe they do not have enough parts to do a official recall. It is frustrating because it does make me consider selling the car, and I do not want to. Look how bull headed GM was over a stupid ignition switch, makes everyone look bad in the end.

^
+1

My exact feeling.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I respect your claim. Then why is BMW staying silent about this ... what's the valid reason someone can think of?

Because it comes down to money. Look at what GM did with the ignition switch issue. I have been skeptical as well but the number of incidents being reported seems to be too high to contribute to expected failures for the number of cars produced. This is just a gut feeling and I have no data to show this but it seems that there is at least one failure each week. Quite high for the relatively small number of M3 owners on this forum.

Also, while I have not looked at other forums, I'll go out on a limb and venture to guess that not as many failures are being reported on other high performance cars (e.g. C63, Mustang, Vette, Audi, etc.).

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I dont know either.There have been multiple good will engine replacements at out local dealership. Even tuned engines are getting replaced. The only thing they are reluctant to replace is one that had a blower on it.
Quite a few head cheese were in our shop last fall including Ludwig Willisch (Bmw NA President) a few were asking questions about my m3 and what oil does it have in it and why. They were pin pointing questions that were way too specific to just be striking conversation. They know there is a problem but maybe they do not have enough parts to do a official recall. It is frustrating because it does make me consider selling the car, and I do not want to. Look how bull headed GM was over a stupid ignition switch, makes everyone look bad in the end.

So are you running 0w-40?

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by 330indy

So are you running 0w-40?

Yes

[aus]

BMW should at LEAST extend the warranty to 100,000 at a minimum. They extended the warranty in the N54 to 86,000 miles due to all the issues they had with it.