M3 engine Fails 45 minutes after purchase from dealer

[dtmpower98]

Hey guys,

So I need to clarify that it was not a BMW dealer. I bought a clean E92 M3 from a dealer in Los Angeles where I live. This car is clean as F***. The car has around 44k miles on it. All the carbon fiber goodies on the exterior from Arkym including the hood, trunk, and diffuser (I believe). The interior had the two tone red and black with carbon trim (including handbrake) and the BMW M-performance alcantara steering wheel as well. The car also happened to come with a full cat-back exhaust system by Mevius as well as a AFE carbon fiber intake. The vehicle was said to never have been tuned but it was a little hard to believe with so many after market modifications. I test drove the M3 before buying it made sure everything worked properly. I turned everything off and did pulls from first to second and into third on the test drive and everything felt amazing. So I got a PPI done at a BMW dealership and I was very quick to speak to the mechanic who would be inspecting my vehicle before and after he was done before he spoke to anyone from the used vehicle dealership I purchased the M3 at. The mechanic told me it fully checked out and everything was totally good, and, "if he were me he would buy it". So with the "green light" from BMW I went to the dealership with my dad and bought the vehicle. I drove the car out of the dealership with my friend on the highway for about 25 minutes. I was sure to let my M3 warm up at the dealership for like 20 minutes before I drove it home. I was gentle on the freeway but I did do a couple pulls as anyone would with their new M3. It was nothing to hard on the engine tho. I went to a exhaust shop that I have brought multiple cars too and swapped in the stock X pipe with some test pipes that were the same diameter as the stock ones. I got no check engine light when I turned her on and it was all good. I drove the car maybe another 20 minutes to my apartment in town. A couple of my buddies that I live with all followed me in their cars (Evo X & F80 M3) to my house in Malibu. I was on the freeway and I was in traffic going maybe 15 mph and my buddy was next to me in his car I was in second down shifted in first which was at like 3200 rpm. I did a small pull to like 6,500rpm and shifted into second and when I shifted the car turned off and rolled into neutral. I pulled it over and stopped the car. I turned it off and tried turning it back on but all that it did was make a click noise I believe from the ignition but did not turn. The electronics worked fine and I crossed out the idea of actuator because it didn't even respond to a jump. It was put on a flat bed and towed to the nearest BMW dealer assuming it might be something with the ECU freaking out with exhaust related malfunctions due to the deletion of cats. I soon found out when they tried to turn it over manually the engine did not crank. It was seized up they said. It was throwing no codes on the computers or anything. I didn't think it could be rod bearing related as it was driving beautifully before it shut down. There was no ticks, the idle was smooth and steady, and there was definitely no knocking noises. The car felt like it did when I test drove it at the dealer and then all of a sudden it shuts off. When I purchased the car the dealer stated on the warranty that everything on the car besides the exhaust because that was aftermarket. The warranty went on to show the engine, transmission, and drivetrain warranty of 30 days or 1,000 miles. The dealer I got it from is a really nice guy and he has paid for the tow trucks and inspections. He wanted to take the car and look at it at his shop as he has a friend who is a BMW tech and was going to work on it, he also noted they would diagnose the problem there and fix it once they did. They have been very responsive with me and have been taking care of this as fast as possible. There mechanic found that there was no metal in the oil so they are going more in depth. Do any of you know what the heck is going on?

Please help!

[roastbeef]

well that sucks. its not the ecu "reacting" to the lack of catalysts, these cars do fine without them.
keep us posted.

[romemmy]

Clutching at straws, but maybe a transmission issue? If it literally just turned off, and purely guessing, maybe the transmission seized and stopped the engine from turning. It would be unusual, but the only other reason an engine seizes is typically due to major bearing issues, catastrophic rod issues, or maybe hydrolock. Usually most issues will make themselves known before the seizing part (noise, smoke, oil on the ground, etc), which is why I’m pointing at the transmission.

I’m assuming it’s a DCT?

Thanks!

S.

[dtmpower98]

Originally Posted by romemmy

Clutching at straws, but maybe a transmission issue? If it literally just turned off, and purely guessing, maybe the transmission seized and stopped the engine from turning. It would be unusual, but the only other reason an engine seizes is typically due to major bearing issues, catastrophic rod issues, or maybe hydrolock. Usually most issues will make themselves known before the seizing part (noise, smoke, oil on the ground, etc), which is why IÂ’m pointing at the transmission.

IÂ’m assuming itÂ’s a DCT?

Thanks!

S.

Yeah its a DCT. Not one spot of oil or fluids on the ground.

[kyrix1st]

Lesson learned: get a manual

[Solo_M_Tech]

Sucks.

PPI can't detect a failing bearing issue. Getting a PPI is for the simple things, brakes, suspension, oil leaks etc.

I haven't seen this DCT fail or "lock up" to the point you couldn't turn the engine. You can manually lock the dct in neutral with a zip tie and then retest the manual engine crank. If the engine still doesn't turn, she's toast.

Get a lawyer.

[Aktavate]

Unfortunate but sounds like the dealer is willing to take care of it, hopefully more of just a hassle for you than anything else.

[Transfer]

Sounds like it was a silent timebomb and it happened to you after purchase and not on some test drive. Hopefully the dealer sticks to their policies and makes it right. I do wonder if the business cost to the dealer is more now to deal with it than if it had failed while in their inventory. If they do make it right, post up the dealership to give them huge kudos.

[are0lies]

Originally Posted by Aktavate

Unfortunate but sounds like the dealer is willing to take care of it, hopefully more of just a hassle for you than anything else.

This. As long as he has that warranty, which expresses the 1,000 mile guaranty, it's the dealer's problem. They will probably just choose to buy it back, than put a new engine in.

[dtmpower98]

Got an Update- the crank hub broke, and it was the crank that was seized, potentially due to poor lubrication/maintenance by the prior owner. They said it would be around a 14 day repair, and an extended warranty would be included into the repair by the third party dealer. The dealer offered to buy back the car, and the manager was quite embarrassed the car did this after they ensured it was maintained well. Do you guys think I should proceed with the purchase? The dealer has not cashed my check yet, as he wants to ensure my satisfaction of the sale.

[Z K]

It is most likely caused by rod bearings. They usually seize completely randomly. There are many cases where it just seizes with no sign beforehand. My friend's rod bearings seized while idling in a parking lot - the car just shut off and would not turn back on. Dealer found the crank seized and the engine was replaced under warranty luckily.

It may or may not be related to previous owner maintenance but I doubt that is the case.

If the dealer is willing to pay for a new engine replacement, it should be fine to purchase. Otherwise walk away. An engine will cost $10-20k for a used engine replacement.

If you do go through and get an M3 - replace the rod bearings. It is a known issue on these cars.

[Transfer]

I'm ignorant but what is the crank spur? So how did they diagnose this and what is their fix? Replace the crank? If the crank seized up that can't be good overall and I would also question the RBs or mains. Any extended warranty is probably only good for the repair made so would be careful about that.

[dtmpower98]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I'm ignorant but what is the crank spur? So how did they diagnose this and what is their fix? Replace the crank? If the crank seized up that can't be good overall and I would also question the RBs or mains. Any extended warranty is probably only good for the repair made so would be careful about that.

Crank hub i meant

[Bartledoo]

Never heard of a crank hub issue on an S65. I'd find another car.

[drrust]

Originally Posted by Z K

It is most likely caused by rod bearings. They usually seize completely randomly. There are many cases where it just seizes with no sign beforehand. My friend's rod bearings seized while idling in a parking lot - the car just shut off and would not turn back on. Dealer found the crank seized and the engine was replaced under warranty luckily.

It may or may not be related to previous owner maintenance but I doubt that is the case.

If the dealer is willing to pay for a new engine replacement, it should be fine to purchase. Otherwise walk away. An engine will cost $10-20k for a used engine replacement.

If you do go through and get an M3 - replace the rod bearings. It is a known issue on these cars.

If you get your money back, what would you be looking to purchase? If you think you would be looking for an E9X M3, you may be better off with the repaired vehicle if it comes with a warranty. However, do some research as to what they have to repair and how they are going to do it. If they are replacing the motor, where is it coming from? Will they put in new bearings? If the motor is removed from the car, they should be replacing both rod and crank bearings. As you are in CA, there are several shops that are familiar with the S65 motor. You might even be able to negotiate your way to one of Dinan's/Carbahn (likely misspelled) rebuilt or stroked motors. But you need to make your own decision based on the best information available. So find out if it was a main bearing failure (those have been seen) and verify how the motor will be repaired. There have been others who were in your situation and didn't get the support from the seller.

[Montaver]

Might of been supercharged in the past. I'd be wary of a car with those type of mods. There are plenty of other examples out there, I would move on and find a different car.

[Jmags41]

I was feeling bad for myself a month ago when without warning my engine blew up... but this is terrible! I just hit 50k on my 2012 except it's super charged but I did the bearings at 25k with the SC install.

The more I read about other owners issues with these engines the more I think it's just dumb luck with different parts of the engine tolerances lining up on the wrong extremes.


Like others have said, be aggressive with the dealer and any warranty/replacement options.

I had a dealer purchased extended warranty on my powertrain and ended up being able to negotiate a brand new S65 vs a donor or rebuilt engine.

As others said you may be able to negotiate a stroker/rod/crank bearings but will most likely be a little out of pocket and very much out of warranty.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by dtmpower98

Hey guys,

So I need to clarify that it was not a BMW dealer. I bought a clean E92 M3 from a dealer in Los Angeles where I live. This car is clean as F***. The car has around 44k miles on it. All the carbon fiber goodies on the exterior from Arkym including the hood, trunk, and diffuser (I believe). The interior had the two tone red and black with carbon trim (including handbrake) and the BMW M-performance alcantara steering wheel as well. The car also happened to come with a full cat-back exhaust system by Mevius as well as a AFE carbon fiber intake. The vehicle was said to never have been tuned but it was a little hard to believe with so many after market modifications. I test drove the M3 before buying it made sure everything worked properly. I turned everything off and did pulls from first to second and into third on the test drive and everything felt amazing. So I got a PPI done at a BMW dealership and I was very quick to speak to the mechanic who would be inspecting my vehicle before and after he was done before he spoke to anyone from the used vehicle dealership I purchased the M3 at. The mechanic told me it fully checked out and everything was totally good, and, "if he were me he would buy it". So with the "green light" from BMW I went to the dealership with my dad and bought the vehicle. I drove the car out of the dealership with my friend on the highway for about 25 minutes. I was sure to let my M3 warm up at the dealership for like 20 minutes before I drove it home. I was gentle on the freeway but I did do a couple pulls as anyone would with their new M3. It was nothing to hard on the engine tho. I went to a exhaust shop that I have brought multiple cars too and swapped in the stock X pipe with some test pipes that were the same diameter as the stock ones. I got no check engine light when I turned her on and it was all good. I drove the car maybe another 20 minutes to my apartment in town. A couple of my buddies that I live with all followed me in their cars (Evo X & F80 M3) to my house in Malibu. I was on the freeway and I was in traffic going maybe 15 mph and my buddy was next to me in his car I was in second down shifted in first which was at like 3200 rpm. I did a small pull to like 6,500rpm and shifted into second and when I shifted the car turned off and rolled into neutral. I pulled it over and stopped the car. I turned it off and tried turning it back on but all that it did was make a click noise I believe from the ignition but did not turn. The electronics worked fine and I crossed out the idea of actuator because it didn't even respond to a jump. It was put on a flat bed and towed to the nearest BMW dealer assuming it might be something with the ECU freaking out with exhaust related malfunctions due to the deletion of cats. I soon found out when they tried to turn it over manually the engine did not crank. It was seized up they said. It was throwing no codes on the computers or anything. I didn't think it could be rod bearing related as it was driving beautifully before it shut down. There was no ticks, the idle was smooth and steady, and there was definitely no knocking noises. The car felt like it did when I test drove it at the dealer and then all of a sudden it shuts off. When I purchased the car the dealer stated on the warranty that everything on the car besides the exhaust because that was aftermarket. The warranty went on to show the engine, transmission, and drivetrain warranty of 30 days or 1,000 miles. The dealer I got it from is a really nice guy and he has paid for the tow trucks and inspections. He wanted to take the car and look at it at his shop as he has a friend who is a BMW tech and was going to work on it, he also noted they would diagnose the problem there and fix it once they did. They have been very responsive with me and have been taking care of this as fast as possible. There mechanic found that there was no metal in the oil so they are going more in depth. Do any of you know what the heck is going on?

Please help!

Get your money back and move on!!!! You don't need the headache!! You are very lucky this happened under warranty and unless you are mechanically inclined to own an E series M3 like a few of my friends whom are enthusiast mechanics that own then and have changed the bearings themselves(E60 M5 v10 included),this is not a car you want to tie your life and money up in.

Better off saving up for a newer M3 with warranty like a 2k14 or 15 and get an extended warranty. These cars get beat on!!

[M3LVIN]

See if you can pull some oil while you debate. Never know if they did the old timey "gear oil to cover engine noise" trick.

[xcusem3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Lesson learned: get a manual

This is stupid comment, come on bud

[Dave07997S]

Better off saving up for a newer M3 with warranty like a 2k14 or 15 and get an extended warranty. These cars get beat on!!

Completely different car, E9X vs. F8X car.

Dave

[GORDON.M3]

Must have been supercharged before.
Sorry to hear. Better lawyer up if they don't give you back your money!