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10-26-2013, 11:58 AM | #23 |
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If BMW offered an m3 with awd and superior performance, I wonder how many of the M purists would opt for the rwd version....serious question, as I would be on the fence as well
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10-27-2013, 02:38 PM | #24 |
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If BMW put the S63tu in the M4 and added AWD it would be very competitive with the GTR. And it wouldn't require as much R&D as starting from scratch. The reason the GTR is a loss leader for Nissan is that it's completely different from all other Nissans with almost nothing shared. BMW could really benefit from using its big engine across platforms more like MB/AMG does. I'm hopeful that they will come out with an M4 variant with the S63tu...I think it would fit easily.
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10-27-2013, 04:56 PM | #25 | |
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10-27-2013, 08:54 PM | #26 |
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I'm not an M purist, but I'd never get an AWD car for the purpose of performance. I enjoy that it takes skill to drive a RWD car fast. It's more fun, and more rewarding. Probably the same reason I'm driving a 6MT over DCT. I would't be surprised if the same people who pick DCT over 6MT for performance reasons are the same who would pick AWD over RWD if it proved to be significantly faster on and off the track.
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10-28-2013, 07:19 AM | #27 | |
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- Direct injection ("I prefer my engines carburated!") - DOHC/4 valves per cylinder/Vanos/valvetronic ("Turn off that damn valve chatter!") - Airbags ("Adds weight and ruins the interface between my face and the steering wheel!") - Complex locking diffs ("I like my diffs open and quiet, with all the power going through one wheel!") - Wide sticky tires ("You kids with all your new-tangled traction...in my day the tires were as wide as a bicycle wheel and slippery as a banana peel. What fun is going forward when you can go sideways?") - Power assist ("Wussies!") - ASC, ABS, EDC, etc etc. ("WTH!? Is this a car or alphabet soup?") For the record,with dual-clutch transmissions, you can still change the gears yourself, but you can just do it while having your hands on the wheel, which seems like a better idea. And most AWD systems have a rearward bias, so they function as a rear drive car most of the time, only shift a percentage of traction forward when they sense slippage. And most only add a small amount of weight.
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10-28-2013, 08:28 AM | #28 | |
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I'd just have a second car for my manual/RWD "fun" car. 997.2 GT3 =) |
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10-28-2013, 03:16 PM | #30 | |
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There are 2 types of people in this world. Those who want to succeed by things being handed to them and those who like the journey of working hard and earning it for themselves. Me? I like the journey.
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10-28-2013, 03:26 PM | #31 | |
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10-28-2013, 03:34 PM | #32 | |
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Last time I checked, most GTR owners drive their cars at the track with most of the nannies on. Isn't there a warranty issue related to turning all the nannies off at the track?
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10-29-2013, 10:50 PM | #33 | ||
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10-29-2013, 11:03 PM | #34 | |
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10-30-2013, 09:41 AM | #35 |
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dont forget...room for your clubs in the boot as well
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10-30-2013, 09:48 AM | #36 |
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i dont need to beat anyone to keep them away from my car and if i did a gun is easier to transport.
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10-30-2013, 12:08 PM | #37 |
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Fun thread.
BMW can't offer a GT-R competitor even though they are capable of building it with the exception of a real traction control launch program. Launch mode in DCT cars from the 335is to the M3/5/6 is a JOKE. revs to 5000 and dumps clutch while you spin tires until the car gets enough forward momentum to actually grab? That's the second fastest way to lose a race after launching the car in reverse. Anyway, BMW is already pricing themselves out of the competition with the M4 if rumours hold true. The M3 was a category killer. An S5 in both engine trims was not even made as competition, the RS5 is not really competition despite having AWD and more tq and hp. The C63 is just a loud barking tire melter that is beat by the M3 in all but straight line speed. M4 is coming up on the heels of a base Carrera which most people would prefer over a loaded M4 for many reasons even if it is likely slower. If you add AWD, there goes your neutral steering and likely F/R weight dist. You introduce understeer to a car that is magnificently steering neutral. If you bump the power to compete by raising boost, you're cannibalizing an M6 very quickly. The M4 must never be faster than the M6 in BMW's eyes. Do they simply raise M6 power? Maybe, maybe not. The car industry is backing off hp wars finally and investing in CFRP. The EPA has come in and made that decision for the auto industry. You can only get so efficient with combustion engines. Hence the turbocharging and now the diet that will hit all cars to lower weight and further increase MPG. I don't know how well M6's sell but man, that car has got to be very difficult to sell despite being a powerful and good looking car. at 128k optioned, you're in PDK Carrera 4S territory. M6 has incremental utility over a Porsche and is overall more of a compromise car. Now if you compare the M6 to an actual GT car, most people in the market to spend that kind of money are going two ways. Power and speed, or big engine and cruising comfort. The 130k buyers split off to get the CL or now the S class coupe or even SL for that luxurious comfortable and powerful ride, or they split off and go after the Porsches and Maseratis etc. So anyway, circling back, there's no need whatsoever to make a GT-R. BMW would get virtually nothing but enthusiast adoration if they created an expensive car that beats the GT-R. They can't do it cheaper because why should they? And they already have a car that costs about the same or more that can't beat it. Anything they sell to beat it would cost 160k and who'd pay that? With 160 virtually everyones getting a turbo S. |
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