Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

The dealer denied warranty. I will have to foot the bill here unfortunately as it seems.

Can you advice their reasoning for denying the work since your car is under warranty? It seems all you have is a tune and few add on parts like exhaust which many guys had.

[dreamspeed]

Complete noob question

If the tolerances are too tight, wouldn't the wearing down of the bearings eventually cause the tolerances to be opened up?

For example if you have two things rubbing up on each other wouldn't the items eventually wear down to a point where they don't touch anymore?

[FazerBoy]

Originally Posted by swifty

Can you advice their reasoning for denying the work since your car is under warranty? It seems all you have is a tune and few add on parts like exhaust which many guys had.

Do you really think BMW should replace an engine where somebody had a tune which changed some of the parameters under which the engine was designed to run??

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by FazerBoy

Do you really think BMW should replace an engine where somebody had a tune which changed some of the parameters under which the engine was designed to run??

The answer is yes ! Saw it on here more than ones and in this thread , car was tuned and covered under warranty=> new S65 !
Saw also cases when out of warranty,in the US they call it BMW goodwill !
Here in Europe they don't even know the word goodwill !
Actualy I had a good example of what I mentioned above ...
I have the clunk noise when the engine is cold,so I was sending the thread and videos of the clunk noise to them !
Guess what....they don't wanted to open the hood until my tune was removed !
And I was saying....bye bye !

[swifty]

Originally Posted by FazerBoy

Do you really think BMW should replace an engine where somebody had a tune which changed some of the parameters under which the engine was designed to run??

I was referring to the fact that few guys here had their motors replaced/rebuilt despite having a tune.

Nevertheless this is the main reason why I won't be getting one. Tune that is.

[FazerBoy]

Originally Posted by swifty

I was referring to the fact that few guys here had their motors replaced/rebuilt despite having a tune.

Nevertheless this is the main reason why I won't be getting one. Tune that is.

Yeah, BMW may not have discovered the tune in those instances or just decided to help the customer out as a goodwill gesture.

If I tuned my car and the engine broke I would try and get help from BMW but I would totally understand if they turned me away.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

In race engines its because it allows them to run far tighter clearances in parts like the pistons/bores, which otherwise might not even turn over when cold.

That's not true. Our crank pin is smaller than the M3 and we still run more clearance. Go figure
Furthermore piston/wall has nothing to do with heating the oil.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Complete noob question

If the tolerances are too tight, wouldn't the wearing down of the bearings eventually cause the tolerances to be opened up?

For example if you have two things rubbing up on each other wouldn't the items eventually wear down to a point where they don't touch anymore?

No it will only wear that one spot, it does not wear in a uniform pattern therefore still spinning the bearing in the bore

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

No it will only wear that one spot, it does not wear in a uniform pattern therefore still spinning the bearing in the bore

This was my question regarding switching to a lighter grade after wear had taken place. Would there be any effect? Does this equate to an eccentricity change?

[Obioban]

If I had an m3/warranty, I'd just flash the tune back to stock if I needed to exercise the warranty.

[aus]

Originally Posted by swifty

Can you advice their reasoning for denying the work since your car is under warranty? It seems all you have is a tune and few add on parts like exhaust which many guys had.

+1
I'd like to know what they gave as a reason too??

.

[s85e90]

You guys are really wondering why malek warranty was voided??? He owns a shop, advertises that car in alot of places including the track. All it takes is one goofball to sneak around the internet and find reasoing to deny coverage. Really sucks though.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

This was my question regarding switching to a lighter grade after wear had taken place. Would there be any effect? Does this equate to an eccentricity change?

Don't worry about eccentricity changes, if wear gets to that point, the crush has most likely gone out of the shell and it will be only a matter of time before you spin a bearing.

Even if you measure a worn shell, you will usually only notice a few tenths to a thou of thickness difference to a new one.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

In race engines its because it allows them to run far tighter clearances in parts like the pistons/bores, which otherwise might not even turn over when cold.

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

That's not true. Our crank pin is smaller than the M3 and we still run more clearance. Go figure
Furthermore piston/wall has nothing to do with heating the oil.

Its not my area of expertise (not that anything is) I'm only recalling a TV program that Vauxhall did covering this very issue with their touring cars engines - a sort of why do we preheat the oil/coolant sort of thing and thats what they said. I think it is also discussed in a similar way on the F1technical forum.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by s85e90

You guys are really wondering why malek warranty was voided??? He owns a shop, advertises that car in alot of places including the track. All it takes is one goofball to sneak around the internet and find reasoing to deny coverage. Really sucks though.

If tracking voids the warranty, ///M has lost all meaning

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by Obioban

If tracking voids the warranty, ///M has lost all meaning

Seriously. Good luck finding a marketing picture of the M3 where it's not on the track.

[foolio2]

When my engine blew, I had a long conversation with BMWNA about "tracking". They assured me that this was encouraged and what the car is designed for. I literally told them I was going to drive the piss out of this car on the track. They said I would always be covered as long as it was not a timed or competitive event.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

The dealer denied warranty. I will have to foot the bill here unfortunately as it seems.

Sorry mate Be very curious under what circumstances. Mine is flashed 240E by dealer and a cat back (Super Sprint F1 race). Otherwise stock motor (exception for suspension, brakes).

Hopefully we can learn from you on this (on how not to get warranty voided) perhaps?

Thanks again Malek.

Lutfy

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Obioban

If tracking voids the warranty, ///M has lost all meaning

Yes, but when the EVO and STI came out they also had commercials and literature with them doing rally events and Mitsu used to deny cars like it was their job to do so.

Originally Posted by Rupes

Seriously. Good luck finding a marketing picture of the M3 where it's not on the track.

Right on, but even the manual states that if racing, warranty may be gone.

Originally Posted by foolio2

When my engine blew, I had a long conversation with BMWNA about "tracking". They assured me that this was encouraged and what the car is designed for. I literally told them I was going to drive the piss out of this car on the track. They said I would always be covered as long as it was not a timed or competitive event.

Yeah good luck; when push comes to shove, they won't remember your name.


People it says clear as day in the manual where talking about prepping the car for competitive use. Yes it can handle being raced, but the warranty may be given up as well as the maintenance plan if heavy tracking is to blame.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I think you will find its the other way round.
The Castrol is fully synthetic with ester content.
IIRC the USA Mobil 1 0W40 is "fully synthetic" but contains some conventional oil as a carrier for the add pack.

Porsches used to run on Shell, now its Mobil because that is the contract they have, OEM usage signifies nothing.
10W60 is equally spec'ed for some Ferraris, Lambos (including the one make race series) and other high end models.

I probably added 2 ltrs over 15k miles...thats not going to make much difference.
Check out the oil analysis thread, it has loads of 10W60 viscosity readings at various mileages, the majority of them are around 18.

In race engines its because it allows them to run far tighter clearances in parts like the pistons/bores, which otherwise might not even turn over when cold.

First off, to deal with the oils, group III oil technology has come far enough in the last 10 years that many group III oils have superior VI #'s than many fully synthetic group VI & V oils.

Second, if an engine were so tight that need to be pre-heated to turn over the friction would sap up a huge amount of power and said engine would be a ticking time bomb.

As a rule race engines are built looser than road engines where rings are considered because of their short service life and lack of emissions control devices that can't handle engine oil contamination. Secondly, since noise is not an issue on race engines a little extra clearance won't matter since a a little noise on startup won't bother a race team.

# 1 reason for warming up oil or running a lighter oil is to protect bearings first and second to ensure the top end gets oil as soon as possible.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

First off, to deal with the oils, group III oil technology has come far enough in the last 10 years that many group III oils have superior VI #'s than many fully synthetic group VI & V oils.

Fully synthetic base oils flow better when cold, heat up quicker and have better thermal stability.

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Second, if an engine were so tight that need to be pre-heated to turn over the friction would sap up a huge amount of power and said engine would be a ticking time bomb.

As a rule race engines are built looser than road engines where rings are considered because of their short service life and lack of emissions control devices that can't handle engine oil contamination. Secondly, since noise is not an issue on race engines a little extra clearance won't matter since a a little noise on startup won't bother a race team.

# 1 reason for warming up oil or running a lighter oil is to protect bearings first and second to ensure the top end gets oil as soon as possible.

I guess we are talking slightly cross purposes.
Here is a video showing the warm up procedure for an F1 engine and covers the points I was making.

[blankstar43]

Originally Posted by blankstar43

[u2b]

[/u2b]

Well I may be having a bearing issue as well. Started hearing a slight tick a couple weeks ago but it went away. It now seems to be back again and increases in frequency with revs. It isn't as loud or obvious as some videos I've watched, but here is my video of it.

2012 e92 m3, completely stock, 42,827 miles, oil changes done every 6-8k miles or so. Probably around 16 track days with plenty of spirited driving on the street. Car is babied until oil is up to operating temp.

I have also attached my last oil analysis. Just changed my oil a few weeks ago and am awaiting the latest analysis that I'll share when it is done.

Well the road trip went fine and I haven't had any issues. Ticking noise is still present and hasn't changed since the posted video as far as I can tell. I also got back my most recent oil analysis from Blackstone which appears to be good. I am posting it here as well. Maybe its not bearings on my car after all??