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07-27-2007, 06:29 PM | #23 |
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You're dead on. Right now, in the best of road conditions the e92 will barely pull on an RS4. But when the roads are bad the M3 doesn't have a prayer. The RS4 chassis is quite old and is a pig. Audi owners admit that. But you've gotta admit, it's holding it's own against BMW's best. The A5/S5/RS5 chassis is a completely new design. It's lighter, better balanced and has a lower CG. It will be interesting to see what it will do with the RS4 V8 and two small turbos. 450 HP conservative, but with a few tweeks, 500+ HP with 400 lb-ft of torque should be doable. And, unlike the M3, Quattro can put all of that power to the ground.
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07-27-2007, 06:36 PM | #24 |
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As low as Audi make the CoG and how balanced they try and make their chassis, it is still inherently a FWD chassis, so therefore, inferior to BMW's.
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07-27-2007, 06:42 PM | #25 | |
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Bollocks |
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07-27-2007, 06:50 PM | #26 | |
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The A5/S5/RS5 is designed to be an AWD chassis, and has different dynamics than a RWD chassis, that is true. Superiority really depends on the road circumstances. I'll be happy to race you and your "superior" M3 against my RS4 on a wet road (or track) any day, and see which posts the better times. I also know that on a good dry track, you'll most likely take me. In absolute perfect conditions, you win. In any other conditions, I win. |
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07-27-2007, 07:01 PM | #27 |
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07-27-2007, 07:03 PM | #28 | |
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I'm sorry to say but you have been talking rubbish if not saying stupid things. Go drive your beemer motorcycle and when you have the money for a real bimmer car like the M3 and when you get your facts strait maybe we will listen to you. Cheers!
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07-27-2007, 07:19 PM | #29 | |
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I don't understand where you guys get your info from. The RS4 although a B7 platform is nothing more then a B6 with a new body as are all B7s. They have one big thing in common their chassis, the 8E chassis which is now 7 years old not the 2 1/2 figure that we see thrown around all the time! So even if I love the E46 M3, one of my favourite cars, the new E92 M3 according to a lot of test drives so far can barely beat the RS4 in pure performance and indeed cannot even match it on bad or slippery roads. This from a car with a very powerful motor and a brand new chassis versus a car with an equally powerful motor but with a seven years old chassis which rides on a DRC suspension which IMHO is a detriment to this car. You bimmer folks better hope the RS5 is not any better than the currant RS4 for your sakes. It is highly doubtful that Audi would make any RS car perform less than their regular cars.
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07-27-2007, 08:39 PM | #30 | |
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Re: all the weight talk.... the E92 and the RS4 are basically with in 100 lbs of each other irregardless of where your get your weights from despite the fact that: 1) The RS4 has 4 doors and the M3 has 2 doors 2) The M3 has a carbon fiber roof 3) The RS4 has AWD Despite ALL that your precious E92 still only weighs about 100 lbs less than the RS4 and would only hold a torch to the RS4 in PERFECT conditions. In anything other than perfect conditions, you can forget about it. LOL Sorry but the RS5 is going to absolutely make you cry. It'll have 2 doors (weight reduction right there), & more HP. We don't even know the rest of the details as of yet. If anything I must give it up to the BMW marketing division. They really know how to brainwash you guys. Apparently they've gotten you to the point where anyone that says anything remotely negative against the M3 is a troll, even if they've owned or currently own an E46. Now that you're done reading this, feel free to resume to the cheerleading that takes place in virtually every thread on this forum. |
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07-27-2007, 08:42 PM | #31 | |
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those who are saying the RS4 is the better performer, or even really close, to the e92 M3 have yet to submit any factual data to back it up - just reviews complaining about steering/brakes/etc. in reality the e92 M3's performance is right up there with the R8. i'd love to be proven wrong, but nobody has been able to yet.
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07-27-2007, 08:52 PM | #32 | |
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your 2-door theory doesn't work either. bmw managed to produce a 2-dor and 4-door variant of the e36 M3 both of which weighed about the same. same situation with the 4-door and 2-door 335...about the same weight. just because a car is 2-door or 4-door does not mean one is significantly heavier than the other, then again maybe it's that way in the audi world.
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07-27-2007, 09:06 PM | #33 | |
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And based on the A4/S4/RS4 line vs A5/S5/RS5 line weights above, there is a difference of about 200 lbs in favor of the 2 door cars. |
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07-27-2007, 09:08 PM | #34 | |
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another example is that the euro 335 weighs about the same as the US spec 335.
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07-27-2007, 09:29 PM | #35 | |
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I am clearly saying that the yet-to-be released 2 door BMW can barely keep up with a 4 door Audi that is 2.5 years old. And then I go on to say that it would seem that the M3 has no hope of beating the RS5 when Audi's had 3 to 4 years to imrpove on the RS4 that the M3 is pretty equal to. While I am still planning on purchasing the M3, I am less than enthused with the reviews and comparisons to this point.
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07-27-2007, 10:06 PM | #36 | |
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It is remarkable to me that the new M3 cannot out class it or out perform it by more then what we have seen so far as reported by several magazines with very good reputations. The new chassis coming out this fall (A5/S5) should make the new Audis even better in the handling department. With apparently the motor moved back 4 inches, a lower centre of gravity, lower weight (?) and more rearward bias on the AWD system this could finally take away the handling edge BMWs always had on Audis. Time will tell.
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07-27-2007, 10:18 PM | #37 |
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There have been NO test comparisons of the NEW M3.
There have been first drive comparisons. Only Car and Driver have used test equipment to retrieve performance data to date and the numbers are much better then BMW themselves quoted. The numbers actually match those of the R8. Is the RS5 going to match the performance numbers of the R8? If so, will Audi match the price of the RS5 to the R8 ? So all the talk of the RS4 being neck and neck with the New M3 is . . . . well penis envy ! You PRO Audi guys that show up on BMW forums to argue about how Audi is so much better the BMW should really rethink your strategy. If it were better you wouldn't have to go and tell the competition they would already know. |
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07-27-2007, 10:39 PM | #38 | |
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07-27-2007, 10:42 PM | #39 | |
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07-27-2007, 10:47 PM | #40 | |
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And, maybe, just maybe it'll be able to outpace a 335i on a racetrack - something the RS4 has difficulty with. |
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07-27-2007, 10:53 PM | #41 | |
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I don't know where you guys get your information, but BMW's competitors are not still in the 1990's, where you seem to think they are. Performance developments do happen outside of Bavaria. Funny thing, Audi introduced DI engines to racing, introduced DI engines into production, and then introduced a high performance DI engine before BMW. You seem to have a real problem with facts. And the fact of the matter is that the RS4 is currently a close match to the M3, and Audi will not sit still. You claim that the new M3 is better than the RS4. Well it damn well better be. By the time it reaches the US market, it will FOLLOW the RS4 by 2 to 2 1/2 years. The RS4 will have been in the US for 2 years before BMW catches up. In that amount of time you should expect the M3 to be light years better. That it is only marginally better is a disappointment. Audi showed that it could produce a production engine with the same performance as any BMW, and use that same engine across the entire product line. The FSI V8 is a testament to this. In the RS5, Audi will most likely return to it's turbocharged roots, placing that same V8 engine in a more-worthy chassis, and add twin turbos to it. Nothing that BMW currently makes will stand a chance. BMW will again be in FOLLOW mode. Stock the RS5 engine will smoke the M3 S65 engine. But modified, the RS5 engine will dwarf the S65. If you don't think so, you don't know Audi. |
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07-27-2007, 11:00 PM | #42 | |
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07-27-2007, 11:08 PM | #43 | |
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Jet and I would both agree that the M3 has the potential for being an exceptional car. I'd love to have one myself, for dry days on exceptional roads. But, for the first time in M3 history, you have to agree that the M3 has a worthy competitor in the RS4 AND a potential worthy follow-on competitor in the RS5. Trust me, the RS4 involves the driver when pushed. It also signals it's intentions quite well. I know that from experience at Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. At the same time, it's also an exceptionally smooth and comfortable cruising machine, capable of long family trips. And ... my dog loves to ride in the back seat! What more could I want? From my perspective, the good news is that there is real competition. This is good for every one of us, because BMW, Audi and Merc will respond to the competition with better products than they would have in it's absence. And ... I truly look forward to the day the BMW introduces the M3 CSL in the US, because I truly expect it will be an awesome automobile. |
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07-27-2007, 11:24 PM | #44 | |||
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