BMW adds 5w30 to M engines oil list

[dparm]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

This is exactly what was told to me by BMW Australia. Change the oil very 5-6k km and use 10w-60 and you will not have any issue. Given our warm climate using 10w-60 is not a real issue. In fact, Penrite, a local oil company is offering higher viscosity oil because of the extremely hot conditions in Australia.

Also in my recent oil analysis it was reported, the viscosity was 20.49 @ 100 c which is lower than claimed by Castrol at the same temp. Interesting, because I had done only 4k km with that oil. Although it's marginal, it would be good to see how much it drops if you run BMW's recommended oil change interval.

5000km is WAY too soon unless you are doing 100% short trips and never letting the oil come up to temperature. The M3 has a very big sump that can tolerate that sort of thing, and modern oils are quite resilient in that regard too....so really, unless you have money to burn, don't change it after only 5000km.

7500mi/12000km is attainable for most people based on the analyses posted to this site. 8-9000mi is not unreasonable either if you are on the highway with any regularity.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by fbm3cab

Does anyone know what BMW uses in the S65 for the break in oil, Is it the TWS or is it thicker/thinner?

Conflicting reports. I've seen information that it's a rather simple conventional 5w30, but others have indicated it's TWS.

Regardless, the 1200 mile change is a safety precaution to get any break-in metals out soon.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by dparm

5000km is WAY too soon unless you are doing 100% short trips and never letting the oil come up to temperature. The M3 has a very big sump that can tolerate that sort of thing, and modern oils are quite resilient in that regard too....so really, unless you have money to burn, don't change it after only 5000km.

7500mi/12000km is attainable for most people based on the analyses posted to this site. 8-9000mi is not unreasonable either if you are on the highway with any regularity.

Mine are mainly short trips, and although it's 5k km, it is 12-month intervals. Given our weather conditions it is advisable and also the short trips. Yes, I get the temp to operating each time I drive, but not for very long. I do get your point.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by W///

Part of the cold start sequence is still active. I know you probably turned off the higher rev with your tune, but I know mine bucked too. I've got the newest tune and that's now gone.

Here in SC, our summers are as hot as what you guys get and I can assure you 0W40 acted exactly the same as 10W60. I know you are dead set on using TWS, but just FYI.

And are you talking about the RPM limit or oil temp? Our winters, the weather is almost 0C, so makes even sense to run TWS as far as I'm concerned.

Mobil 0w-40 is $100 per 5l container and an oil change will set me back $250 whereas, 10l TWS with filter will cost me $180.

Also given that I have brought the oil issue up with BMW, and if and when I have a failure, the first thin they might opt for is an oil analysis, and using anything but TWS will kill my chances of even getting a goodwill.

Also BMW has categorically said no to thinner oils.

What's perplexing is, that only BMW NA has recommended an alternate oil to TWS whereas the rest of the world is sticking with TWS. Interesting.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Mobil 0w-40 is $100 per 5l container and an oil change will set me back $250 whereas, 10l TWS with filter will cost me $180.

Also given that I have brought the oil issue up with BMW, and if and when I have a failure, the first thin they might opt for is an oil analysis, and using anything but TWS will kill my chances of even getting a goodwill.

Also BMW has categorically said no to thinner oils.

What's perplexing is, that only BMW NA has recommended an alternate oil to TWS whereas the rest of the world is sticking with TWS. Interesting.

Yes, we're a tad spoiled with the Mobil 1 pricing in the US. I can get a quart of it for $5.50 pretty much any day of the year, sometimes as low as $4. You could very easily run the other LL-01 oils if they cost less (SynPower 5w40, Edge 0w40/5w40, Helix Ultra 5w40, etc).

Almost all the car companies have stuck with heavier oils in the hot climates, though it really isn't necessary for a water-cooled car.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by dparm

Yes, we're a tad spoiled with the Mobil 1 pricing in the US. I can get a quart of it for $5.50 pretty much any day of the year, sometimes as low as $4. You could very easily run the other LL-01 oils if they cost less (SynPower 5w40, Edge 0w40/5w40, Helix Ultra 5w40, etc).

Almost all the car companies have stuck with heavier oils in the hot climates, though it really isn't necessary for a water-cooled car.

Castrol Edge 0w-40 is AUD80 and Castrol Edge 10w-60 is AUD90 respectively. This the retail price at any auto shop. And guess what, the retail packaging of 10w-60 doesn't mention any parallel approvals, but 0w-40 has LL-01 and VW approvals listed. Even TWS doesn't mention LL-01 except saying approved for BMW M Sport M3/M5/M8.

It's like buying gold by the litre.

[DATM3]

I bought 10 Quarts for 56$ and changed to Mobil 1 0W40 oil yesterday from Walmart. I sent out to Blackstone my last 10W60 oil. Hopefully I will see some better bearing wear on my next oil report. I can notice my rear wheels breaking loose a little easier up top and my normal operating temperature is now below the 210F line while with 10W60 it was above the 210F line.

[Ronnydashore]

Anyone do a dyno of 0w40 vs TWS just to see how much power gain there is by decreasing parasitic pumping losses? I would venture a 10-15 hp gain.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ronnydashore

Anyone do a dyno of 0w40 vs TWS just to see how much power gain there is by decreasing parasitic pumping losses? I would venture a 10-15 hp gain.

Might be hard to measure, as the margin of error on a dyno can be substantial. Even 3% on the S65 is 12hp.

[Leonardo629]

Doesn't your S65 now just rev effortlessly? It almost feel like it can rev another 1000rpm since 8400rpm is not even straining the motor.

Originally Posted by aznboi319

I bought 10 Quarts for 56$ and changed to Mobil 1 0W40 oil yesterday from Walmart. I sent out to Blackstone my last 10W60 oil. Hopefully I will see some better bearing wear on my next oil report. I can notice my rear wheels breaking loose a little easier up top and my normal operating temperature is now below the 210F line while with 10W60 it was above the 210F line.

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

Doesn't your S65 now just rev effortlessly? It almost feel like it can rev another 1000rpm since 8400rpm is not even straining the motor.

Yes, it feels much better than before at high RPMs. I am still not used to the oil temps being cooler than the 10W60. I haven't broken the 210 temps yet on this oil. I will be taking my car to the dyno this Thursday to see if my butt dyno is as accurate as a dynojet.

[PandaM3]

I've searched the Internet and couldn't find the specs for the

CASTROL EDGE
PROFESSIONAL BMW LL01 5W-30

Specifically I want to know the HTHS so I can compare to Mobil 1's 0w40 HTHS.

So far all I have found was regular castrol edge 5w30 rwhich shows an HTHS of much less the 3.5...

If it really castrol is really less than 3.5 then Mobil 1 0w40 with hths of 3.8 can be used with confidence

For comparison Castrol 10w60 has an HTHS of 5.2 which probably drops down to 4 after long oil change intervals

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

I've searched the Internet and couldn't find the specs for the

CASTROL EDGE
PROFESSIONAL BMW LL01 5W-30

Specifically I want to know the HTHS so I can compare to Mobil 1's 0w40 HTHS.

So far all I have found was regular castrol edge 5w30 rwhich shows an HTHS of much less the 3.5...

If it really castrol is really less than 3.5 then Mobil 1 0w40 with hths of 3.8 can be used with confidence

For comparison Castrol 10w60 has an HTHS of 5.2 which probably drops down to 4 after long oil change intervals

Just look for German castrol 0-30, same stuff.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

I've searched the Internet and couldn't find the specs for the

CASTROL EDGE
PROFESSIONAL BMW LL01 5W-30

Specifically I want to know the HTHS so I can compare to Mobil 1's 0w40 HTHS.

So far all I have found was regular castrol edge 5w30 rwhich shows an HTHS of much less the 3.5...

If it really castrol is really less than 3.5 then Mobil 1 0w40 with hths of 3.8 can be used with confidence

For comparison Castrol 10w60 has an HTHS of 5.2 which probably drops down to 4 after long oil change intervals

It is 3.5

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/327FECC588E3ADE480257AD3003FBDCB/$File/PDS%20CCSA%20Castrol%20EDGE%20Professional%20OE%20 5W-30%20English.pdf

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by Billj747

It is 3.5

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/327FECC588E3ADE480257AD3003FBDCB/$File/PDS%20CCSA%20Castrol%20EDGE%20Professional%20OE%20 5W-30%20English.pdf

odd... link doesn't work...

anyhow, if it is really 3.5 then castrol 5w30 is the minimum oil that can be used... but it further proves that that spec sheet for Mobil 1 0w40 makes it a good choice for the M3

[dparm]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

odd... link doesn't work...

anyhow, if it is really 3.5 then castrol 5w30 is the minimum oil that can be used... but it further proves that that spec sheet for Mobil 1 0w40 makes it a good choice for the M3

3.5 is the minimum value for an ACEA A3/B4 or LL-01 oil. It is likely higher -- maybe 3.6 or 3.7. Castrol is unfortunately very had about publishing key data like HTHSV, and calling/emailing will not get you the answer either.

Here is the spec sheet:
http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/10...85_2011_10.pdf

[dparm]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Just look for German castrol 0-30, same stuff.

It is not the same oil at all. The specifications are totally different -- just look at the datasheets if you don't believe me.

GC is, frankly, an outdated and subpar oil by today's standards. 5 years ago it was quite good, but it hasn't been updated in a long time and has since been surpassed by some of Castrol's own products (and the competitors').

[0_to_60]

im out of warranty and need to change my oil. Im going to try out m1 0-40. If you drive this car hard, im guessing i wouldnt have any problems?

[0_to_60]

Also would 0-40 burn more oil or vice versa?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 0_to_60

im out of warranty and need to change my oil. Im going to try out m1 0-40. If you drive this car hard, im guessing i wouldnt have any problems?

Originally Posted by 0_to_60

Also would 0-40 burn more oil or vice versa?

You'll be fine with M1 0w40 -- it is a streetable race oil. Consumption may go up slightly, so be sure to check the oil once a week (like you're already supposed to be doing).

[Z K]

Here's a chart comparing viscosity of a lot of -w40 oils that might be useful.

Comparing M1 0w40 to Redline 0w40, looks like Redline flows just as well (same viscosity) at start up as M1 but offers higher viscosity at operating temperature. M1 stays thinner at operating temp.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Z K

Here's a chart comparing viscosity of a lot of -w40 oils that might be useful.

Comparing M1 0w40 to Redline 0w40, looks like Redline flows just as well (same viscosity) at start up as M1 but offers higher viscosity at operating temperature. M1 stays thinner at operating temp.

Nice, but you need to extend that chart past 212 F. The oil gets much warmer than that under track conditions, and even in the bearings under normal street driving -- hence my insistence that the HTHSV is the better indicator of operational viscosity.

Also, the old adage goes, "thin as possible, but as thick as necessary".