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      12-02-2014, 10:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
I do. ST-40 with race pads (RS29s for me) up front and a race or even hybrid (stoptech sp) rear pad on the stock caliper is more than most will need. Been a great setup for me. Start with this setup and upgrade the rear if you find insufficient.
Is there such a thing as more than you need for brakes? Just need tires that can handle it!
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      12-03-2014, 06:27 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Is there such a thing as more than you need for brakes? Just need tires that can handle it!
Too much and you might hurt your neck. It's a safety issue, plus they kill momentum.
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      12-03-2014, 07:05 AM   #91
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I'm surprised that 'K-SPORT' did better than Brembo in this test!!!
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      12-03-2014, 09:16 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Too much and you might hurt your neck. It's a safety issue, plus they kill momentum.
Brakes just slow you down!

Adding unsprung, rotating weight to the car when it's not necessary isn't the best way to spend a buck if you care about performance either. One of the reasons I went with the STR40 instead of the ST60 was the cost was about the same but I got to drop ~12 pounds instead of 5. The 380mm kits do look cool though, and I bet on a street car that doesn't get tracked they'd go 100,000 miles
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      12-03-2014, 09:28 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Too much and you might hurt your neck. It's a safety issue, plus they kill momentum.
Brakes just slow you down!

Adding unsprung, rotating weight to the car when it's not necessary isn't the best way to spend a buck if you care about performance either. One of the reasons I went with the STR40 instead of the ST60 was the cost was about the same but I got to drop ~12 pounds instead of 5. The 380mm kits do look cool though, and I bet on a street car that doesn't get tracked they'd go 100,000 miles
On the street those rotors would be probably be good for a decade and 200k+ miles. I'm having a hard time killing my 355mm rotors on my E46.
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      12-03-2014, 09:48 AM   #94
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On the street those rotors would be probably be good for a decade and 200k+ miles. I'm having a hard time killing my 355mm rotors on my E46.
Get more destructive pads. I'm passed half used on my 355s.
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      12-03-2014, 05:57 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
On the street those rotors would be probably be good for a decade and 200k+ miles. I'm having a hard time killing my 355mm rotors on my E46.
Get more destructive pads. I'm passed half used on my 355s.
My buddy runs Pagid yellows and he seems to have made it down to min thickness much quicker than me.
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      12-03-2014, 07:36 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
My buddy runs Pagid yellows and he seems to have made it down to min thickness much quicker than me.
Are you still on sr34s? I'm using cobalts now since your connection seems unavailable.
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      12-03-2014, 07:57 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
My buddy runs Pagid yellows and he seems to have made it down to min thickness much quicker than me.
Are you still on sr34s? I'm using cobalts now since your connection seems unavailable.
Plan to be. $292 from Zeckhausen.
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      12-03-2014, 09:51 PM   #98
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Well...This escalated quickly
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      12-03-2014, 11:16 PM   #99
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Well...This escalated quickly
It did? Seems tame.
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      12-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
It did? Seems tame.
Should have also included my "insert sarcasm" here...were talking about brakes man...
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      12-05-2014, 03:44 AM   #101
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Short video added to their FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=890428987647521
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      12-05-2014, 11:48 AM   #102
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^^^Judging by that car, looks like they definitely look like they don't know how to bleed brakes properly amirite?
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      12-05-2014, 01:07 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed Motorsports View Post
^^^Judging by that car, looks like they definitely look like they don't know how to bleed brakes properly amirite?
????
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      12-05-2014, 04:12 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
I'm not able to read the article, but a few questions come to mind immediately:

-Did these journalists install the same brake pad compound in each kit? It looks like some kits are using Pagid RS29 pads and others are using a different pad.

-Did these journalists measure any other parameters than stopping distance?


A few things to consider:

-Stopping distance is largely a test of pad compound, and less so a test of the design of the brake caliper or rotor. An excellent compound in the original BMW brakes can produce a very low stopping distance, provided that the tires have enough grip to operate up to the compound's ability.

-Brake calipers and rotors are upgraded to increase their thermal capacity, not their one-time stopping distance. The key is not what the brake system can do once, rather the question is what consistency does the brake system offer over time?

Most E9x M3 owners that drive their cars quickly around the track have noticed that even with an excellent brake pad compound (which does provide better stopping distance), the original BMW E9x M3 brakes will eventually fade and fail with hard use.

This test does not appear to test brake operating temperature over time, nor does it seem to graphically represent performance (brake fade or lack thereof). This test also shows several of the brake kits loaded with Pagid's RS29 pads (an excellent track brake pad), and the other kits loaded with other pads (I am assuming Ferodo FM1000 for the Brembo kit, and stock for the BMW kit).

For an empirical test I would have loaded all of the brake calipers with a high performance pad like the RS29, and logged brake fade in some way.

As-is, even the stopping distance test conducted here is of no use. The data is not accurate due to the inconsistency in pad compound.
I think you guys do amazing work and so without meaning to offend I don't think your opinion as a Brembo retailer can't possibly be unbiased. I won't argue that without the exact same pads you can't necessarily call this a perfect test BUT it is a great test of what the typical consumer will get when they buy one of these kits off the shelf. As an owner of a StopTech system I am also impossibly unbiased. I do think that people (myself included) typically think that the most expensive is the best...more R&D, better design, materials, etc. And we all want what we own (or sell) to be regarded as the best option (confirmation bias). I've always regarded Brembo as a top shelf product and still do...but these results don't paint the best picture of their off the shelf product as tested against these others.

My flawed and biased 2 cents.
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      12-05-2014, 11:34 PM   #105
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Quote:
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????
I was being sarcastic
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      12-06-2014, 07:58 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed Motorsports View Post
I was being sarcastic
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      12-06-2014, 10:03 AM   #107
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I would think that they just used a front BBK in all of the tests seeing how I didn't see the rear wheels off at any point. Personally, I would bleed all 4 wheels if I just opened up even 1 line. But nonetheless...if I am right then I would expect Stoptech to perform the best. The others are probably designed to have an upgraded rear brake system. If that's the case then it would cause the front wheels to lock up well before the rear wheels and activate the ABS. From the video...ABS is clearly engaging in the one shot of the front wheel coming to a stop indicated by the tire noise.

ABS activation increases stopping distances.

Let's look at Stoptech. They market their BBKs to provide balanced braking. So their BBKs are designed as a front only or 4 wheel kit. They aren't hesitant to let you know that they are the only company to do this and it provides a performance advantage.

So if the Stoptech kit maintains a more optimal brake balance then the Stoptech kit should activate the ABS less and shorten the stopping distance.

So Brembo owners and vendors can now stop the stream of tears and resume your normal Brembo superiority campaign (joke and sarcasm...all should laugh at this point).
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      12-06-2014, 10:28 AM   #108
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I wish there was a translation of the article....fitting brand new tyres for each BBK initially seems to rule them out of the equation but are they scrubbing off a mm or so to square up the tread and remove any trace of release compound to make sure each set is identical? Plus tyre and track surface temps play a large role in how much grip the tyre can generate - are they measuring these variables?
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      12-06-2014, 01:48 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
ABS activation increases stopping distances.

So if the Stoptech kit maintains a more optimal brake balance then the Stoptech kit should activate the ABS less and shorten the stopping distance.
ABS does NOT increase stopping distances... Perhaps apart from the very early systems that had fairly slow reaction/pulsation.

ABS on modern cars (like at least the last 10-15 years) is able to keep the tire at optimum slip, or as close to that as possible. This is where friction is at it's highest and provides shorter stopping distances. Much shorter stopping distance and higher friction than a locked tire can manage...

http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions....rochure_de.pdf
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      12-06-2014, 02:53 PM   #110
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The shortest stopping distance is achieved with a trained driver (usually a pro) doing threshold braking. That's how it's done in F1, for instance. For everyone else there's ABS.

We don't know if the car in the test is using a special ABS calibration. Most street calibrations won't get the best out of RComps or slicks, for instance. If you're running RComps and you have the right ABS calibration, you can pretty much do threshold braking - the ABS will hold off until things are well past that point. Street calibrations aren't so forgiving, and they'll kick in earlier.
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